Ronnie Landis: Welcome to the holistic life mastery podcast. I’m your host Ronnie Landis. And yet again, we have another incredible conversation with a luminary, a legend and a total expert in her field. And she is an expert in multiple fields when it comes to holistic health. In this episode is, is really extraordinary.

Actually. I just listened to the whole thing as I was going through the edits and getting ready to record this intro. And we go so far down the rabbit hole of multiple topics that neither one of us expected to traverse. And I’m so happy we did because these are topics that both of us have deep experience in and have never really talked about on this podcast.

So I’m really grateful that me and my friend and colleague Nadine Artemis decided to spelunk headfirst into the rabbit hole. And this is the third time that I’ve had Nadine on the podcast. If you don’t know who she is, she is one of the leading experts in natural organic beauty. and also oral and teeth health.

And she has two incredible books. One of them is called Renegade Health and the other one is Holistic Dentistry. I have it over there on my table. And she is also the founder of a company called Living Libations. Living Libations is by far my favorite Um, organic beauty, skincare, essential oil, oral teeth, microbiome, health enhancing product line.

And I will only use them, no I’m not going to say I’ll only use them, there’s other products I use here and there, but they are by far my favorite when it comes to natural beauty and oral care products, livinglibations. com And Nadine is a wealth of knowledge in so many different areas. This conversation was kind of like catching up.

We hadn’t talked in about four years. We come from the same background in the holistic health world. You know, way back in the Superfood, raw food herbalism, uh, cacao, David Wolf days. And, you know, we’ve done a number of podcasts, like I mentioned, but we haven’t talked in about four years. So the first part of the episode is just us kind of catching up on the events of 2020 all the way up to now getting ready for 2024.

And then at some point in the conversation, we just turn a corner. And the floodgates just open up and some of the things that we get into is just the changing of the health culture over the last decade that we’ve witnessed, you know, really prioritizing self care as a top priority in our life. And then we also go very deep into the different problems with the plant based diet.

We both have been, um, vegan, vegetarian, raw foodist for well over a decade in our personal journeys. We talk a lot about our experiences. We also talk about Um, our journey of reincorporating meat and high grade animal products and the undeniable benefits that that has had on our life. And also what we’ve seen in the holistic health field as dietary trends have been shifting.

We also get deep into biohacking secrets and then Nate Dean goes on this whole track, which is basically a masterclass in oral teeth health. We also go very deep. into this thing on oxalate toxicity oxalic acid or oxalates, which is a huge topic over the last few years and I’m not even gonna try to like explain or describe what the conversation was like let’s just say that this is one of the most important health conversations that you’re ever gonna listen to and I highly recommend listening from start to finish you will get so much valuable information and and practical tips to know what to do with it.

I even got so much for myself and began implementing changes in my own oral care strategy. So anyways, without further ado, enjoy the conversation with Nadine Artemis. Nadine Artemis, welcome to the holistic life mastery show. 

Nadine Artemis: Hi, I’m so happy to be here with you. 

Ronnie Landis: So happy to have you here. And, uh, as you know, this is the third time that we’ve done a podcast together and it’s, I don’t know exactly how long it’s been, but it feels like it’s been at least, at least four years, because three years ago, it was sometime in 2020.

As we were just kind of backtracking a little bit before the recording. And so it’s, it’s been at least four years since we’ve, we’ve connected on one of these podcasts. And there’s so much that has, uh, manifested in our world, micro and macro in these last three to four years. And It’s almost hard to know exactly where to go right out the gate.

There’s a lot of things that I want to dive into with you as far as your work and in organic beauty. And, um, I definitely want to get into some things that have to do with like respiratory health, oral health, microbiome health, um, you know, some of these classic topics. But I feel like there’s also like a catching up that I want to do with you.

And maybe for any of the audience, that’s really familiar with your work. Um, I’d love to get a sense of like, what, what have you been up to in the last couple of years? Um, if anything is, is different than, than has been kind of your, your, your purpose and your mission all these years. 

Nadine Artemis: That’s a great question.

I don’t know if anything’s like, obviously everything’s different. You can’t step into the same stream twice, but. I feel like it’s really, there’s a lot that’s the same. It’s just like deeper, you know, in the depth of things, more subjects that I was already like into. And so there’s a deepening, I guess, always of the sort of breadth of knowledge and the activities and like just diving into life.

And other than that, I mean, just been on the homestead, so to speak. Obviously couldn’t travel too much, um, at some, some peaks of the pandemic. So normally we do go away for about a month, a year in the winter. So it was kind of good. I didn’t go away for like 33 months. I did not leave the land, but that was kind of good in another way, a bit of an intermission.

And then was able to just do a, just really focus on all the beauty and depth here. Um, In 2013, we had like a massive fire where we lost. Like everything, so to speak. Um, and so I’m just been so thankful that we had been rebuilding and sort of like, you know, having our own Phoenix rise out of the ashes of 2013.

And then 2016 to 2018, we, um, started, we were about to start our headquarters, uh, just before the fire, but that delayed it. And anyway, so we ended up building, you You know, our new headquarters at last. So we’re very thankful to have this really state of the art revolutionary, um, innovative in a lot of environmental ways building that houses us and, you know, I designed it to totally, you know, Take us through how we create formulas and what, you know, how we want to work and all of that.

So I was glad, so glad of that. And we had this great party and celebration in 2019, not knowing, you know, just a few months later that we would be in the middle of the pandemic, but so, so thankful to not be in the middle of a massive construction job, because that would have just, that would have, That would not have been fun.

And then we had this great, you know, pristine and spacious building where we already had, like, you know, our air filtration already got was already, like, getting filtered, like, four times and I don’t know, you know, just all this great stuff. So I really, I’m so thankful that we’ve been like, properly housed in our headquarters since that time.

So that’s been, um, you know, deepening the work there and, uh, you know, just deepening the projects we have on our land. and raising a boy who’s a teen now. 

So 

definitely lots to keep busy, you know, new, new products, new creations, new research. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting for me. I’m, I’m backtracking over the last, um, 10 or 11 years and, you know, we, You and I and many of our friends and soul family and peers and contemporaries.

Um, you know, we, we all go back to like the David Wolf days or like the longevity conferences, like the kind of heyday of the super food, tonic, herbal, raw food. Momentum wave, if you will, that was really catalyzed by David Wolfe. And then I feel like so many of us just kind of like found ourself writing that wave and, and kind of manifesting very unique, um, unique outlets through it.

And, and, um, you know, I know you’ve been in this for a long time. That that’s how I know of you and you know, that, that whole era, if you will. And so when, when you’re bringing up, like going back to like 2013, I’m like, man, that’s right. Like 2013, That was a whole different era in the holistic world. And even what my interpretation of health and the product industry and, and, you know, product formulations and, and just like, there’s so many things are coming to mind right now.

Um, I’m, I’m, I’m curious a, when I even bring that up, what comes to mind for you? And be like this, this other question I have for you is like, how have you seen the health? the health scene or the holistic health and product industry change from, yeah, I guess in the last decade. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, it was interesting because I feel I, my, like I, about 1990 was when I was getting into the health and health scene and supplements and all that.

So I feel it’s interesting to see sort of a 30 year. 

Ronnie Landis: Oh, wow. 

Nadine Artemis: Whatever that is trajectory and well, there’s sort of a lot. That’s the same. There’s always the handful of good vitamins and then shitty is my like, you know what I mean? So there’s always sort of that player of like, what’s real and good. And then what isn’t um, but I feel like a lot has changed even in the past decade.

And I feel like one of the major things was back in 2013. There obviously was social media. It’s really been in that the past decade, sort of 2012, 2013 to present time, this really where we’ve had, we had social media prior, but like where it’s really been this decade of whatever this social experiment is.

