Ronnie Landis: Welcome to another episode of the life mastery podcast. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis, and we have a really important conversation lined up for you today. I don’t know who needs to hear this conversation, but I know that somebody, if not many, somebodies. Is going to get so much value out of this We are tackling a topic that is very taboo in our society And is yet so critically important and when it comes to addiction, especially when it comes to men struggling with addiction this topic of pornography and sex addiction and sexual trauma And many of the other things that I get into with my guest are so part and parcel to so much of the suffering that many, many, many, many, many men and women as a direct consequence of men suffering are dealing with.

And so my guest is a friend of mine. He’s a colleague. His name is Zack Blakeney. And we did this podcast. A number of months ago and it’s finally coming out and it was a very unique situation because I actually did a neuromuscular release session with him right before we did the podcast. So essentially what that means is that I was unlocking the different compartments of his physical body and opening up energetic kinetic energy throughout his whole body.

That’s a whole thing that. You know, we get into in other podcasts, what is neuromuscular release therapy? Basically, it is the most advanced form of medical grade body work that I specialize in. And so we did that session and then we jumped right into the podcast. And I think that just made the interview that much more interesting and fascinating because Zack really shares what his direct experience was like of going through pornography and the programming of it and the direct experience that he had from a very very early age what led to developing that addiction and then what was the experience that he went through going through his formative years into his adulthood, and he shares some very vulnerable stories that I don’t know if a lot of people can relate to, but it definitely illuminates the severity of this problem.

And then we get into the nuts and bolts of how to unwind from essentially the black magic spell of pornographic programming that has befallen society, and especially Befallen the consciousness in the impressionable minds of boys becoming men And if anyone is dealing with such an issue This podcast is exactly for you Maybe if you’re not dealing with it But you know somebody is or you’re a woman that’s partnered with a man or you have a son or a brother or a family friend or a colleague or a client or a patient that’s dealing with this.

This is going to illuminate many different dimensions of the psychological, spiritual, biochemical phenomenon that takes place with people that are struggling with pornography and, and other addictions, by the way, it’s, it’s a transferable and universal set of themes that we talk about. That are directly applicable to dealing with any kind of self sabotage, any kind of addiction.

But it also really shines a light on one of the biggest pervading addictions in our society that often times is just Put underneath the rug. It’s just put in the closet not to be talked about and it’s really societally accepted And it is a major issue. So we tackle that issue and we approach it from many different Angles, and I think that you are not only going to enjoy This episode, I think you’re going to be inspired by Zack’s vulnerability and how he was able to overcome this through just radical honesty, radical vulnerability, and radical self responsibility and accountability and who Zack has become on the other end of this.

is one of the most incredible human beings that I know. And I work with him in neuromuscular release therapy very often. He’s a client of mine, but he’s also a very good friend. And I’ve seen him grow and evolve so much since we’ve been working together. And he’s just a very inspiring human being that I think you will get a lot out of and get to learn from here.

So without further ado, enjoy this episode with me and my friend, Zack Blakeney. Zack Blakeney, welcome to the show. 

Zack Blakeney: Thanks a lot, brother. It’s an honor to be with you, brother. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, it’s an honor to be with you too. Yeah, it’s been good getting to know you, uh, the last couple of interactions that we’ve had.

And, uh, this is an interesting podcast to be jumping into. 

Zack Blakeney: I’m excited, man. I’m gonna dive into some things that, uh, I think would be really valuable for the listeners. 

Ronnie Landis: 100%. 100%. And So just for the listeners, this is the first time I’ve done a podcast or coming right out of doing a neuromuscular release therapy session with a friend, a colleague, a client, and we did a two hour deep dive session.

That wasn’t like a little thing. So just to be like, Phase shifting right into a podcast. It makes sense and it’s perfect. Um, and it’s also a new experience. I want to give that context for all the listeners, how epic and special this conversation is about to be. 

Zack Blakeney: Well, yeah, I mean, now that I’m first to come out of this type of therapy, man, it was, I gotta say again, it was transformative, uh, healing, um, the way that you work through the body and the way that source works through you Uh, is a perfect match and uh, definitely create a space that was great for me to feel safe to release Uh and to feel rejuvenated.

I mean literally you say it’s like having a new body And that’s exactly what I feel like amazing. So you can’t say it any better than that 

Ronnie Landis: Cool. Yeah. Thanks for that feedback. Okay. So let’s get into your work. You know, when you and I connected at our friend Jason’s house the other night on Christmas, I think it was one of the Christmas.

Yeah. Christmas. Yeah. Something like that. Um, let’s go. Yeah, let’s go with Christmas. So we connected and I realized that I had actually seen some of your YouTube videos a while back when I was doing research. pornography, particularly for a book that I’m working on called the dopamine solution, but for a program that I’m getting ready to launch called the porn reboot roadmap.

And so, you know, I was just going online and looking at different perspectives and different ideas that people have and different processes that people have gone through. And I stumbled on your work. I didn’t realize it until we got to talking. And then, um, immediately I was like, Oh, I need to get you on the podcast.

We need to talk about this. So I don’t know exactly where to start. I know your body of work is so much bigger than that. And that is part of your story. So I’d love to just kind of just get into your story a little bit and then we’ll get into like your real body of work. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. So my story is very common for most men.

Um, Especially my age. How old are you? I’m 37. Okay. I didn’t know how old I was for a second. Uh, but with that, I was 14 in the year 2000. Uh, and the year 2000 is where we moved from AOL dial up internet to broadband internet. And I like to call that the birth of internet pornography. Because at that point, the high speed videos started to get thrown on there.

And it was kind of a perfect storm for me because being 14, I was curious, horny, horny, horny, horny, horny, horny, horny. And I had been told not to watch it. So, uh, if you tell any human being, especially a child, not to do something, the first thing that happens is they have a curious, a curiosity of why. And at the time my parents, nor the religion that I followed, uh, had any sort of answer other than it’s a sin and you shouldn’t do that.

So, uh, we were also privileged enough to have, you know, the brand new computer and I had a basement to my own. Uh, so I started to explore. And what I found was exactly what I was looking for. It was really easy to find. And my parents did what they could with Safe Search. Like they caught on to like what I was doing, but I like to say I was too smart for my own good.

And I had to find ways to get around it. So this is before devices, right? Like cell phones. I didn’t really have the touch of my fingers. Um, but, uh, it started to become something that, uh, became habitual. Yeah. And, at the time, when I was 14, I had no idea it was 16 year addiction, right? 16 years, wow. Yeah, there was a lot of innocence inside of it of just exploring and being curious.

And, uh, by the time I got to college, I had my own laptop, so there’s step one. Uh, and I had my own right, because I was with some roommates at the time. And that’s where really it got bad. Yeah. I started to explore different genres. Um, and again, we’ll, we’ll talk about like what I found after healing, but at the time I was very confused.

Um, you know, I’d say there’s a jungle of different stuff out there, you know, BDSM, you can get to rape porn, um, uh, even like, you know, homosexual porn. And I watched homosexual porn as a heterosexual man. I’ll tell you, that was very interesting at the time. It didn’t take until healing at this point for me to know.

And be grounded in my sexuality. So, uh, in college I started to experience, uh, some of the really painful side effects of porn addiction. And one of those is porn induced erectile dysfunction. Just thinking that, yeah. So I’m in my early twenties. Uh, I’m also not a bad looking dude, like women typically like me and, uh, you know, going into sexual experiences and not being able to get an erection, or if I could not, uh, keeping one long enough after intercourse to do anything about it.

Uh, so there was two things that were happening. One, I mean this is all, this is all psychological, but my body wasn’t performing based off of the psychological remapping of my sexual attraction to, uh, porn. And then I started getting the anxiety, the performance anxiety, and I started beating myself up simultaneously of having so much fear of like, you’re in your early 20s and you can’t get an erection.

Ronnie Landis: What’s wrong with you? 

Zack Blakeney: Exactly. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Zack Blakeney: So that was actually why I started to dive into homosexual porn. 

Ronnie Landis: Because my 

Zack Blakeney: mind said, well, maybe you don’t like women, and maybe you should start exploring in this way. And I had no problem getting an erection, uh, with any porn I watched. And of course, I would, you know, I am very unaware at this point, so I’m like compartmentalizing like why things are happening and why they don’t happen.

Ronnie Landis: So in, in, your brain has developed a neuro association, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, To pornography that’s created an easy stimulation. It’s created easy access to erection through this virtual interface. So that part is not hard, but what you’re saying is in a real life scenario with a real life woman, there is An interference pattern.

You’re not able to actually get or hold an erection with a real life woman. 

Zack Blakeney: Correct. I, uh, actually could start achieving an erection just by grabbing my laptop at the thought that I was about to watch porn. So that’s as far as, you know, I was like completely remapped to essentially a device, but pornography in that way.

And, uh, so that started to compound and then I started to question myself, my masculinity, right? It’s like, all my friends are still using, Oh, I had sex with this girl and this girl, and I’m like, yeah, bro, so did I. But, you know, I didn’t, right? And that makes it worse inside of myself. Um, and then, and then it really started to escalate in my early No, I guess her late 20s, no mid 20s at this point.

So at the tail end of my first relationship, which was a college girlfriend, uh, who I was pretty good at hiding it. She found it one time and then she never talked about it. And like, I knew she found it and it was just like, we don’t talk about it. Um, but towards the tail end, it escalated into, uh, catfishing men and women on.

Uh, Craigslist. So, I was going to Craigslist and there was like men for men and women for men at the time and everything else. And I literally would write emails back and forth to people telling them to meet me at a hotel talking dirty to them. And at the time, my body was like, I was shaking doing this, like sitting there just shaking.

And like now I know it’s adrenaline, right? It’s like this dopamine escalation to the point where now I’m seeking adrenaline. And this is. It’s valid to how, you know, people that end up raping somebody will blame rape pornography for it. Because eventually the escalation comes from this little bubble that you’re in, wanting to act it out.

Ronnie Landis: Right. 

Zack Blakeney: Now, for whatever reason, because I can’t tell you why, I never met anybody anywhere. I had plenty of people show up at hotels and then not be there. Like, I had to deal with a lot of this guilt and shame about disrupting people’s lives this way. Mmm. Um, but it was something I did. So then I get with my ex wife.

I And, uh, I’ll tell you the first time I met my ex wife, it was like fireworks. I was like, oh, you, I don’t know how I know you, but I know you. It was like an instant attraction. So for that first year, we, um, had a pretty great relationship. Matter of fact, I thought she killed me, like, in my mind. Like, we actually were having sex a lot.

I was having trouble with ED. And then, you know, started to decline from there. And when it started to decline, I started going back into Craigslist. Uh, so my ex wife found my Craigslist, uh, correspondence twice. I lied about it twice and my computer got hacked, right? So this is just setting up the depth of my delusion, right, from this experience.

Um, so by the time, uh, I actually get to the point where, uh, I’m coming out about my addiction. Uh, I got lost in drugs at that point. So me and her got married and we’re doing like Molly and cocaine on the weekends. And then, like I said, I’ve made myself like a bipolar through drugs. And then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I’m like crying on the couch and then back in that way.

Uh, so by the time we got to the point where, um, I, uh, come out about my addiction, but I didn’t come out willfully. Like, I wish I could tell people that like, I was so courageous that I stepped up and I did it. Uh, it was actually a moment where we were leaving the gym and me and her had a business together.

And she grabs my hand and she says, we need to talk. Well, anybody that knows those four little words inside of a relationship knows that there’s going to be a serious conversation for me. Like, and I was having like a full on anxiety attack because I do. Uh, so we go to the truck and we get in and she says, let me see your phone.

And I reluctantly give it to her. And she goes to my in private browsing, and I say this story a lot, and people are like, you can’t, in private browsing doesn’t save searches. It did in Droid. So, she hits, uh, in private browsing, my searches, and it’s like all the things I would have wanted to see, right? And she says, what is this?

I said, I don’t know, it wasn’t me. She says, this is your phone. Who else could it be? I was like, I don’t know. Somebody hacked my phone. I’m using that excuse again. It wasn’t me. Now, at that moment was the first time I became very aware of another voice inside of me, because another voice woke up inside of me and said, tell her the truth.

Tell her the truth, right? Third time. If you don’t tell me the truth right now, I’m going to leave you. Third time denial. It wasn’t me. But then I said, as I’m breaking down crime, but I did watch that. So that was actually, I’m like 29. And this was the first time I became aware of a duality inside of myself.

So we leave the situation, I’m driving home, it’s the first time I’m actually suicidal. So like, I was close to a sporting goods store, I considered going and buying a gun, I was like, I’m gonna drive a truck off the road, hit a pole, like I was thinking, all these things. And that voice woke up again inside of me that said, Who’s listening?

And I was like what it’s like who’s listening who’s the one that’s listening to these voices And I said, I don’t know and that curiosity Started like sit me away from wanting to kill myself and actually drove me to want to know like what’s happening inside of myself at This point, right? So about four weeks later She was like She comes home from work, and she’s having a bad day, right?

And like, at this point, I would do anything to stay with her. I’d already started going to a therapist, and I was in my first, I guess, 25 days of like, no nothing whatsoever. No sex, no porn, no jacking off, like that’s what they talk about for a system reset. And I say, what’s wrong? And, uh, so I don’t want to talk.

So at the time I was anxious attachment with my communication style and she’s anxious avoidant, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, so I keep pushing and I keep pushing until she goes and she locks herself in the closet. So I’m sitting on the other side of the closet crying, saying, you know, don’t leave me, don’t leave me.

And then all of a sudden she swings open the door and she says, I want to die. And she runs for the kitchen, presumably to grab a knife. So I pop up really fast and I get in between the doorframe and I’m like, please, please, please don’t do this. Don’t do this. I’ll go. I’ll go. But as that’s happening, it’s like a movie flashes in front of my eyes where like all the choices I had made up to that point that had led up to the point where the person that I loved the most wanted to kill themselves because of some of the behavior that I had done, showed up.

So the, the, the energy of this situation dissipates and she doesn’t kill herself, but I sit on the couch and that voice pops up again. It says, who’s watching? If you are living your own life, who’s the one that’s watching this movie? So the reason why I say this story is that who’s listening and who’s watching drove my curiosity to first go into the science behind addiction.

I was like, let me learn about the science behind addiction, which by the way They didn’t even start coming out with studies about internet pornography until about 2009 2010. 

Ronnie Landis: Oh, right Yeah, right. There’s even there’s even a hint that this is an addiction. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Well, it’s in in the professional community It’s still not commonly accepted as being an addiction I’m, like what the fuck you guys are talking about.

This is like the most uh It’s the most readily available addiction and also to me It is the worst addiction you can experience. Oh by far. 

Ronnie Landis: I fully agree as an addiction specialist And I’ve written a book on addiction and I’ve done so much work in this, especially with dopamine resetting and rebooting.

I can tell you for sure in my professional and personal and antidotal and experiential experience as a man, that pornography by far is the most Challenging addiction that I’ve ever dealt with that I’ve ever seen in mass and that I’ve ever heard from from swooves What’s were like from from like just?

populations of men of all ages like it’s the digital drug of occasion of social media being one thing but then pornography takes it like a hundred X 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah, and it’s uh, and again, like you said there’s no like bias to what type of man like i’ve worked with executives that have 20 million dollar businesses have a porn problem.

Ronnie Landis: Well, 

Zack Blakeney: you know, i’ve also worked with guys that are just coming out of college Have a foreign problem like the socioeconomic status doesn’t matter the race doesn’t that’s really interesting 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, um because you that’s really interesting because you would think Like most people would think that this is not something for successful people.

Like this is not, this is something for people that can’t get laid or have trouble with their, their socially awkward, their. of anxiety or performance anxiety or, or, um, you have trouble talking to women confidence issues, right? This is not for people that are confident and successful and have built businesses or, or have an easy time with the opposite sex.

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Uh, most of the men that I’ve served that have been, I guess you could say high net worth individuals that have this, uh, Have gotten to a certain point of their success and then started using it as an escape pattern. Interesting. And, and didn’t really start with it as an addiction, but it became an addiction as a way to cope with their stress.

Right. Interesting. And again, ease of access. Right. I don’t deal with my stress opposed to, just 

Ronnie Landis: opposed to just having a real life woman, because in that case that can’t be that hard to access. 

Zack Blakeney: Well, but the other pattern is a lot of them are married. Their work that they’re disconnected in their relationship and then they get more disconnected.

So in that case, it is actually harder to access. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Zack Blakeney: Um, so yeah, so man, uh, science was the first part of it. Uh, I learned, you know, subconscious remapping and epigenetics and neurochemistry and the whole thing. And that was great. It was healing to an extent. But I was like, there’s something substantial that’s missing from this, this really unsubstantial information.

I mean, it’s all studies and it’s based off experiences, but like, but what’s missing and those voices, who’s watching and who’s listening drove me into consciousness. And, uh, I was raised Catholic and then I became agnostic once I went to college. Cause I started, I took oral religions and that’s all that took.

Right. And then I was really, I would call myself atheist when I was in the middle of my addiction. So to come back to God in that way, um, and, and even more so, man, to, um, I have the deepest relationship with God that I’ve, I’ve never thought I ever could have. Um, and that’s where consciousness really brought me into this space of like this idea that blossomed from the outside that, uh, then, uh, expanded inside of me, which is that I’m not separate from God.

And once that hit I was like, oh, okay and it’s like once that happened it opened up a whole new way of Seeing the creation And also holding away the vision and seeing myself And again to shortcut all the work that i’ve done through shadow work and everything else I finally had this realization by loving myself.

I love god And that is that I haven’t met a religion that teaches that it’s that i’m unworthy of god’s love. Yeah, right, right So how come you could ever love yourself by doing that? And a lot of the men that I’m working with, that’s one of the traumas we’re dealing with. They don’t, I don’t call it a trauma to their face, but it’s religious trauma.

It’s the separation of ourselves from our creator and then the need for a religion to tell you how to believe in God. And I always tell guys I work with, I was like, would you rather believe in Jesus? Or be like Jesus. 

Ronnie Landis: Or know Jesus. 

Zack Blakeney: Or know Jesus, it’s fine too. Like to have a 

Ronnie Landis: relationship, versus like a belief.

Zack Blakeney: Exactly, and that’s what I mean like, the belief is what blocks you, but if you have an experience of it, right? Right, 

Ronnie Landis: right, 

Zack Blakeney: right. Um, and even more so then they start to realize and this is my realization that’s brought me into the more the inner work I do is that jesus was just the carrier of the christ So ultimately we all are god union and it’s the awareness of that inside of ourselves now Where i’m at in my own discovery and my own process of evolution I can never if I ever try to identify it, I limit myself, but I do know that where i’m at now is that I’m not It brings me to tears.

Gratitude brings me to tears. Joy brings me to tears. The, the experiences that I have are so enriched and full, including, and I’ll bring this into it, sex. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. 

Zack Blakeney: Because now, I mean, as somebody that literally went from being afraid of having sex, then having to remap myself to sex, I was still using visual imagery.

So something I used to do while I was having sex with my ex wife is I would visually image porn. . So she was literally just a sex do bro. And she would tell me, she was like, like, like if I had an erection and I, and I, uh, and I came, I was so fucking, I was proud of myself. And then she’d come out and she’s like, I don’t know, I just don’t feel you.

Mm-Hmm. . And then that was even worse ’cause I thought I’d done something right. But I had, I had no concept of why that wasn’t good. Mm-Hmm. So from, I’m 37 now from 30. To 34 I was still doing that mental battle even when I was with my my current girlfriend And then bringing in consciousness and then realizing what sexual energy is and realizing what sex is which is a soul body experience It’s not a it’s not a conscious mind experience Just I have so much gratitude and appreciation for sex now Like it’s as sacred as it could ever be and when I get done, it’s the best feeling I could ever have You You’re not 

Ronnie Landis: drained.

No, that’s, that’s another interesting thing to just to point out that I’ve experienced over the years. And there’s this, this kind of, um, caricature of men that release and then they’re drained. And then there’s this whole kind of Taoist Vedic perspective of that. Don’t release your seed because it will drain your life force and your, your Jing.

energy. You don’t want to release your seed too much, which is true, but then there’s also nuances to that also, right? Because if you’re coming from a pornographically programmed, you know, bust your net, release your seed kind of like, um, objective, right? Then the energetic around it is just completely skewed and you are going to lose your life force, literally give away And masturbate your life force and it’s no wonder why you’re going to be exhausted and tired But in your unconscious, right?

But if you’re conscious and you’re building up your life force and you’re taking care of yourself in all the different ways and then you have love as the connective bridge with another human being and then you release my experience is that I feel just as energized or I don’t feel any lack of I don’t feel any depletion of energy after.

I feel just as clear, just as alert, just as ready to, to give and serve to my partner without like, okay, cool. I’m done checking out. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ll lay on the bed. Yeah. Um, but yeah, what you’re talking about, I mean, in, in, in theory, and what I believe, uh, through my experience of it is like when you start going into the energy centers of the body, right?

Um, that it’s a yellow activation energy center when you’re doing with porn, because it’s self serving, right? And there’s no exchange. So I’m not getting exchanged. There’s no, I’m just draining, right? But when I’m actually with the woman, we activate, as long as it’s actually making love, this is heart to heart energy exchange, right?

So even if I masturbate. Uh, and, but she orgasms, the energy is given to each other because of that heart to heart energy exchange, which is when healing occurs, right? That’s where it’s coming from. Right. Right. So like what we just did on the table is that was an energy exchange. You were a conduit for green energy, essentially heart centered energy to come through me to purge out the lower energies.

Um, so now using it in that way, um, and this is what we call sex magic, right? So, right, right. Right. Um, so that’s what I do, like talking about all this, I integrate consciousness, I also integrate somatic therapies, um, I integrate ritualistic magic, um, and then different types of rituals that are really focused with shadow work and forgiveness.

Ronnie Landis: Okay. 

Zack Blakeney: So something that we were talking about earlier that’s happened so far is I started to realize in my own shadow work that when forgiveness is targeted towards the cause, the real cause, That’s the only way it’ll wash away and actually purge from the body. But too many people are using forgiveness in a way of like, let me forgive myself for the effect.

So if I wanted to forgive myself for watching porn, that doesn’t actually stop the pattern. That doesn’t stop the inertia or the karma of what you want to say. But then when I went in and found out, oh, my sexual shame, Is what’s perpetuating the pattern and I targeted the sexual shame and then actually, you know, heart centered forgiveness and actually did like my own baptism to the process.

I, I don’t, I, the best way I can describe it, man, is that I sat into this bathtub. I set an intention to forgive myself. I went inside of it, called in a channel. I laughed for 10 minutes. at the ridiculousness of sexual check. And then I sobbed for, I don’t, maybe another 10 minutes because I had these real experiences.

And then when I got done, any tinge, cause I still had tinges of performance anxiety, right? That was left over and all that was gone. So now that I’m starting to give these practices to the guys that I’m working with, and it’s repeatable, they’re realizing that The depth and the power of forgiveness has to come from the space of cause and when it does I don’t have to work so much with the mental framework anymore In the same way that we just sat on here and I purged out that energy.

I don’t know where that came from right, but ultimately What happened for me is like afterwards I would have the thought But there was no emotional attachment to it. 

Ronnie Landis: Uh, right. So the 

Zack Blakeney: energy was going out of it So the thought was still there and then the thought eventually just left because it was no longer an interesting thought anymore 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah 

Zack Blakeney: So it’s just been interesting, like, using all these things, and I would have never thought to use any sort of white magic or sex magic or anything like that.

Unless I had my own belief system about what God is. Unless I went away from the sexual shame that’s created by religion. Yep. To realize that this is actually the thing that can create ascension, love, connection, the whole thing we’re looking for, right? 

Ronnie Landis: Beautifully said. And so I like this piece around dissolving the shame.

And then you could look at any addiction and derive the same conclusion, right? The same source point of what creates an addiction, certainly what perpetuates it to, to your point, right? It’s not that the addiction to the thing, the person, the place, the thing, the external object. Is the problem. That’s just the relationship that you developed with an external coping mechanism that you’re using to numb, sedate, tranquilize, and medicate the internal dislocation, the numbness, whatever, the distress, the stress, whatever it is that we’re trying to medicate.

And I think it is shame. I think if you go to the lowest rung of the emotional ladder, According to David Hawking’s and I know a lot of your work has to do with the doc or at least it’s influenced By David Hawkins scale of consciousness and maybe we can talk about that according to him the lowest the lowest grade of energy that the emotion that Emotionally that a human being can experience is shame and that makes a lot of sense There really is nowhere to go with shame, right?

You can you but you can use anger anger is better than shame But then there’s a lot of shame around being angry Right. So then it kind of gets weird and convoluted. Right. