Ronnie Landis
Greetings everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Life Mastery Podcast Show. I’m your host Ronnie Landis.

And I am really looking forward to sharing this episode with you. It has been literally many years coming because I was rummaging through my digital archives for some different recordings that I’ve done over the years that I lost track of and things that I wanted to find. And one of the podcasts that I recorded

almost three years ago three summers ago in Bali Indonesia with an individual named Mike Chang and Mike Chang is an amazing human being actually one of the most amazing human beings and We were put in contact through multiple mutual friends when I was living in Bali for about six months and Mike Chang was the former I guess owner founder or one of the founders of

six pack abs.com. If you don’t know what that is, don’t worry about it. But if you’ve been in the digital marketing space, then you probably remember who Mike Chang was. And what’s most important is who he is. This individual is

Really just an amazing human being, super wise, super healthy, super vital. Him and I had a lot of really cool adventures together when we were in Bali and decided to sit down and do a really amazing podcast. So I’m so grateful that I found this episode and I was just looking through just some more digital.

files and this one popped up and I thought okay I need to get this out to everybody and just put it together and here you go so I hope you enjoy it the audio quality is not amazing but it is it’s doable for sure and the conversation is amazing and you will get a lot of gemstones of wisdom from it no doubt so and if anything this will open up your

open up your awareness to who Mike Chang is and maybe you can go down the Mike Chang rabbit hole and I certainly hope that you do because he is incredible, incredible treasure trove of wisdom and practical insights for living a fully optimized life. Okay, without further ado, enjoy this podcast with Mike Chang.

Greetings everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Life Mastery Podcast where we’re discussing health, wealth, wisdom, and spirituality. I’m Ronnie Landis and I am here with my dear friend Mike Chang in Canggu, Bali, Indonesia doing a series of podcasts with amazing human beings. Some that I’ve known for many years and some that I’ve just recently connected with and have seen have felt like lifelong

of brothers and the man in front of me definitely has felt like that since the moment we connected. think, well, a number of people put us in contact, Stephen Huntsman, Stephanie Perucci. I want to give a shout out to both of them. And then, yeah, when I met up with you at your home,

Like I’ve known about you for many years through your, you know, the infamous like six pack abs.com infomercials on YouTube. And I didn’t really know anything about you. I just remember seeing those ads or those.

Mike Chang
Those abs. I remember seeing those abs.

Ronnie Landis
right in slip. I remember seeing those ads for those abs and how to get abs in but I never I never went through I never it wasn’t of interest to me as far as like the fitness industry online and YouTube but you were really at the inception point of that and became like really like an icon in that particular niche and then I remember you just kind of disappeared and I didn’t think anything of it but then you reemerged kind of on the scene and it I started hearing about

you through a lot of our mutual friends like Stephen Huntsman, Daniel Raphael, people that I’ve known for 10 years now in the conscious spirituality culture and particularly from Los Angeles. I saw your name around some of these circles and then I saw you on social media teaching about spirituality and meditation. I Marcy Locke again. Marcy Locke is another one. Another dear sister that…

Mike Chang
didn’t know you knew

Marcy as well.

Ronnie Landis
Oh yeah, oh yeah for many years. Oh yeah, there’s a lot a lot of connections. Yes So anyways, yeah, it’s just been great to connect with you here in Bali and just been instant resonance and Yeah

Mike Chang
Well, thank you Ronnie for the introduction and it was meant to be, man. It was time. It’s inevitable that we would connect at some point. And I think the timing is perfect. You just got to Bali a couple months ago and I had the opportunity to be here for a few years now and just…

live in this different type of life now, not just because I’ve made a lot of changes in my life, but just because also just being in this new environment and it’s great how we met here and having the opportunity to kind of share some of the trawling errors and things that I’ve discovered here in Bali to kind of help make life a little more simpler and figure out a few things.

It’s been awesome, it’s been really fun.

Ronnie Landis
Yeah, and

I’m incredibly grateful for that. It is a completely different world. It’s a different reality really. A lot of people, if you haven’t been to a place like Hawaii or Bali or somewhere outside of your comfort zone as far as your living location, especially in the States or a developed area like Europe, then you may not have an experiential reference point for what Mike is talking about. It’s a different algorithm. Yeah.

what’s your perspective on the value of either traveling or people getting out of their algorithmic environment?

Mike Chang
You know, I think when it comes to, I think everybody, I haven’t really spoken to anybody that tells me I don’t like to go see new places. I don’t like to see the world, to see cool spots. I’ve never heard anybody tell me that.

And I think when it comes to actually not just doing it, but really experiencing it, which means staying in the place for a little while and maybe even moving for a while to really get immersed to this new environment, new culture, new way of thinking, new way of being. It takes, it takes having to let go. It takes having to let go and

Ronnie Landis
Yeah.

So much of that.

Mike Chang
Yeah, yeah, so much. And the people that can really truly immerse into an environment and have new experiences, new connections with people that they never would have.

they had to have some level of surrender to what they wanted to happen. Surrender to certain outcomes that they were, you know, that they really wanted. If not, they couldn’t have been able to survive in a place that is very different. Now, somebody goes to another place, but the place is very similar in operation. It’s similar in thinking and culture. Then they didn’t really travel to anywhere different. It’s just a different place on the planet, but same

everything else you know and Bali to me is definitely not that place especially for a person like me who grew up in Houston Texas you know big concrete jungle and then spent the last eight years after that in Austin Texas

And that’s really about it. I’ve traveled a handful but not ever really being immersed in a place like here in Bali. Like I’m looking at the jungle right now, trees and it’s pouring rain outside and we just rode through the rain. Ronnie didn’t even have a helmet and you know we were getting soaked and just going with the flow. Loving it.

Ronnie Landis
Yeah,

yeah, sounds like to me what you’re saying and what my experience has been of traveling is that unless you have a transformation of self, you haven’t really gone to a new environment or in my language a new algorithm. Which is just to me it’s just like the coding of the environment. It’s like you could call it the spirit, the personality, the…

matrix, the informational blueprint of the environment, which, as you’re alluding to, and my experience of coming to Bali, it’s like you have your own template, your own signature, your own personality, your own way of operating.

You can’t really superimpose that on to nature and then expect nature just to conform to your whims, your preferences, your comforts. You have to either do a dance or you have to completely surrender your kind of preferences altogether because…

there’s already a set template here. You have to get in flow and rhythm with the template that’s already here and see what it has for you. Otherwise it’s just going to be a lot of resistance.

Mike Chang
you as you’re saying that running this this lesson just came in mind that i share a lot with my students and i would sell them let people have their own experience of life let people have their own experience because so often we’re trying to impose our own ideas our own way of doing things because we think it’s better

when it comes to being in a place like Bali, I remember that when I was here, but for about the first year, I kept thinking, you know, they should do it different. They should do it this way. They should do it that way. They just do all of this stuff thinking that I knew better that somehow what they were doing was not as good that it that they should do it in a different way so they can get these different results and then upgrade their life because I knew how how to upgrade their life.

And the interesting thing is the longer that I stay, the more that I realized how wrong I was. And this is because instead of sitting there and just realizing that that thing that I actually teach people, which is let people have their own experience, but also realizing that I actually didn’t connect the dots and understood why things are happening the way they do here. I knew how it was in the States, but here I didn’t. But instead of sitting there and being

patient I go I get a little taste of it and go I think I know better and that mentality

doesn’t allow us to really surrender to be able to experience something new because our cup is full, so to speak. We think we know how to do everything. And I remember when I finally started, the more I realized that actually I didn’t know why they were doing things they did because I would learn it and I go, well, I didn’t, I didn’t realize that was the reason. And I didn’t realize this and I didn’t realize this. And then slowly I started to judge less and less on how people are doing things. And over time it became,

you know, I actually start to understand why they operate the way they do and There’s nothing wrong with what they are doing. Could they change? Yes, they could but it’s not necessary and they wanted to they could but it’s not like this idea that they’re Doing things in some backwards kind of way, which was you know, how I was seeing in my head at first

Ronnie Landis
That’s a really important perspective, especially for anyone out there that’s either a coach or an aspiring coach or mentor, leader, influencer of some sort. That’s a massive lesson that we all have to learn.

teachers or aspiring teachers or even teachers of ourself like we I feel like we have to learn that even with ourself because within the whole like advent of the personal development self-help industry the spiritual industry Which is amazing in a lot of ways, but there’s a there’s a heavy shadow side to it There’s like this strange neurosis that develops where we can be so hard on ourself and in create these like

subtle shame, fear, guilting kind of programs because we don’t feel like we are where we should be, according to some sort of standard that we’re setting for ourselves or someone else is setting for ourselves.

You know, it’s like, who’s to say that this moment is not actually perfect? Who’s to say that where I’m at is not perfect, even if I don’t aspire right now for another level?

Mike Chang
You know, I think to be able to really let go and allow this to really happen naturally, right? Some people have a certain level of masculinity and then there’s a certain level of feminine energy and we all, male and females have both. To let that naturally be expressed, need to let go of trying to control ourselves.

Ronnie Landis
That’s it.

Mike Chang
And therefore the expression is natural. And it changes, it’s not fixed. Sometimes we’re gonna be more masculine in certain projects, in certain roles, in certain times, and vice versa. Sometimes we’ll be a little more feminine because it’s appropriate, or just because that’s the way we’re feeling at that moment. But when we let go of this idea of constantly trying to control the outcome, we also let go of the idea of how we should show up every time.

And then something magical happens. When we let go of the control of ourself and we just let ourselves be, then we let others be as well. And now nobody’s trying to control anybody nor themselves. So now we have as a whole bunch of people in a room who are actually being authentic to each other. Who really doesn’t give a shit on how someone acts or is because they are okay with how things are. They’re so okay with it that they are okay with how they are. And if they don’t like something, then they just walk away. They just leave.

There’s no big deal. There’s no hurt feelings. They weren’t ever attached to any really sort of outcome This is this is this idea of a real freedom among people living within a group. That’s very very different We can all be different and when we let go of the control idea now our differences Just flows with each other sometimes they vibes and you see clusters of people get together because there’s certain likeness that tracks and Others it will repulse against each other and then they will separate and it does

happens naturally. Imagine like how many people try to come together because they’re trying to control themselves to come together saying I want to be with this person or I want this person to be my friend because of XYZ even though this person gets

Ronnie Landis
Sort

of agendined or woven into it. Yeah.

Mike Chang
It

creates these inauthentic relationships. creates a sense of force inside of us to try to do something that doesn’t feel very, very natural and genuine.

Ronnie Landis
I have a strange, I mean it’s not strange but it’s framed in a strange way but I think you might get it. What’s the difference between forcing something and the proverbial force as in like Yoda, the force. Like what is the difference between forcing and being tapped into the force?

Mike Chang
So let’s first let’s talk about Yoda’s force. And then so the force, right? What is the force for you guys, all the Jedi fans out there? And it’s been a while, I’m a Jedi fan, but you know, I haven’t watched Star Wars in a little bit. So force, we can say the force is energy. I think that could be one way of defining it.

Ronnie Landis
Right.

Mike Chang
It’s the energy that’s inside of us and around us. And in movies of Star Wars and Jedi’s, both Jedi’s and the Siths have developed the ability to connect to this energy, feel the energy, and therefore use the energy, manipulate this energy. Hence the special abilities that a Jedi and Sith can do. So that…

versus us forcing ourselves is now when we really define it becomes very very different same word but very different forcing ourselves basically means we don’t we don’t want to do something we don’t desire to do something but yet we still

force ourselves to do it we still do it despite having resistance on the inside one part of us says yes i need to do it because of xyz reason and the other part of us is going no i don’t want to do it because of whatever reason whether or not we understand the reason or not but that resistance which happen when that resistance happens

then we force ourselves to do it because when without that resistance if all parts of us is saying yes there is no force it just becomes we do something but when one part is saying no and one part is saying yes

Now there’s force and that force actually comes from a differentiation between levels of thought. One part of our thought, loud thought says yes, our lower thought says no. Sometimes this can happen to where there’s a loud part of our thought that says yes and a loud part of our thought that says no, which means you have this.

famous devil on the shoulder and angel on the shoulder type of analogy or cartoon. We’ve all seen this and you know, being an R &H group and they’re kind of battling each other and that’s a representation of what’s happening in our mind. One part says yes, one part says no. Now there’s so many different variations and examples of this, this inconsistent, inconsistent and

direction or this inconsistent and desire more so that’s better way of saying inconsistent and desire within us because we can also say I want to do this but my feeling says no right there’s so many ways to describe this really the same thing but anytime when that happens the way that we experience this in our life is we have to force ourselves to actually do something whatever that thing is because of this inconsistent insight

Ronnie Landis
That sounds a lot like self-sabotage, what we think of it, like having two competing desires or two competing forces that are diametrically opposed to each other.

Mike Chang
Yes, exactly. And I think when we look at sometimes when we, if we look at self-sabotage, we can say that we want something and that we’re stopping ourselves from getting it. If we dive deeper into this and we look at it, we can ask ourselves, did we really want, really want this thing or were, or was it that one part of us want it and really another part of us did not want it.

Ronnie Landis
Right, so there’s like a, almost like an identity conflict that hasn’t fully integrated yet.

Mike Chang
Right, right. We can say one part maybe wanted and one part didn’t or we can say that we wanted but another part of us is scared. Even though we wanted.

Ronnie Landis
I wanted to, not to cut you off, but I wanted to ask you about this distinction coming back to the thing around resistance. what is the distinction between moving through resistance

like in terms of like growth because obviously we need to we need to move past our capacity limit our threshold we can’t just stay in our comfort zone so everything the next level requires a new level of us so we have to grow there’s resistance we have to move through it in some way and then there’s also the resistance that i hear you talking about which is something deeper subconsciously within us that that

You get where I’m going with that?

Mike Chang
So it’s all resistance. If we have one level of our thoughts saying one thing and another of ours saying another, there’s resistance. If our emotions and our thoughts are different, there’s resistance.

Ronnie Landis
I guess, I’m sorry, I guess what I just wanted to clarify was the difference between resistance and effort. Like the effort it takes to do something that’s uncomfortable versus resistance that is indicating like a misalignment in the action.

Mike Chang
So let’s take a look at this, right? The resistance it takes in the sense of effort versus misalignment. they are one of the same. There’s not really much of difference. The resistance on the inside because of one part of us saying yes and the other part of us saying no, the effect of that is the resistance on the outside, which is

literally we may even feel like we are stuck or we are moving in like a thick muddy water to where our movements are like being resisted. can’t physically even move forward fast. Sometimes we experience it physically this way. But yeah, they’re one of the same. They’re just effects of each other.

Ronnie Landis
Yeah, so in other words, like say for example, going to the gym. This is an easy example. Like for me going to the gym, there’s really no resistance and I’m gonna go and push myself past my boundaries. Not my boundaries, that’s the wrong word, but my comfort zone. Like I’m not going there to hang out. I’m gonna go there and work out as hard as I can, but I don’t have a resistance to doing that, even though there’s gonna be hard work involved.

Mike Chang
Okay, so.

Ronnie Landis
And I think

what I’m trying to get at for everyone listening is that distinction between genuine resistance and hard work. for me, working hard is great, but I think a lot of people get that confused. Like if something’s hard, that means that it’s out of alignment.

Mike Chang
Right, that’s a good point. Hard work does not equate to resistance. They are actually entirely…

Ronnie Landis
So

that was the whole thing I’ve been trying to catch.

Mike Chang
And by

the way, these are for you guys listening like it’s a We’re diving into some very very specific things, you know, which is Which I’m guessing because we’re talking about this. This is people that are actually doing the work because These are not very general questions at all We’re talking about this is like people are in the work and going okay because this will come up and this is a very valid thing What’s the difference so?

Hard work is simply we have something that we want to do and we do it and the act of doing it, it may be energetically exhausting for our mind, for our body, maybe for our emotions because we’re handling a lot of challenges.

there is no part of us that is stopping ourselves. It’s almost like, say you’re, let’s say you’re running, you’re running and there is a lot of obstacles around you. There’s big boulders and then there’s also some quick sand around and then it’s pouring rain. Then rain is one of those diagonal rains just kind of coming at you, you know, like how we work on the scooter driving here.

Ronnie Landis
Yeah.

Mike Chang
Yeah, so then there’s, so it’s tough, but we don’t have any resistance on the inside. We are still operating at full speed, but we can’t seem to move fast because there’s a lot of obstacles on the outside. It’s challenging and we’re going uphill. Now.

that we can say it’s hard work so we go as hard as we can and we get energetically exhausted it’s just part of part of doing that but this inner resistance is when whether or not all these obstacles are happening on the outside or if it’s just a flat road in a sunny day nice weather everything is fine there’s no real obstacles on the outside but inside

there is one part of us that is trying to walk the other direction or run the other direction. And then there’s one part of us is trying to run forward. The other one is running the other direction. So there’s no obstacles on the outside, but yet we can’t seem to move forward. And this can be seen. I think it next to make this into a very practical thing that somebody can can connect the dots to imagine that you have something like something that you have all the skillsets to do. Like let’s say writing a, an email.

that’s not a very long email. Let’s say if it’s like maybe like a know 10 sentence email or something you know it’s just a response you just need to respond. It’ll take you less than three minutes to respond. You know what it is you want to say or what you need to say and what needs to happen after that but somehow you don’t do it. You read it you could have responded in three minutes or less I mean honestly it probably could have been 30 seconds depending on your typing speed and you would have been done.

But instead of doing that, you wait. You wait and then you judge it and you go, I’m not ready to do this right now. Let me wait till a little later when I’m in the mood, when I feel like doing it. That is a representation that you are in smooth ground, whether it’s nice, everything is fine on the outside, but there is inner resistance that doesn’t allow you to do something that you are fully 100 % capable of doing at that very moment.

But because of the inner resistance, don’t do something so simple. Now the same example applies, but now let’s say same email to make it very very apple to apple type of situation. Same email, you got to respond, but someone else is right next to you that’s going asking you a question and you’ve got less than five minutes before you need to go on and film a video and camera crew is waiting going, hey dude, you got five minutes. You go, okay.

Somebody’s asking you a question and this email seem to be kind of urgent and you want to respond but you’re having to deal with these outside obstacles and somebody is trying to go ahead and prompt you on what you need to say in front of camera. So you go there’s a lot of obstacles. Can you knock this out that email? Technically you could. You can just go okay really quick. It takes you 30 seconds. You’re done which gives you four and half minutes left to juggle everything else. But you see that’s real resistance because you got real obstacles. The other one right.

Ronnie Landis
Right, okay.

This is yeah. Yeah, there was a little tangent, but I’m not gonna go on that. That’s that’s so perfectly stated.

Yeah, this thing around resistance is really interesting. mean, I’ve coached hundreds of people over the years and so much comes up, especially like in the health conversation, people talking about doing different diets or cleansing programs or coming across different health challenges. Here’s an interesting thing that comes up when we talk about subconscious beliefs and conscious affirmations and the dichotomy between the two when they’re not congruent.

So for example, somebody, think Dr. John Demartini talked about this, giving this example where he was working with somebody who, she was some obese woman in a wheelchair. I don’t remember what the condition was other than the fact that she was obese. And he talked to her about her healing. And so consciously she said, I want to heal. But then when the, when the, whatever the prescription, the…

The thing was, she would sabotage it and she wouldn’t do it. Now he would probe her and ask her deeper once he finally got to the real root of the issue and she said, well to be honest, it would be nice to heal and get out of the wheelchair but I’m getting way too much value out of it.

Because if I get out of this wheelchair, what’s going to happen to the woman that takes care of me? She’s the only person that she is in relationship with. Therefore, the value that she was getting out of her condition of being unhealthy is that she was being taken care of by somebody. So she was afraid that if she got healthy, she would lose that attachment.

Mike Chang
So in a situation like this, number one, first thing she needs to do is come to a different perspective or understanding. Perspective we can say may not get there immediately. Understanding could. That means, let’s say, if she was in front, we tell her, okay, yes, I understand. That is what will happen. You may lose this woman that’s taking care of you and all that. And then we would talk about now, imagine how your life would be if you got out of the wheelchair. Imagine how your life would be if you got healthy.

Imagine all the things you really want to do and then is it really worth it to sacrifice all of that just so you can have this woman here taking care of you? Think about this, think about that. So we go through these explanations and then she goes, you know what? You’re right. Now at this time, this could be, say, technically the first time she came to realization, connected to docs, they go, you know what? You’re right. Yeah, I’ve been just avoiding this.

But in reality, I really want to do this and I now understand that there’s a lot of other things I’m saying no to. Now, she’s not going to remember this because she only knows this right now because let’s say she’s right here in front of us and we’re telling her and we’re planting this vision, this idea, this perspective.

Ronnie Landis
the

dominant program is going to take over.

Mike Chang
Exactly. Yeah. So then she needs to go ahead and hear this another 30, 50 times. She needs to have discussions on it. She needs to wrap her head around it. She really needs to get familiar with this viewpoint. Now, next step, she’s familiar with the viewpoint. So now that means she has a actual desire, not just a desire, but she actually understands why she needs to get out of this wheelchair and stop taking the meds or whatever it is. So now at this point, she’s going to

do her best not to self-sabotage but she still will self-sabotage.

But at least she understands when she does sabotage herself she goes this is why I need to get things right because Insert new belief insert Ronnie and Mike gave her belief Four months ago that now she can properly explain it to somebody because she understands it now again She has not been able to actually move forward Actively because she’s still sabotaging herself But at least she has an understanding in her mind of why she wants to

forward but she can’t stop the sabotage yet. You see that’s the first step and then there’s step two.

And then there’s step three, know, step two. Now, now we’re talking about, okay, so now that you actually have a desire, well now let’s go ahead and see what little baby steps we can do to change certain habits, right? To go ahead and change certain environments, exit certain people out of your life or vice versa, bring certain people in. So this way you can actually start to move forward and start to create some change in your physical self and your life. But you don’t have your

what I call level one thoughts, which is the loud conversational voice in your head. You don’t have those thoughts going against you. Those thoughts are on your side now and it’s aligned. But how come a person still has resistance? Because level two and three is not aligned. And you can’t align those yet because those are too deep.

Ronnie Landis
So you don’t even have access to it.

Mike Chang
You

can’t access it yet, but it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s just part of the process. But now somebody’s changing their behaviors. They’re changing their diets or changing these things. And now they’re able to move forward. And now when they move forward, they go, wow, okay, my life is changing now. Now I really want to, I feel that, know, Ronnie, I feel like there’s this resistance still inside of me.

I’m making the changes. I’m eating a little healthier. I’m still in this wheelchair, but you know what? I’m getting outside every day. I’ve been living in this house now for the last seven years and I’ve went outside only about once every six months. And you know what? Every day I’ve been outside. Every day I’m getting fresh air and every day I get to stand up for about 10 minutes, which I haven’t done in seven years. So we can say it’s a huge progression. Yeah. But I want to do more now. And Ronnie, I’m afraid I’m now very, I’m I’m very

conscious than I’m afraid but I want to do more because I realized the reasons why remember how you told me six months ago that I’m gonna miss out on all this part of life yes I don’t want to miss out on this life you see so at this point she understands why she wants to do it she’s taken action and she’s moved forward and created actual physical change in her life but now she still has resistance

So now this is when we go, okay, so let’s go ahead and talk about how to get rid of this next level of resistance. And this next level of resistance is coming from both your head thoughts, what I call level two thoughts, which are basically just lower volume thoughts. They’re like a whisper. They’re like a sound that’s in the background that you can only hear when

Ronnie Landis
doubtful little voices that creep in.

Mike Chang
It sounds like an echo almost sometimes. Yeah. And those thoughts are powered or we can say anchored by emotions, energy. This is why body and mind is the same.

Ronnie Landis
one just kind

of like cognitive level it’s just

Mike Chang
It’s still energy. There’s energy anchoring level one thoughts. There’s energy anchoring level two and vice versa on level three. And so when we get a person to start to change your energy on level one, surface stuff, fitness, getting out there, moving more, just all this general movement, getting healthier.

Ronnie Landis
eccentric.

Mike Chang
They change the

surface level of their energy. therefore they can start to change the surface level of their thoughts, level one thoughts. But they still have resistance when they want to do more. And then so we do the same thing. We now change level two, but level two is different than level one. Level one, you just move around, eat a little healthier, get some sleep, and you’re clearing level one. Level two involves having to take your attention and go deeper within your body. You have to actually feel more now.

Ronnie Landis
So now we’re going into the realm of like meditation, breath work, somatic trauma release, somatic optimization work, if you will. Just like really, so like I’m so kind of making sense of this framework from level one, the way that I’m reading it and tracking it is like we’re working with the body at a particular level of

getting the cellular machinery and the physiology into movement which obviously affects everything else getting your diet tuned up like the basics the absolute basics that make everything physically run and then level 2 is now you’re still it’s still the physical body this technically it’s all physicality in different dimensional kind of frames but now it’s like it’s a deeper level where the emotional body resides

Mike Chang
Yes, and I want to point out something very, very specific, which by the way, as we go deeper and deeper, specificity is important. On level one, the specific thing that a person does not actually need to do and still will accomplish level one of releasing emotions and changing energy is they just need to do the movement stuff like you said.

but their attention to their body does not have to be deep. They don’t have to be very present. It’s almost like if you just mechanically do this stuff, your mind can be on XYZ and you will be able to change your energy on that first.

Ronnie Landis
kind of more, it’s crude in a sense.

If you

don’t really walk very much, going for a walk around the park or something, it’s kind of the level in which we’re talking about.

Mike Chang
Right, and we can call it general fitness. Now when we start to get into breath work, meditation, all these things, what happens right now with the general public is people are doing these activities, but they’re approaching it in a level one style.

Ronnie Landis
okay, got it.

Mike Chang
See in this

level one style to be very specific again is they are not bringing their attention full attention into their body or we can say they are not connecting their mind and body together

Or we can say they’re not bringing their attention and connecting it, observing the feeling sensation. The feeling sensation, the vibrational frequency, that movement that you feel in your body when you take your attention and you bring it deep in your body, you’re going to feel two movements. One movement is going to be the energy. It will vibrate and another one is your heartbeat.

and you will feel, you will feel it’s a, and it’s a pulse, it’s a actual rhythm, right? It’s not like the movement of blood. That doesn’t have the same type of rhythm. This rhythm, either your heartbeat or your vibrational frequency, it’s there in your body. And when you bring your attention there, now you can access level two and then eventually go to three. In level one, you don’t need to do that. You literally are doing the mechanical movements. Whether the mechanical movements is general health stuff, jogging, running, all this stuff.

Or if it’s quote healing work like you know doing holotropic breath or you know whim or you know massage and all this stuff meditation, yoga, all of these if it’s approached without the full attention to inside the body then it becomes mechanical just like level one and a person will not be able to go very deep.

into level 2. They just start to kind of tap into it. And this is where, this is why everybody that’s applying this, they’re usually not able to get very far. But it still helps. It’s more than just going for a jog and hitting the gym. But people are looking for a solution. They’re going…

What can I do to make this more effective? It has worked, it has helped, but what can I do to make it more effective? And that’s the answer here we’re talking about today. Bring your attention into your body and feel your body more, feel your body longer. I have these conversations that somebody tells me and I ask them, you know, how do you get rid of emotions? They go, well, you gotta accept it. And go, how do you accept emotions? And they go, well, you know, when I’m angry, I accept.

And I go, well, what do you mean you accept? Do you verbally say it your mind, I accept? Well, yeah, I say I accept, and then afterwards I feel it, and then afterwards I move on with my life and do whatever.

I go, okay, so how long do you feel it? They go, well, you know, I’m just, I observe it and it’s there. And once I observe it and accept it, then I move on and I go, okay, person, this is where, this is where your, your, your mistake, you know, this is where you’re getting stuck at your brief encounter with that emotion of whether it’s one minute or five minutes is not long enough. Therefore you did not really accept it. You accept it.

Ronnie Landis
intellectualizing

it. It’s almost like they were just about there but then their mind hijacked it and then created a framework and it’s like, okay I got it, I can move on.

Mike Chang
Yeah, it’s like a person didn’t accept this emotion for the last 30 years and then now they go accept it for five minutes. Yep, I accepted it. Now let me move on. No, no, no, no, no. You gotta stay with that emotion. How long? The truth is until that emotion, that feeling is gone.

Ronnie Landis
Yeah.

comes in waves. That’s another thing you guys, especially if you’re like genuinely grieving and let’s say, say before you’ve had a string of relationships that you just cycle out of and move on to the next thing. Where’s the, where’s the processing? Where’s the backlogging of processing or lot of loved ones that you just didn’t know how to grieve and feel and go through that cycles of our life, past identities. There’s a lot of backlogged emotional data.

inside all of us. And so as we go through the authentic healing process, we start feeling and releasing and purging things that we don’t even really know what’s coming out. But the important thing I’m hearing from you is that you just, you, you allow for the experience to happen versus trying to categorize it or, just hijack it and say like, I got it.

Mike Chang
So that’s a good thing. So then to define what we’re talking about now, It’s I’m feeling this emotion and I’ve got this trauma that’s popping up in my head. I got this person, I got this event that happened, which happens a lot of time because they’re connected, right? Thoughts, events, all this stuff is connected to the energy, the emotion.

Do we A, go into our mind and revisit this event, fully accept this person for what they did or what you did and all that or B, keep your attention in your body and fully feel it until the emotion is gone. So my response to that is B, fully feel it until it’s gone. Now, why? Why don’t we dive in? Because we could understand all of this and all of that.

Yes, we can understand it, but understanding it doesn’t actually release the emotion. The emotion will still be there, therefore bring it up again. And then even if you understand it again, you have to still feel the emotion. can’t bypass that. We can’t bypass releasing emotions by not feeling it. Feeling it is the way of releasing. It’s not like sometimes I feel it to release it. No, that is the process of releasing.

But what will happen here is that when a person releases the emotion, because they continue to do this process and they feel now they’re at peace. The sensation is gone. Maybe the second wave is not going to come for another week. But now at this moment, they’re at peace. Now in this moment of peace, let’s say that thought comes back, that person comes back, the situation comes back up. Now,

Do they have more emotions to release? If they do, that means the emotion comes back up. They repeat the process again or continue the process. If the emotion doesn’t come back up because they released this wave of emotions, but now the thought still comes up. Now they can look at the thought. Now they can look at the situation. But the difference in looking at it right now. Now here’s the thing for you guys that really actually want to do the work. Listen very, very carefully.

The difference when looking at this event in your past now is that you are looking at it in a state of ease and peace. Earlier, if you were to look at the event when it popped up, you were still in that emotional charge. Therefore, you’re looking at it through the lens of whatever emotion you’re experiencing.

Ronnie Landis
without the charge.

Mike Chang
So you’re not going to get a very accurate or full picture of what really happened. You still have a filter. So you don’t want to do that. You want to see the truth without all of the filters and judgments and all the stuff, which is why you don’t entertain them while you’re still emotionally charged. You wait till the charge is completely gone. And then when it comes back, because if it doesn’t come back, you’re fine.

Ronnie Landis
Right, and that’s evidence in of itself. So that’s an interesting point too. I had that experience yesterday where I wanted to send an audio message and I was going through a wave of something and it was really like, it was big. And then I moved through the thing fully, didn’t send the message, and afterwards I was like, I’m really glad I didn’t send that message. Nice. Because it was like a need that I thought I had.

that was about somebody very close to me and something that needed to be communicated but by actually just going through it and allowing myself to have the dialogue within myself and feel the full emotion and move through it I came out of it and I actually saw that person later and I thought to myself I am so glad I did not send that message and put that on them

Mike Chang
Because at the moment when you’re making the message, correct me if I’m wrong, you were feeling the emotions.

Ronnie Landis
That’s right. That’s right. Which by the way was great for, was good for me to feel the emotion because it’s authentic, it’s real, it’s sincere. And I think, and there’s that the under behind that, that wanting to reach out was the wanting to reach out for connection, right? But it would have been completely inappropriate of me to put that on them as if they’re responsible for what I’m feeling.

Mike Chang
And by doing the message, that’s one way of…

bring the emotion to the surface and starting to release it. When we bring this message up, by having this message, we basically are able to say the things we want to say. We’re fully experiencing that emotion. therefore we have to be, we’re feeling it and then we’re saying it and we’re feeling it and we’re saying it and all of this is helping the release process. So now that the release process, now once we said the things we need to say, there’s a sense of release because we felt the emotion and we

a chance to kind of understand and accept what happened. Now then at that point when there’s a sense of release, hence we are now more at peace with now our clean lens. We look at the message and go should I send this and we go maybe not.

Ronnie Landis
times how many times how many text messages have I had to go back and clean up after a highly charged whether it was positive negative inspirational down whatever that whatever the experience was how many times have I gone back and thought to myself

Well, it’s two things. Either I had total vulnerability hangover, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s not to say we shouldn’t reach out to people close to us when we feel, you know, we feel the need to communicate or express or have a safe space to do that. As long as we have people in our life that can hold that for us. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, because that gets a little slippery.

Mike Chang
The last part.

Yeah,

Ronnie Landis
Yeah, I’m glad we highlighted

that. That can and choose to. And say, yes, I can hold this with you. I don’t even remember. think that was probably the point right there.

Mike Chang
So I can personally say that I have sent out a lot of messages, voicemails, text messages, showed up and said things when I was emotionally charged and then later on once I released it and I am at peace realizing that was not a good idea.

And I’ve done it too many times to count. And this is why I know to not do that because I’ve done it that many times. And I think by sharing, maybe this could help somebody save, know, save a few times or more of making that. I don’t want to call it a mistake because I learned from it. But if you can learn from what it is that me and Ronnie is talking about, maybe you can, you know, help your life move forward.

Ronnie Landis
without creating further resistance and friction. And that in of itself is a self-sabotage tendency. How many more variables can I throw into my current experience? How many more things can I juggle? How many more plates can I spin psycho-emotionally to throw in more chaotic situations to avoid…

the things that I would do if I had more simplicity and less things that I have to navigate and track that are getting less excuses to make to write that email, to start that business, to get in the gym. Does that make sense? Like, I mean, I’m only reflecting as something I became aware of in my life a while ago where I realized like, there is a tendency to create or infuse

variables that introduce a little bit more chaos because as a child chaos and dysfunction was my normal environment.

Mike Chang
to help create clarity in this inner journey, to help create clarity to be able to move forward. I think it’s very important for people, for us, for everybody in general to have a focus. Have a focus and that focus, that specific outcome that a person is aiming towards

It should be something that can support all the other small steps, support all the other details. Because if we were to look at life and split it up into a hundred different scenarios, because what we are saying are very, very, very specific scenarios and also different pillars of life like relationship and business and personal and all of this, it would be too much for a person to…

put their attention to to remember in the event when it’s happening. I ran into this and when I realized that it’s too much to remember and I don’t know what to do and I’m confused and then now I put my attention to the wrong place. I eventually narrowed it down and found that there was only two things that I needed to give my attention to to overcome or to accomplish more of accomplish and then by doing so every other thing.

is taken care of. And this and this idea like this is a Gary Keller. love his book. I’ve read it many years ago. The one thing he’s know Keller Williams Realty is like that. He had I don’t know if he’s still but it was like the biggest realty company in North America at some point before. But he had a very simple concept which is what is the one thing that you can focus on or you can do.

Therefore by doing it, everything else becomes easier or unnecessary. And when I looked at it, at this transformation game, this journey, I realized it came down to two things. The first thing is be okay with who you are at this moment right now. okay with who you are at this moment. Another way of saying this is self-acceptance. Now to understand, to really understand this and see this in our life when we’re not doing it becomes the work. But you see,

That’s point at the self-acceptance. We’re not looking at a whole bunch of other stuff because by looking at that one thing, it creates a ripple effect that literally influences every single thing we’ve talked about. Every single thing we’ve talked about so far connects to this. And there is the second thing which supports how to become okay with who we are at this moment now, which is to release the emotions inside the body.

They release the trapped emotions and that’s it. And these two things will literally accomplish every single problem that you have. And not just some, every problem. Now I spent many, many years connecting the dots and the connecting the dots is very, very important. That’s what I can say without any doubt. All of my problems disappeared.

there’s no more problems. There’s no more resistance. And this is because when we look at the fundamentals of life, there’s only two things that we always need to do at every moment in life. And that is take action or don’t. Yeah, that’s it. That we can sum up like

Ronnie Landis
Hmm.

Huh.

Without

the stories and the narratives and all the other stuff we load on top of it. Mechanically, fundamentally.

Mike Chang
It’s all we actually need to do. And life is just a whole bunch of situations, events, are happening. And we only need to do one or the other.

Ronnie Landis
We spend

most of that time deliberating on whether we’re going to do something or not.

Mike Chang
Right, and that’s not, and by default then we pick the not do something. But what happens if we actually needed to do something but we didn’t do it? So you see we’re now in this middle area and that middle area gets us stuck, it gets us confused and…

Ronnie Landis
That’s me realize how strange of a predicament we’ve all

is really bringing up for me is something that I’ve been observing within myself but also like on the landscape of humanity meaning like just observing the the tendencies that we have within a culture that’s so technocentric and so convenience based where we have opulent abundance

Provided to us at all all means we don’t have to go out into an environment to hunt or procure food We don’t really have to struggle unless we want to unless it’s voluntary where we can sit on our couch and pontificate and philosophize and create like you know, whatever whatever ideas or fantasies in our head and we don’t have to necessarily lift a finger and it’s created a situation where we even have to have a conversation about the simple nature of

doing or not doing which I think was like was that Bruce Lee or was that Yoda? One of them said you do or do not do. That was Yoda.

Mike Chang
Yoda’s one is there’s only like there’s no try there’s only do right

Ronnie Landis
Yeah.

Right.

Mike Chang
When life is that simple, which in reality it is, it really is that simple, it brings a sense of clarity. Well, clarity for what? Well, a clarity to get unstuck, move forward. A clarity to decide between two choices or more. And we look at life in another way, which is…

Life is you don’t want to be stuck. You want to move forward. You’re always moving forward. No matter what direction I seem to be. Life is about making choices and decisions, which you do every day and the ability to move forward, the ability to make choices. How do we know how to do that? What do we know what is right and wrong? So now imagine that the way that we make these choices.

is we go into our head and we think about a whole bunch of stuff and we analyze and all these things. If we do this too much, then what we’re basically saying unconsciously is I don’t care what’s going on in front of me. I only care about what’s going on in my head. Right. I don’t care about what he’s he said, she said, how they’re feeling, what’s happening, what’s actually

Ronnie Landis
That’s it.

happening. What’s actually happening.

Mike Chang
I only care about what’s going on in my head. only care about my opinion, my idea, my experience, my values, right? And I’m going to make a decision. I’m going to take action or not take action based on what’s in my head.

Ronnie Landis
That’s

a that’s that’s a hit that hits hard

Mike Chang
instead

of what is actually happening in front of you.

Ronnie Landis
And that’s

the cause of so many relationship issues.

Mike Chang
It’s not that we don’t use our mind. Our mind is a tool. But when we are only dependent on our mind and therefore only living off of our own perspective and we don’t actually see what is happening, our choices aren’t they’re not the best choice we can make. They’re not they’re not serving all they may only serve self.

And when we only serve ourself, we only receive from self and we don’t receive from other people. And in life, you want to not just receive from your own self, you want to receive from everybody else. So what do do? You give to everybody else. How do you do that? By opening your eyes and looking at the situation and seeing what is the best choice for all. This is like the, the, the old saying of instead of creating this, I win and you lose. Why don’t we create the win-win and then that elaborated with, why don’t we create a win-win

win and then that can kind of keep going. don’t everybody wins? Nobody loses. Well, how do we even get close to that? Let’s actually look at what is happening and let’s see. And let’s see how can we do our best to do that. It’s a very simple thing. I think when we really take a clear look at it, why would anybody not?

take a look at what’s really happening and use the combination of their experience, their ideas, their thoughts, all this stuff in their head combined with what is happening and now they can make the best choice to take action or not take action.

Ronnie Landis
This is a really deep thing that you’re laying out and it’s already been a deep delayering of this kind of like rabbit hole of the psyche and bringing us back from that rabbit hole and back into embodiment essentially. Like what’s happening in my body, what’s happening in my physical environment, what’s happening objectively, empirically that I can see in front of me, I can feel within me.

I there’s like, I’m tempted to go even deeper with you. The constraints of time or the perception of time, I should say, my perceptual constraints of time are coming in, but I feel like I wanna bring in one more element for you to tie this in. The term that’s coming up for me around this whole conversation is reparenting.

process of reparenting. Maybe that’s because I’m going through that process myself. And having that context really helped me to understand what the impulse inside me as a man has been to like really take even more responsibility for my life, my experience, my decisions. And then I realized, that makes sense. You’re actually retemplating the father void that you never had.

So like the voice in my head started to come off more as like a stern father. Like, you don’t feel like it? Great. And you’re still going to do it. Like I’d start to hear this and I would, but I felt good. It felt like actually really good to talk to myself in this way. So, yeah, I’m just curious what you think about that. Like the concept of reparenting and if that lands for what we’re talking about.

Mike Chang
There’s a certain stage in our growth where this is necessary and this is very helpful. And so when we’re in that stage, we do it. And then when we get out of that stage, we stop.

Ronnie Landis
Okay.

Mike Chang
And so what stage would this be? Well, this will be in the stage that the reparenting is basically to where we are developing certain thoughts in our mind. Whether or we want to go ahead and give a name to this thought, put a figure, an entity behind this thought, give it a persona, an avatar, et cetera, and all the different names. Whether or not we do that is fine, but…

The way that we are thinking, our belief system, that has to change. Because we go from not being aware that there’s a separation between us, the consciousness, the awareness, and the thoughts. We think we are thoughts. And then, therefore, we are constantly in this state of just doing things and constantly reacting to our feelings and our mind. That’s that stage one.

And therefore then we move into stage two to where we’re actually becoming aware of our thoughts. We become aware of our behaviors, aware of our habits, aware of the beliefs, and we realize that we can make a change. We realize that they were created in all of these different events of the past and that we can make a change now. So now in the process of making a change, we need to go ahead and basically let go of the ones that aren’t aligned in our life. They don’t help us move to the direction we want to go and insert the ones that do.

So now, how do we do that? There’s a lot of different methods and ways, but that’s the general idea. Whatever does not align in our life moving forward, take it out of your head and insert the ones that do.

So then now what you’re talking about is having the father figure or having this to be somebody else. Now, so this is important. So now, now somebody has the right or the helpful thoughts, what we can call positive thoughts, right? They have these thoughts in their mind. So now it can help them make better decisions. It can help them, you know, see in a better way.

Ronnie Landis
developmental stage.

huh.

personally starting to see how my orientation is entering into that space. Not fully, not fully, but it’s I still I’m feeling there’s actually a genuine desire in yearning where before there wasn’t that calling or maybe the calling wasn’t there was there but I wasn’t feeling that desire where now I’m actually feeling a genuine desire to start moving in that direction.

Okay, well this is definitely gonna be a level one podcast which I know which which has gone many levels and And this is this is this is the the tie the bow moment This is a lot to take in even even for me like I’m none of this is concepts. I’m unfamiliar with at all, but

just your cadence, your embodiment, just authenticity and the presence in which you share it. It’s also like positioning me, or I shouldn’t say it’s presencing me to me. I’m actually witnessing my own energetic in response to it. like, oh yeah, interesting. There’s some wiggle room there. There’s a process I’m going through as I’m sitting here with you in this space, recording with all of you listening to this.

which is powerful and so anyways, okay, well, well.

What would you say for everyone listening, maybe even myself included, how would you integrate this, everything that we’ve talked about right now?

Amazing brother, really appreciate all that. And where can people find more about you and also the program that you offer to help people go through this?

Thank you so much for joining me.