And so, 

you know, you could see 10 years, you know, you could, Well, there was first a lot of connectivity, which is, which is great, but then you could see the beginning of what we now know is just such deep censorship that has really become such a, I don’t know the metaphor, but a many headed beast 

is what I’m thinking of.

Yeah, yeah, I didn’t know how many heads of Hydra had. Um, so I feel like that’s changed a lot. And then especially since, and then that just went on steroids in the past, like four years. 

Ronnie Landis: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: And then, you know, and then the division that goes with that. And then, and then where I felt like really for the past, it felt like minus the past 30 years.

So maybe the past 25 years, it felt like an evolution of, of building towards like, Hey, you know, some people aren’t going to do radiation. And like, I don’t know, there seemed to be a balance coming where You know, putting, you know, sovereign health choices and all that seemed to have, it was seemed to be getting its counterbalance where, yeah, like, 

Ronnie Landis: right 

Nadine Artemis: here, you can, why don’t you deal with your disease this way instead of these ways, or, and it, it was seemed, um, well, well, well respected and like options were coming and that, that.

Part of life was getting, you know, grounded in, and then I feel like then it just, then it, it didn’t. And then all of a sudden, right. It’s just everything that isn’t the science became the pseudoscience. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. Yeah. And 

Nadine Artemis: so, yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Was this, what was coming to mind as you’re saying this was this like, yeah, there was like these, these very dramatic polarized paradigms or, or programs really of like segments of the population or what felt like segments of the population where you would have like the, the people that are more kind of inclined, like we are, that are like health renegades, health freedom fighters, or just health enthusiasts, or just people that have some sort of common sense about this kind of thing.

And are geared towards sovereignty geared towards free thinking geared towards this idea that the body heals itself that I don’t need chemicals and cut burn poison and this whole thing like there there’s there’s a natural there’s a natural way. And then you had this other side that was just completely like all about the science, whatever the science is, or whatever that even means was just completely on that side of the thing.

And of course we know what that was symbolized under a needle. That was like the symbol of You know, the science and it felt like there was this like bipartisan kind of division, um, you know, combative energy going back and forth. And then, but what was interesting for me, and I don’t know how you feel about it, but it was also interesting to also witness this emergence of people that might’ve been more, more on the allopathic route.

And they kind of started waking up. And through necessity and realizing like, Oh, wait, actually this scientific thing, the science is like, actually not what it, not what it appears to be, or it’s not actually working, or it doesn’t actually make sense. Like, I felt like there’s like a mass awakening of people that were coming out of that spell.

And it seems like there’s, there is so much more of the population that, um. Yeah, it’s just kind of woken up out of that. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, it does feel though there was a part of a, sorry, a co existence before and then it seemed like then something was just trying to make us not co exist, sort of like, yeah, the bipartisan part.

And then peak pandemic, it was really hard because people were being pressurized in untold ways. 

And I 

feel like then a lot of people maybe, Did get caught up in things, but then maybe after we’re like, Oh, you know, after all the sort of mental pressures, which were too much for a lot of sort of the common person to.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: Dude, because I feel like I had in me like 30 years of like, no, thank you. 

Ronnie Landis: Right, right. 

Nadine Artemis: Sorry. So I’m like, it was easy. It was like, just no. And anything that I was reading about the science of the science, so to speak, I was like, are you kidding me? That isn’t. That’s not, that’s, you know, no, 

on so many 

levels.

It’s not making sense in my, in whatever part of my brain is scientific. That does not seem like legit science to me. The pressure was so intense. 

Ronnie Landis: The pressure was incredibly intense. And I think that’s like, I want to actually like segue for a moment when it comes to just holistic health as a, as a self care practice.

And I’ve, I’ve really, I’m, I’m really leaning more into this, this term of self care for me, because I’ve recently. Um, been coming out of, um, a really intense health crisis, so to speak from a respiratory infection that I, I picked up, I manifested, I, I, whatever, I don’t ever get sick, I never get sick for any reason, any circumstance.

And somehow I had, I had gotten this respiratory infection that was really messing with me. And I’m just, I’m coming out of it right now. My brain is out of brain fog. I’m able to function. new things. So you have a mold 

Nadine Artemis: exposure. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, that’s what I was. I was tracking that and it doesn’t appear that it’s directly from mold, like certainly not in my living environment.

Um, there’s a few different things that I, I was tracking kind of like different, different puzzle pieces. A lot of it was sleep deprivation. Um, yeah, there’s a, there’s a number of different things that I was, I was tracking, but I’m bringing this up because a, I want to actually get into this topic with you.

Um, but I, I want to speak to the self care piece and also relative to the pressure, the psychological, emotional pressure, the, the trauma, the, the distress that people either have gone through or they’re contending with right now and how important it is that we start to take, we start to take self care.

As seriously as we do, maybe for caring for other people or caring for our job or our work or our families or what our finances, um, yeah, I’d love to kind of start there on like, yeah, the, just the self care piece. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. And I think it’s something that we have to keep revisiting with ourselves 

because, 

you know, life and then other people’s needs.

And especially as you, um, you know, you just grow and then you may have a family. Or, you know, a work family, you know, just people as you grow older, you just have more responsibilities, but we kind of got to remember to put on our oxygen mask first. And I think we have to, you know, find the paths into ourselves, into self care that feel inspired rather than disciplined and motivated.

And, and I think in finding ways, you know, I think we have to refresh that sort of kind of revisit it, like, where is sort of where am I at right now? What tools do I have? Or what, what do I have available to, you know, to care for myself? What’s fun? What can I be doing? What kind of time I have? So sort of like keep revisiting that every few months.

Maybe it changes throughout the seasons. My book, Renegade Beauty, the general thesis is that to revive our beings, you know, it’s not really about another bottle, another jar of cream, another supplement, it’s about Engaging with the elements, which are essential to life. And now that we’re not, you know, it’s not a thousand years ago, so we don’t have to survive the elements.

We can live with them. Most of us have like shelter and running water. And so we can, we can engage with the elements in a new way that isn’t necessarily based on like survival, but they are essential, so to speak, to our survival on the planet. So, you know, Earth, so it’s about like lying on the Earth, feet on the Earth, whenever possible, enjoying the bounty of the Earth in food and botanicals that we can anoint our body.

You’ve got water, you know, hopefully you’ve got good, good water coming out of your tap. You’ve got a filter so you can have clean showers, baths, hopefully you’re drinking clean water, hopefully you get a chance to like jump in a lake, an ocean, a river every so often. Then we’ve got air, fresh air, forest bathing, going for a walk, opening up your windows in the middle of winter.

Putting a chair there, sitting there, you know, just getting that fresh air and, um, and the sun, 

you 

know, we’ve got to engage with the sun and know that our skin and our bodies were designed to be exposed to the sun’s rays. And, uh, we need the light, there’s so much about light that we don’t even know that we need, you know, I feel like we’re just scratching the surface with what we need with the red light frequencies, the violet light frequencies, how there are like cones in our eyes that are nothing to do with seeing, but literally there to catch the light signals and feed those into our mitochondria.

Ronnie Landis: Like photon receptors. Transcribed 

Nadine Artemis: Exactly. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm. Mm. 

Nadine Artemis: So I sort of think of that as your first level of self care. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Like, 

Nadine Artemis: what am I, you know, can an element be involved? You know, so sort of like what’s, cause that’s like the foundation and then from there, you know, looking at, you know, is it time, is it quality time?

Is it rest? Is it like, you know, massages? I’ve been almost, not like obviously every single week, but I discovered massage when I was like 18 and I kind of had to deal with myself. Like I’ve generally had a massage a week since I was 18. 

Give or 

take, 

Ronnie Landis: right? 

Nadine Artemis: Cause it’s just like, I don’t know. I was just like, there’s something about being physical on the planet that I just need that other feedback.

Ronnie Landis: That’s just like That touch therapy. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and that’s just like, you know, unwinding the muscles and all of that. But you know, then there’d be some winters here. Cause I feel like that’s when I really Self care becomes more challenging for me because I’m like, for me, the spring, the summer, the fall, I can run it.

I mean, I can go outside in the winter, obviously, but it’s not the same to just be like, you know, naked and getting soaking in all the rays or jumping in the lake and, and, or hiking in the woods. That’s sort of my favorite. So I have to think a bit harder in the winter, you know, and I was just definitely like about 10 years ago.

I’m like, what else is there besides like beautiful baths and massages. So that’s when I started sort of like upping my, upping our biohacking even more, even though I’d been, if I think about it, I really have been like tuning into like what I could biohack since the eighties. In fact, when I was like seven, we went to Disney world and I threw it.

I don’t know if you’ve ever been, but there’s this, um. Better living carousel is made by General Electric and it’s like this theater. It’s not really a ride, but it takes you through, you know, the moving people and they have like from the 20s, 30s, 40s and all the way up, like how electricity has changed people’s lives.

And there was one in the 40s where the daughter is like on this vibrating stand to like exercise her waist or something like that, like an old fashioned. And I was, I was mesmerized by that. And I remember her talking and like her voice was vibrating and I was like, I so need that, you know, so that I was like buying, I remember in 19, 90 I think it was like I bought the chi machine.

I got infrared eye massagers. 

So 

I’ve been doing that early. And then I just, uh, and then I’m always, cause I feel like I’m sort of like a living experiment, you know, and I’ve just been like researching with my body, making the skincare, oral care. You know, experimenting with the elements and I love experimenting with various, uh, biohacking things, which I feel that’s been a big part of my self care.

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, there’s so much, there’s so much nuance and depth that we could easily unpack with, with, the seeming simplicity of what you’re saying. And one of the questions that comes up for me that I’m curious about is how important is food? Um, the way that I phrased it is not exactly what I meant, but let me rephrase that.

Food. Yeah. Food is absolutely critical. Let me clarify, like the, the question, um, the question is actually speaking to as long as you’ve been in the food world and the nutrition world in comparative to all the other aspects of self care, how important do you feel food is compared to maybe how you felt it?

It was 10 years ago, maybe, if that makes sense. Do you, do you still feel like it’s as paramount or do you feel like it is not quite as important to other things? 

Nadine Artemis: I feel like it’s just as paramount. And I feel like even, you know, back like 30 years ago, part of my biohacking was, is food, right? You’re like, Oh, I can shift at, you know, X, Y, and Z how I feel or whatever, how I move with food.

That’s partly what got me into all of this as well. Um, but I think what’s key and especially if I look at the past 30 years is really looking at, or not, or just keep moving with your body. Don’t get stuck in what you think is good. And what I’ve also 30 years is Um, with healthier eating and with my dental research, I’ve seen, uh, two worlds sort of collide and that is with the anti nutrients and I, I think that’s pretty key to tune into because If I think about like when I, you know, in 1990, I was taking these little classes.

I was at university and then I would find these classes so that I could check, like how to make oat milk and make like hijiki salad. And like, so I was like, you know, uh, working with a lot of plant based stuff. But anyway, my point is that was a lot of health eating, like, okay, let’s make this pie crust out of almonds now, instead of flour.

That all makes, seems to make sense, but you know, eat your green smoothies, but there are real issues there with anti nutrients like phytic acid and oxalates. And so I feel like that’s a huge thing because as people, especially seeing the health movement, you know, and being inside of it for 30 years and seeing the increase in autoimmune issues, it’s really off the charts.

And then to see some of this is coming from our plant based choices. In our diets and in our healthier eating, you know, like that green spinach smoothie is, um, really taxing your body with the oxalates, for example. So the issue with oxalates or, or like, uh, phytic acid is that they are sort of like they rob the essential minerals from your bones.

So they’re chelating minerals out of your bones. And. The other issue is so many plants, you know, used to eat a lot of wild rice or just plants in general, and for whatever reason, they seem to be concentrating heavy metals. Whether it’s organic or not. So you’ll have kale and you’ll see high thallium Which I literally saw that after eating kale for a few we eat a lot of you make a chia and kale pesto So you got a lot of oxalates in the chia and the kale has Other issues.

It’s not more medium and oxalates. But anyway, did a heavy metal test. We were through the roof with arsenic and thallium and that was so hard to figure out at first because like I’ve known about heavy metals and of what, you know, done all kinds of things in my life not to have exposure to them since like 1990.

So I was like, whoa, if we’re getting this, like where is it coming from? So that was really eye-opening. 

Ronnie Landis: Hmm. It’s kind of like, and 

Nadine Artemis: really 

Ronnie Landis: like a paragraph and Really, 

Nadine Artemis: yeah. Sorry. I was just gonna say, and that is a big shift from our raw food days, I feel. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Yeah, totally. I, um, I just want to share like a quick piece on that.

Like I had an experience, basically I was vegetarian, vegan for, for, I mean vegan ish really, kind of by default, just based on the, the primary, Um, default settings of my diet, but I was mostly like vegetarian for the better part of 10 years and a raw foodist and an enthusiast for, for most of that time, and actually in 2020, you’ll find this actually interesting in 2020, one month before the pandemic actually hit, I was called to go into a deep experiment phase with my food choices.

And the identity that I had around, you know, raw food and vegetarianism and all that kind of thing is kind of wearing off. And I felt there was a big shift in transition happening. And something told me like, Hey dude, it’s time to run an experiment. And things we felt kind of stale anyways. And so I just decided, okay, well, I guess, you know, I, I’ll run an experiment and eat and kind of do this little ceremonial thing with, with a steak.

And, and this was kind of a big deal as, as for many of us that have made that transition, it is very strange thing, but something deep down was kind of like at a physiological somatic level, it was like, Yeah, we need something else. Like, we hit our threshold. There’s nowhere to go from here. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, 

Ronnie Landis: I know what you mean.

Yeah, totally. Why don’t I 

Nadine Artemis: call it the day the fats run out? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, that, that, yeah. And it wasn’t like I had any health issues. issue per se. I was still head and shoulders above most people like in the gym, but I just realized there, like, I realized that this wasn’t going to go anywhere beyond this. Like this.

Yeah. And so, long story short, I sat there, I did a little prayer, and I ended up eating a few bites of meat, and all of a sudden, I mean, it was a very shamanic experience, I mean, it was like I, like, just drank a cup of ayahuasca, I mean, it was, I had a full on niacin flush. There was blood rushing through my arms.

I had a brain gasm. I, it was so intense that I, I like grabbed the table and I’m like, oh my god, I’m like blasting off right now. And that all happened because Dr. Robert Kassar was texting me every single day for like a month or two because he went and did the carnivore diet and he was like having this whole like Complete epiphany after 15 years of being a vegetarian and he went through a full transformation.

I was just like, well, shit, if Robert, I mean, If he, and I could see it, I could see it in his bone structure. I could see it in his physicality. I could see it like, and he was one of kind of the hallmark people of like being a role model for optimal health at like almost 60, but I, I could see the contrast finally and, and what ended up happening was as I call it, the vegan goggles fell off.

I don’t know how else to put it. And all of a sudden it was like. I just saw it all differently. I just, I could see the whole thing and you know what I mean? And, and so that set me off on this integration between the two worlds where I did a carnivore diet for four months as for four months as a refeeding process.

And then somehow integrated into just becoming more of a intuitarian. Um, you know, ancestral approach, but without any dogma, without any, like, any, just integrating kind of the polarities of my own human, my own human animal, and human together, if you will. 

Nadine Artemis: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . 

Ronnie Landis: Um, and so I, I just wanted to mention that I felt inspired to just, just kind of, 

Nadine Artemis: yeah.

Ronnie Landis: Throw that experience in the pod and, and see what comes up from it. , 

Nadine Artemis: I like that. I know that I had that sort of similar. Experience, you know, having a steak and everything. It was around 2010 because I was doing all that dental research, having birthed and breastfed, My boy, and it just was like, yeah, I need another category.

And, um, 

Ronnie Landis: So even way back then, you, you had made that shift back then. At like the height of the raw food paradigm. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, because I’d already been raw and, and vegan for already so long. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. You 

Nadine Artemis: know, that it was, it was time for it to go. 

Mm. Because I, 

I think around 1992, I became vegan. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow, 

Nadine Artemis: you know, so definitely need it.

But then I was doing all the dental research and I was just like, Oh my God, we need organ meats. 

So 

it’s funny, though, because I, you know, started out in the health journey in the in the 90s, like vegan, and now I’m basically just like a steak and potatoes girl. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s so funny. I did skimmy the steak. My diet is absolutely simple.

Nadine Artemis: And um, you remember Rossum? The Rossum Garage? Of course. And uh, so that’s where, so we had started, you know, weaning and like having chicken broth and having fish. And then we finally got our steak from that place. And we cooked it up and I ate it and I was like, this is what I needed 

Ronnie Landis: Before that before the fbi came in.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah before the fbi came in 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, 

Nadine Artemis: but it was not too far ahead of that. We love that place And then if I think back to being uh, like when I was a girl, my favorite meals were like a filet mignon And like sushi, like I love those hits of protein and there really wasn’t vegetables back then. If I think of like when my family went out to a restaurant, you know, if it was a place where you could get a good steak, there was hardly any vegetables, you know, and I’m just saying like, because, you know, Vegetables are just completely overrated.

I feel 

Ronnie Landis: like

I don’t remember the last time I ate a salad and I, for 10 years, my salad, my salad was the most epic. 

Nadine Artemis: Oh yeah. Huge. I’m sure you had like apple cider vinegar. 

Ronnie Landis: In the olive oil and the avocado and the hemp seeds and the spirulina and the three different lettuces in this. Oh 

Nadine Artemis: yeah, I hear you. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah.

Ronnie Landis: And now 

Nadine Artemis: it’s, so besides like what I’ve, but what I’ve, what sort of become even stronger for me though in the past five years is the oxalate thing. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. And then as 

Nadine Artemis: I, you know, but what I was missing, I’m really thankful for Sally Norton’s book that came out recently. I also really like the research of Elliot Overton.

He just has like a YouTube channel. Um, so I was low oxalate for years, but what I wasn’t realizing, which is the kind of the magic bullet to be doing when you’re weaned and when you’re good, when you are low oxalate, or even if you’re eating higher oxalate, we need magnesium citrate, potassium citrate, calcium citrate.

B1, B6, but mainly those three minerals, the citrate versions of them, because that will um, because the oxalates, it’s not even, it’s not like just with vegan, you can’t get the right fat or cholesterol or nutrients. Or that you can’t absorb those. That’s one issue. But to me, I think the bigger danger in, um, a heavy oxalate diet, which can just be look like healthy eating in 20, you know, in present time, like your green smoothie and your whatever, you know, your vegetables with your meat, like a whole side of them.

Is that they are literally, you know, robbing the minerals that we need from our bones. So they like eating a lot of vegetables and oxalates will literally shrink your bones. And it will affect your muscles. And oxalates are like glass shards, like if you’ve ever eaten a fig or a, yeah, like 

Ronnie Landis: stoic acid, like it’s a calc.

It’s like, it’s like a calcification, like crystal. Yeah. It 

Nadine Artemis: calcify our body. And so if you talk about calcifying, the pineal gland or like unc calcifying it, you gotta get off the vegetables, so to speak. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. You 

Nadine Artemis: know? Cause it’s literally robbing our bones and our teeth. Like when you eat spinach and your teeth are like a rug after that’s the minerals leaving, you know, and then, and there’s a, so, but then the thing is when you, if you just, if you go off oxalates or you got to go to low, you can’t really go to no, you got to go low, but then they, as they’re leaving your body, you can even get more tartar and plaque because again, it’s, it’s messing with the mineral matrix of your body.

And that 

to me is super dangerous. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. This is, we just hit, we just hit a vein here. Like I didn’t know where I was going with when I opened up that little rabbit hole, but I’m so glad we we’ve arrived in this particular field of your expertise. I’ve actually experienced that tartar buildup that you’re talking about.

Um, and I’m not going to go into too much of my thing and this is not a consultation, but there is actually a tartar buildup in one of my teeth that. It almost like it’s like it feels pleomorphic in a sense that it changes. It doesn’t stay the same. It changes. I’ve just kind of gotten used to it and sometimes it will completely disappear and sometimes it’ll remanifest and.

Yeah, it’s like a different shape right now. It’s like, I don’t, and I have very, very good oral care protocols. Um, but what you just said just sparked something up because I was like, I don’t know where this, I don’t even know what this is. It doesn’t, I’m not even going to deal with it. Right. I’m certainly not going to deal with it.

a conventional dentist to look at it. 

Nadine Artemis: Well, it could just be like, so with that charter and it, yeah. And then that could have happened to you because you did go carnivore, which is automatically going to be pretty much a low to no oxalate situation. So the moment you stop, then it’s going to start coming out of your tissues and this can take years.

And so that’s where, um, well, that’s where it like, Hey, your symptoms can come back out. So. It can’t, even though you’re, you’re not having the oxalate. So things should be better, but then your oxalate dumping it’s called. And so in that dumping, but that’s when you need the minerals. So all you need to, so you know what I mean?

So then you take extra minerals and then that will calm down the dumping. And then you just keep, keep on keeping on and, and. Try not to, you know, go into high oxalate again. And then for the oral care, tartar is harder than plaque. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s hard. Yes. It’s a hard, so it can, 

Nadine Artemis: it almost feel, and if you, if you, if a chunk comes off a tart, like a chunk, even though it’s hard for it to come off, but if for somehow it did, it’s like, feels like bone.

So some people think, oh, 

Ronnie Landis: Oh my God. You just, wow. This is a massive revelation, Nadine. Cause this has happened to me where I’ve had little chunks that have come off. I’ve never told anybody this either. Cause it’s kind of weird. Um, and it felt like little chunks of bone, but for some reason I was like, um, just keep it moving.

It’s probably fine. And now those, but now those teeth, like as I’m feeling it, it’s like, Oh no, those are fully formed teeth. There’s no, there’s the enamel is all there. But there were little micro chunks that were coming off, and now what I’m hearing is that that was tartar buildup. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, so that’s sort of part of your oxalate clearing, especially, you know, being vegan.

We all have probably a lot more than most people. And so that’s the oxalate dumping, and you’re gonna have more of a buildup. So you could go to a, a dentist and just have like a good deep cleaning ’cause they have the tools. Mm-Hmm. . Um, I have experimented though with some, oh, what are they called? I think it’s a tartar scaler, which they seem maybe a bit scary, but I, I’ve tested out a few and if you get one of the more high end ones and it’s, it does, it, it vibrates basically when it hits the tooth.

And, um, yeah, it clears. The tartar goes away so that for people that are kind of oxalate dumping and getting more of a tartar buildup. It might be more than like, you know, you might need to manage the tartar more than going to the dentist twice a year and getting a cleanup. So that could help in the meantime, but, um, you have to just use skill set.

You have to follow the instructions and you have to get a more high end one because you don’t obviously want to scrape the teeth. But if you use it properly, you shouldn’t be scraping the teeth because it’s like the vibration does the work, not the scraping. 

Ronnie Landis: Oh, okay. 

Nadine Artemis: I was a little bit nervous, but it really, once you’re into it, you’re like, Oh, this makes a lot of sense.

And, um, so that really helps. And then ascorbic acid helps, um, I’m actually going to write an article on oxalate dumping and oral care, because I think it’s a huge issue for people. So there’s other things like, yeah, using that ascorbic acid helps lift it off. Um, the apple cider vinegar and baking soda trick that I have in my book helps to lessen it as well.

And You know, keeping up mouth, rinse, rinses and oil pulling is also very good as your teeth are sort of transitioning and getting stronger because now they got the minerals.

Ronnie Landis: Wow. 

Nadine Artemis: Even like swishing with electrolytes is good, you know, kind of giving me a swish before you swallow that it’s all those ionizing alkalizing minerals that we really need because of, of the, uh, high oxalate levels. Foods that we’ve been on. 

Ronnie Landis: So, so these, so these oxalates, they’re, they’ve been a major problem.

Like we’ve heard this for, for the last however many years, especially as the paleo and now the carnivore movement has made such a big. Assurgence, that’s one of the main talking points, especially when it comes to, you know, uh, promoting against a vegan or vegetarian predominant diet, um, which now I, I completely see and completely on board with, I understand, but this is just driving this point even deeper, especially from a, a, a mineral skeletal Oral health perspective.

And I’m just like wanting to like drive it even deeper with you and pull out like what unique information that you have on this. 

Nadine Artemis: Well, I really feel like, again, I’ve just sort of been observing myself and a lot of people sort of these past 30 years in, in the health movement. So health food, all the things, you know, so I’m seeing a lot, I feel like.

You know, even from the nineties, you know, I have people coming up to me all the time, even it was just at my store to solve things or, you know, their health and beauty, that kind of thing. So, so I feel like I kinda, I got a good pulse on like the scene of sort of. Modern people living in North America and the wide range of ailments and autoimmune issues.

And so what I’m finding really fascinating about the oxalates is it literally seems to be the thing that is joining them all together. So I got, you know, every, you know, most days of the week, I’ve got, um, all kinds of health questions coming at, at me, whether, you know, serious, light, you know, what do I do with a cold sore, a hangnail, cancer, you know, so it’s a wide range.

And then I’ll, I’ll, I’ll keep looking and checking with paper, research papers on oxalates. So loss of hearing in the middle ear, oxalates, 

all 

types of thyroid issues, Hashimoto’s, Hypo, hyper, the root causes oxalate. So they’re like glass shards. And depending on your Achilles heel is, it kind of depends how it will show up.

You know, for some, it will be eczema in the skin. Some, it will be hearing loss. Some, it will be arthritis, joint pain. Um, 80 percent of all adults over 50 have oxalates in their thyroid. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. Wow. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. 

Nadine Artemis: Bone marrow issues, fibroids, you know, like especially the female like, um, yeah, cystic fibroids, breast fibroids, breast calcification.

Uh 

Ronnie Landis: huh, uh huh. 

Nadine Artemis: That which is, can be, like if you have fibroidy calcify, calcification things like, Later on, that could be, you know, more leading you to a breast dysbiosis. All of that is oxalate buildup in the tissues. It’s, it’s insane how much the oxalates connect the dots. That’s what I keep getting surprised about.

Ronnie Landis: Man, I, I’m thinking about like calcification. I spent Many, many years studying this from many angles, obviously David Wolf kind of brought out a more complete integrated picture of this way back in the day. And I just got really fascinated about it. And I actually put a huge chapter in one of my, my prior books on this.

And it’s such a deep topic, but when you think of like calcification, there’s it’s an even like cancer, like the, the tumor, Is obviously not the actual issue. It’s the encasement of the, the organism, the fungal viral organism underneath that the immune system can’t get access to because there’s a shielding that it’s created around it.

And it will attract all kinds of. Um, positively a charged, um, material like heavy metals and calcium phosphate crystals and pesticides and whatever else it’ll create this like in protein deposits. And I’m just thinking, Oh, it must also do the same with oxalate crystals too. Like, like I’ve never, I never made that connection.

So apparently if you want to do a decalcification protocol or a, or a de cancer protocol or fill in the blank, then you have to factor in the oxalate removal process. 

Nadine Artemis: Yes, I would think so, which again, I think, um, magnesium citrate, uh, is going to be key with, with, you know, a little bit of potassium citrate and a little bit of calcium.

Like, I think the more magnesium you take, you don’t, it doesn’t need to be equal ratio to the calcium and Sally Norton has, has ratios in her book. And she also has a really good electrolyte. Um, recipe. So you could buy those in bulk from like bulk supplements and make up a good, good electrolyte mix and you know, add some monk fruit powder and you’re off to the races.

Ronnie Landis: Okay. Mm hmm. Okay. 

Nadine Artemis: Because so much depends on those ionizing, alkalizing, um, minerals, A, that we just need them. And then we need them to clear the oxalates and to balance the ones that we’re still going to get a little bit each day. 

Ronnie Landis: So, I mean, with this said, like, what’s your position on position? Your perspective on Vegetables and even just like, is it just, at this point, does it feel like, is it just kind of non essential or is there just, Yeah, in my 

Nadine Artemis: head, like I, that’s why I was saying like one of my, one of my fave, um, I like this guy, Dr.

Anthony Chaffee. 

And he 

has a lecture you can see on YouTube called vegetables are trying to kill you. 

And that’s 

sort of where I’m at now. Yes, it is. I mean, I do, you know, sweep, I eat, I do eat yams, which do have oxalates. Again, you can’t go to no. It’s pretty impossible. Um, but if you boil and rinse, you know, and then from there we make like dough out of the yam and then we’re making calzones and stuff, and it’s kind of my only, only oxalate, but I, I do need the yam so that I can make the dough.

Cause I’m not eating. You know, I don’t 

Ronnie Landis: know. It’s also like a, it’s a good carbohydrate source, right? 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. And I do, I feel like I, I do like some good carbs, but I don’t want to, you know, I’m not so into having a lot of fruit sugar. Um, but I think, uh, Paul, Dr. Paul Saladino has a pretty good balance with his carnivore.

Like he brings in raw dairy. And, uh, fruit so that can, you know, if you want to widen it, but the vegetables, they don’t really, I don’t, they’re kind of just, I love like cilantro. I love I’ll make like a cilantro infused water buffalo butter that I like. Um, but. Not every vegetable. So I think, yeah, cilantro is cool.

There’s some lettuce that have no oxalates and stuff, but I’m just like, but why there’s like nothing in there and any vitamins and nutrients that the vegetables have, you’re not getting them at 

Ronnie Landis: all. Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: And there is also that, um, I can’t remember the paper, but if you look like you can, there are like heavy metals and vegetables, like they’re literally concentrating heavy metals.

Ronnie Landis: Like particularly like greens. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. Like, like especially like, well, chart is high in oxalates kale. I don’t know why. I mean, I’m sure if somebody knows why, but it, it uptakes the thallium. Our thallium was off the charts. So you’re getting really crazy amounts of heavy metals, even from organic vegetables.

and then you know the oxalates are messing with the minerals, which are also messing your relationship to dealing with the heavy metals, 

Ronnie Landis: Uhhuh, . 

Nadine Artemis: So that’s also an issue. The other thing I found absolutely fascinating with oxalates is that aspergillus. Which I believe is in some foods like peanut butter and stuff and penicillin molds.

If they’re in your environment, let’s check this out. They will make oxalates. They will make oxalate acid in your body. Yeah. Isn’t that crazy? 

Ronnie Landis: They’ll cause your body to manufacture it. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. I’m trying to read the paper. I’m trying to find the paper I have on that. Um, but that, I was like, I don’t know, to me I find that, here it is.

What are the oxalates and aspirins? Some aspergillus species produce oxalic acid which reacts with blood or tissue calcium to precipitate calcium oxalate. Isn’t that crazy? And then, Um, super super foods can be contaminated with poisonous, heavy metals. Kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, cauliflower and collard greens are all hyper accumulators of thallium and sessi cesium sesame seeds.

And then, um, calcium oxalate is a major, um, constituent of ox of kidney stone. So that’s where most people have heard of oxalates. As kidney stones, oxalates may also be produced by several common molds. For example, penicillin and aspergillus molds can convert sugar into calcium oxalate at very high yields.

So think of that poor person doing their kale and spinach smoothies. living in a moldy environment, and they’re trying to get healthy. 

Chris 

Hemsworth, or one of the Hemsworths, I don’t know, I don’t really know them, you know, but the one that dated Miley Cyrus, he was joining her on her vegan, 

vegan 

diet, and then he ended up in the hospital with smoothies.

Ronnie Landis: Just from green smoothies. 

Nadine Artemis: Well, I mean, and who knows, like what the other meals during the day were like, but spinach is so high in oxygen. It’s like top top. So if you’ve been having like a green smoothie with spinach, that’s like, just not healthy. 

Ronnie Landis: I wonder if you like I’m thinking of like I’m thinking of my whole history of being in the vegan vegetarian community.

And you know, it’s definitely a spectrum. But there are the classic kind of lead diets, if you will, that are like in the particular vegan And they’re not changing like they’re they’re not changing and and they’re gonna, they’re, they’re sticking with this thing. And you can see that there’s a particular like neurosis or there’s a particular um, and they’re trying and like, they’re actually really trying and they’re doing the research and they’re doing their best.

in that particular like frame, but they’re so, they’re so like, just it’s, this is the only way this is the only pathway I can see. And you can see that as much as they’re trying, they’re progressively declining or they’re emaciating or their, their, their physical structure or just their psychological disposition is waning, or they’re not fully embodied in their physical like, it’s just kind of like, it’s getting a little Crickety, uh, racket, whatever.

You can see 

Nadine Artemis: the bones get brittle, I think, after a long time. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, I hear what you’re 

Nadine Artemis: saying. 

Ronnie Landis: They can’t see it, but it’s like, whoa, it’s, it’s, it’s getting very clear that there’s some sub, there’s some substance, there’s some deep, deep, like, G and 

Nadine Artemis: prana, that was not coming. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, like the physical body is, the building blocks are not there.

Nadine Artemis: Yes. Yep. And I mean, when I was becoming vegan in the 90s, like cholesterol was bad. Fat was bad. You know, steak was bad. So it seemed like, oh, this is, this is the answer. Mm 

Ronnie Landis: hmm. But that’s all 

Nadine Artemis: changed. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, yeah, and I guess, I guess, like, in an unintentional way, this conversation, so much of it has, is kind of like a, um, you know, a warning, a warning message without trying to necessarily steer anyone in a particular direction, but, um, you know, a little bit of a, a little bit of a, uh, a clarion call to really consider what direction one is going with their diet.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and I feel, um, mainly, it’s like, slow down, and then really be with what you’re eating, so that you, like, how does it taste? How is it going down? How is it an hour after you eat? How is it the next morning? Has it left your body? It’s like, really feel the whole journey, so that you know what’s right for your body.

Um, you know, I definitely was like, I love to experiment. It’s like, you know, then a few years ago, I’m like, Oh, lectins, they seem to be an issue. So I’ll like eliminate lectins and literally find a difference. Um, so that’s how, you know, I’ll, I just keep experimenting that way. And that’s what, you know, turn me from oak milk to like a steak and potato person is I just kept, kept listening and not landing on a certain thing.

You know? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And a beautiful, beautiful advice. And, um, I’m, I’m feeling into like the time that we have to, and what we’ve already opened up. I, I really want to get, I really want to get into a little bit more about dental health. And particularly like the skeletal, the skeletal frame too.

Cause we’re already, we’ve already gone deep into this rabbit hole. I feel like there’s, um, there’s something there that I want to explore with you in terms of like rebuilding the frame of the human body, especially if somebody has either been vegan or, or come off like a completely GMO Franken food diet, like most of us have, um, And there does seem to be a very noticeable difference, like in the structure of the human frame, generationally speaking, like every generation I’ve noticed is, does feel more like, um, uh, weaker in small, Timid and more like, um, almost like more AI like compared to like a more embodied natural human being.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. Well, we’re getting away from so much. That’s, well, that’s what, you know, talking about biohacking. One reason, um, that I vibe with the biohacking is cause I feel like generally speaking, it’s the elements concentrated. So you can bring in the red light and bring in ozone, hydrogen, uh, pulse, electromagnetic frequencies.

So that’s, that’s why I love them. Cause you know, especially in this modern time, we need things more concentrated, faster. Um, you know, and apparently the pulse of the earth isn’t as strong as it was. I don’t know the time frame. It’s been getting less pulsey, so to speak. Um, it’s like a weaker pulse again that I don’t know if that’s because the eventually make the magnetic poles will shift But anyway, that’s way beyond beyond me, but um speaking about building up our frame So yeah, because I just feel like we need extra help right because we are like At least three generations in from like our grandparents eating more processed food and having antibiotics.

And if your grandmother had antibiotics, it’s affecting your gut microbiome today. And so we know from studying the microbiome that we have less species, less diversity. And even if we look at the mouth, um, you know, every strep, strep bacteria causes cavities. And And everybody has strep in their mouth. So why does it cause cavities for some people, not others?

And some researchers feel, well, it could be because that particular mouth is missing its ancestral bacterial buddies, so to speak. So the strep is missing other bacteria that might keep it under control. Same with H. pylori in the gut. It could just, maybe not a problem, but it just could be missing its, its cohorts.

So we do have some generational stuff to revive. So I think another reason why, if we can really dial in the nutrition and look to things like biohacking to help. So the pulsed electromagnetic frequencies I brought up, cause I find that is phenomenal for building bone density. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. 

Nadine Artemis: Now again, that’s not, there’s so many different types and strengths.

Obviously I’m talking about Um, a stronger PMF or a more professional machine, or just something really hardy because there’s just, you know, ones that are like the current is not very strong. That’s not going to build bones, but bones are paisley electric. So they respond to that as well. And then if we’re not eating oxalates.

Or keeping up with our electrolytes, and then we’re eating, you know, organ, organ meats and protein. Then, I think that’s a big, big way to keep the bones healthy, as well as red light, sun exposure, vitamin D in the winter. 

Ronnie Landis: Those 

Nadine Artemis: are really key.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, it sounds like we, we have to go down more of an ancestral living path, like modified in our, our, our current environment, of course, like that, that’s where all the, the, um, the signs are pointing. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, I feel like it does always go back to that even, you know, Even in studying for botanical, botanical formulating, I was looking at recipes from the 1800s and those recipes were looking at things from antiquity, you know?

So I just feel like we can go back to a lot that’s really, again, our bodies are biologically evolutionary, not going to evolve as fast as modern food production and, you know, how we’re eating plastic and cellulose And food dies, and some of us are eating tide pool packs, or tide packs, or tide pods. But, um, you know what I mean?

So, like, we are putting things in, on, and around our bodies that we haven’t evolutionarily caught up to yet. So, again, I feel like the biohacking is a good thing, because that’s, Sometimes we need something that powerful or concentrated to help with the modern living. But, you know, again, when, you know, even as a vegan and then when you find out like different stats, like, you know, no culture or tribe or people has been vegan from birth to death.

Ronnie Landis: It doesn’t exist. 

Nadine Artemis: I mean, but I get it. And I, like, obviously, it started with a lot of compassion for animals and Of course. 

So I 

can get, I get the struggle. It’s real. But I feel like at the end of the day, Through all of our experimenting kind of as a collective of people, you know that have been experimenting with these foods for the past few decades is just really I think we’re really coming to understand like no Because I think we’ve had you know, that’s like a lot of people have lived as vegan sort 

of 

since 

the 

90s probably more than ever before.

And I think we’ve had that modern experiment. 

Ronnie Landis: And I think we’re seeing, what’s that? It’s a pretty stark contrast, just a decade or 15 years of the height of that movement and seeing how the, the health community worldwide Has has branched out into many spectrums and you can kind of just get a sense of like the, the, the people that gravitate towards certain types of diets.

And I’m not speaking generally, I’m speaking more specifically because you have general, generally you have people in the keto diet or carnivore diet that aren’t as healthy as other people, because generally most people aren’t healthy. So it’s not like the diet is the end all be all. But there is a natural gravitation that healthy, robust people have that I’ve noticed.

To certain to certain like either dietary or even fitness practices, um, that tend to go in nature as a natural proclivity. Um, there are, there are kind of like intuitive or intrinsic attractions that like really healthy people have, um, that I think are more kind of the 1 percent versus the, the general, the general population of people that might hop around from different things, but never really find, find a home.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, I’ve seen that. I also feel, I was just thinking like the 2012, um, like longevity conference versus like 2018. 

Ronnie Landis: Oh yeah. Right. And I doubt 

Nadine Artemis: like there would have been so many less vegetarians in 2018. Um, so it feels like the health movements now aren’t really vegan. And then what’s funny is like, you’re seeing it, um, in the quote unquote real world more.

And like when I, like, when I, like in 1990, nobody was vegan and it seemed like totally radical and now it’s like advocated by organizations, you know, like the world health, I mean, like our, the world economic forum. And it’s like, if they’re suggesting a diet, I think I’m going to do the opposite. 

Ronnie Landis: You know where, where before, before, like this was counterculture.

That was part of the appeal. Like I’m a renegade, like I’m going against the cat. That’s why I’m doing this raw food thing. 

Nadine Artemis: Exactly. Yeah. It’s so weird that it become like state sanctioned instead of counterculture. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a very good point. 

Nadine Artemis: But I also think part of the raw, like, so raw being a bit different than vegan, sort of a little more primal.

And I feel like if that appealed to you too, it was also because we were looking for how do we get closer to nature. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. No, that’s exact. That’s exactly what it was. It wasn’t even about being vegan. Vegan kind of just attached itself to that, but it was 

Nadine Artemis: raw meat. 

Ronnie Landis: I wasn’t, I wasn’t that, but like the raw, it was kind of an intrinsic, like desire to get back to nature.

And it just, it made sense at the time. And, and there were people that were making it make sense. Like David made it make sense to me and also inspired. It was a very inspired. Yes. Vibrant, colorful, uh, option compared to the, the mashed potato reality that we were coming out of. 

Nadine Artemis: Yes. And I feel like one thing that’s always been a thread through all of this was at least connecting through real food, 

you know, 

even from my beginning stage in the 1990s was like, I just wanted to get to what was real 

and 

away from processed.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, exactly. Exactly right.

Well, there’s definitely a definitely a trip down memory lane for sure. 

Nadine Artemis: Absolutely. 

Ronnie Landis: I want to go ahead. 

Nadine Artemis: She says they need to see the evolutions. 

Ronnie Landis: I know it’s, it’s really neat. And that’s why I love having a podcast and still having it, um, and still going strong with it and, and bringing people on and bringing people back.

I mean, I’ve, I think I’ve had every major, you know, almost 300 plus episodes. And I’ve, I’ve definitely had every major person in our relative field. of the last, you know, 10, 20 years. Um, and then so many, so many others from such a spectrum of, of, you know, um, um, what’s the word, just, just a spectrum of, of people from different, different fields and different domains.

And it’s really fascinating to watch the evolution, but even to, to witness my own evolution as a, um, it’s, it’s pretty amazing. And what, one of the things that I think it’s taught me is that, um, is to always stay humble. And there is kind of a point where you do, you do arrive at like a set point, like all the experimenting and all the, the trying on different things.

And even the, the identifying with different, different things as you’re trying things and some things work, some things don’t, some things are for a season, some things are for a cycle. Eventually, it does feel like you do arrive at a certain set point where I may not know everything and things are subjects to change, but there’s certain things about me that I know there’s work for me that I figured out.

And I think when somebody finally arrives at that place, um, not only does everything just simplify, but there’s a certain level of confidence that people Are able to, to have inside themselves because I feel like a lot of this, this seeking outside of ourself for whatever it may be is because we, we’ve lost this sense of self belief.

Um, and we, we’ve lost confidence because there’s so many other people outside of us that are telling us this is the way. And eventually you kind of realize like, Oh no, actually, I’ve, I’ve been on, I’ve been on the path the whole time, but now I’ve, I’ve just arrived at my own personal, my own personal truth.

And then that becomes the new kind of GPS system. 

Nadine Artemis: Yes. The GPS guide is inside always. Um, and we do have such an external culture where we feel like, you know, every waking moment we should get advice from something outside of ourselves. And this kind of feels a bit how the culture is set up right now, but we have to just keep figuring it out from, you know, from the inside out and just build that foundation, which like, you know, probably comes with some wisdom and maturity, but when you can feel grounded in and have that foundation in your guts, 

it is 

good.

Ronnie Landis: In your guts, 

Nadine Artemis: which aren’t leaking because you’re not eating oxalates, which to me, it was like, you know, I obviously you’ve been in the health room. It’s always the leaky gut, right? Like that’s been following us around for a while, but really those, the shards of the oxalates perforate. Like, I mean, if there was ever a cause of a leaky gut, it’s high oxalates.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, I mean, that’s one of the big revelations of this entire episode that I think so many people are going to take away with them in this whole thing, just to tie it not on what we’re kind of talking about with like the self esteem, self confidence and self trust. It’s really like your gut instinct, right?

Yeah. People talk about intuition. It’s like, well, where is that semantically located? It’s not really even in your heart, like follow your heart. Well, it’s not, I don’t really get my guidance from my heart. I mean, I feel things certainly, but. It’s actually in my gut that I, I get directional navigation where I get like a yes or a no is my actual gut.

So that stands to reason that like, if my gut microbiome, my intestines, my colon, that if I’m blocked up, I’m constipated, or I have a leaky gut, like you said, um, a dysbiosis. then my ability to trust my inner navigation is going to be a little skewed and I might get miscommunication. 

Nadine Artemis: Exactly. And you got that calcified pineal gland, not you, but you know what I mean?

So when we can have the systems synced, the pineal gland talking to the gut. Checking in with the heart’s feelings, you know, that’s a good synchronicity alignment, inner alignment.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I’d love to, I’d love to complete this epic conversation with just a little, a little note on living libations. I mean, I I know we didn’t even, we didn’t even talk about it this whole time, but I love the living libations product line as far as skin care, oral health, um, beauty products, like they are the absolute go to and I’ve only played with a handful.

Um, but you know, so many of my, my closest friends for so many years have just like been so sold out on them. And I’ve just started playing with a little bit more, just kind of like more of the self care, kind of feminine masculine kind of balance. And I’m like, Oh, I really actually, I love lathering myself in, in these essential oils and, and plant based botanicals that you guys have put together.

So I’d love to just do, you know, just talk a little bit about living libations and, um, And share that with the audience before we close out. 

Nadine Artemis: Sure. Yeah. Well, I love, I love living libations too. Yeah. I started formulating yet back. That’s what brought me into this whole thing in the nineties. And, uh, yeah, here we are.

Um, and we just keep, I just want to take care of every part of the body. You know what I mean? Like, so we’ve, you know, me, I think we’ve revolutionized a few areas too, cause we’ve got the dental serums. 

Ronnie Landis: Um, 

Nadine Artemis: which were sort of new to the planet when I made them about 20 years ago, and we’ve got the ozonated dental gels and those aren’t, weren’t even a thing, you know, that it kind of can replace toothpaste, but we also make toothpaste too, but it’s a very concentrated sort of botanical biotics that can help balance the oral microbiome.

You can floss with them, that kind of thing. And then we’ve got our best skin evers, which I feel like revolutionized. A bit about how people take care of their skin because it’s revolutionized washing your face and your skin with oil instead of soap. And like the sea buckthorn best can ever could be its very own business.

It is so beloved. And just really helps bring into balance the skin. Generally, we want to stay out of the way, and as gross as it sounds, we want to let the bacteria be the beautician. So everything that we’re applying to our body, we want it to be harmonious with the microbiome. Instead of disrupting it, or mutating the microbiome, or killing off species.

And, um, yeah, so like people are getting, you know, rid of clearing up rosacea, acne, cystic acne that they may have had for like a decade. So I love that because Things can shift for people without even changing their diet, which is amazing, you know, because sometimes it’s like if you can just get rid of the acne, then you might have energy to look at something else, you know, it can be a bit debilitating if you don’t feel confident.

Ronnie Landis: Right. And 

Nadine Artemis: who you are. You know, I just love, we get so many emails of it clearing up for people and people being astounded or people are like, I don’t feel like I have to wear makeup to leave the house now. Or, you know, that kind of thing, which is just liberating. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s super liberating. Especially, I imagine, especially, uh, As a woman too, because that’s such a pertinent issue for so many, I mean, men and women, of course, like, but I think there’s a certain, there’s a certain impact that it has on, on women, which is probably a whole podcast to get into kind of this, but that, that I can imagine like how fulfilling that feels when you can give someone a natural solution that, you know, actually works and improve somebody’s sense of self esteem and can lead them down a health path without the complexities, um, involved.

Nadine Artemis: Yeah. Sometimes we just need it easy. Well, often we need it easy, right? 

Ronnie Landis: I’m more, I’m more inclined to take the easy path. I mean, not the, the less effort, but the, the simpler path. 

Nadine Artemis: Oh yeah. The path of least resistance is always. Good. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: So that’s, you know, and that’s actually even when I’m thinking about an area of the body, you know, if I’m writing or researching it or designing a product.

I like step back and I, and I’m trying to think, well, how does the body just take care of that? If we, you know, if we’re not involved, like we weren’t born with a toothbrush in our hands. So like, what is the system for the body to take care of the teeth without our involvement? Doesn’t mean we won’t, you know, get involved at some point and brush our teeth, but like, you know, what is going on?

How does this skin actually take care of itself? Before we had like alcohol based toners and sodium lauryl sulfate. Foaming cleansers, you know 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, right. So essentially what what i’m hearing you say from a micro and macro biome perspective is all the products are designed to be symbiotic with Your, your body’s biotic organism, like the actual body that lives on you and lives within you, it’s, it’s meant to be symbiotic and, and, and co, co supportive.

It’s not, it doesn’t inhibit or, or, um, yeah, inhibit any of the body’s natural processes. 

Nadine Artemis: Exactly. Which isn’t that strange that that’s unique and radical? 

Ronnie Landis: Totally. Totally. Yeah, because everything else is completely the opposite. It’s like, it’s like a, it’s like an antibiotic onslaught to your, your microbiome that’s on your skin and your mouth, all these mouth washes.

And I mean, thank God there’s such an industry now of like natural mouthwashes. That’s a whole revelation. But yeah, 

Nadine Artemis: and so easy to make, you know, but yeah, like literally the drugstore kind, I mean, this, my stats about 10 years old, but creates over 36, 000 cases of oral cancer every year. 

Ronnie Landis: Whoa. Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: And I, I don’t, you know, I haven’t re researched it with more microbiome info, but I’m positive it’s because it’s like, you know, decimating part of your, You know, your essential microbiome, the beneficial bacteria, because what we know now is that a mouthful of bustling bacteria is actually what’s going to help keep the dentist away.

Ronnie Landis: Right. Cause that’s such a huge aspect of your immune system, right? 

Nadine Artemis: Huge aspect. And it’s again, like we have to, we have to not have the pathogens, you know, take control of our body, but we do need the beneficial bacteria. Which is just as plenty as cells in our body. You know, there’s billions of bacteria, billions of cells, and, uh, we’re basically just a host to a bacterial banquet, 

Ronnie Landis: a bacterial banquet.

Yeah, we got to be 

Nadine Artemis: a good host, provide a good environment and not have a pathogen party in our insides. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. And that, and that’s why, that’s why you just can’t eat oxalates. 

Nadine Artemis: Exactly. Or live in mold. 

Or use 

Listerine. 

Ronnie Landis: I mean, if anyone’s listening to this and they just stop doing that, like that, that is, that is worth all of it.

That will change your entire life. 

Nadine Artemis: Yeah, and I just, again, I think it’s good that we’re talking about this because it’s so much of these healthy foods. And I know so many people are so earnest in their efforts and doing their best, but may not be getting anywhere. Um, because they’re eating kale and spinach.

Ronnie Landis: And I think, I think a great, a great place to like really tie a knot on this conversation is like that particular point, which is you can get really jaded and frustrated and kind of like lose, lose faith in, um, especially in the health community. the health world, the health community, because it does feel like it’s changing all the time.

And you’ve been so earnest and sincere and spent so much money and seeing the doctors and the naturopaths and the nutritionists and the therapists and all the things, and you’re still having challenges. I mean, my heart goes out to you and I get it. And it’s, it’s, it can feel very, um, you can get very jaded.

Yeah. And discouraged and very discouraged. And that’s like the piece right there that, you know, even if you, you feel like you’ve been in that place, like a, do not quit because you don’t quit on yourself. And, um, yeah, like, I’d love you to maybe just say, Speak to that for people for a moment like that, that are really experiencing that.

Cause I know that, that I, I went through that for a while too. And almost just want to say, F it, I don’t even care anymore. Um, and now I’m recommitting fully to my health and my self care. And I’m so glad that I am. 

Nadine Artemis: That’s awesome. Well, yeah, I mean, so many things can get us down or even just, you know, getting the flu for a week or so can just, 

you 

know, wipe you out and, and feel discouraging, um, especially if then.

Other things, you know, then that can be a snowball, so to speak. So we got to be easy on ourselves, find those paths of least resistance, um, find the inspiration rather than the motivation, 

you

know, and then we’re going to, you’re going to keep, you’re going to be good and then you’re going to hit a little roadblock and then you’re going to be good, you know what I mean? So it is. There’s going to be stuff that keeps coming up for refinement, but hopefully through inspiration instead of motivation, through being less hard on yourself, through trusting that you are in the right place at the right time, um, then hopefully you’ll find that the strength to move and then get to a new horizon.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Nadine Artemis: And, and new solution because solutions are, you know, Are there, you know, and that’s why it’s good to not to just trust where you are at the moment, trust where you’re standing. Even if you don’t, it’s just a good life game to play. You just have to assume from now till you’re not here, that you’re in the right place at the right time.

It’s a fun game. You may as well play it. 

Ronnie Landis: You might. Yeah, it’s really though. 

Nadine Artemis: And when you’re relaxed in where you’re standing, then many solutions will 

Ronnie Landis: Hmm. Dang, that, yeah, you nailed it right there. Yeah, be, be here now. Be exactly where you are and fully commit to that. 

Nadine Artemis: Hmm. Even if it sucks. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, Nadine, this, this was absolutely amazing. I had no idea we were going to get into most of any of what we actually got to do. And especially me too. Like this was so much fun, super meaningful. And, um, it feels like a little bit of an adventure, choose your own adventure story for the audience. 

Nadine Artemis: Yes. 

Ronnie Landis: Um, So if people want to, they want to go deeper into your world and, um, you know, your website, your company, living libations, your book, renegade health, what’s the best place for people to reach out?

Nadine Artemis: We have our website, living libations. com. There’s also other like interviews and articles on there as well. And really email us. We are adept in, you know, health, beauty, dental questions. And if we don’t know the answer, hopefully we can at least shed some light on some resources. So do feel free to email us and then we’re all the books.

Um, Holistic dental care and renegade beauty are also on the site. They’re also on audible and you know amazon and all that 

Ronnie Landis: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and doing a round three with me. I really appreciate it 

Nadine Artemis: So do I it was nice to hang out with you for this time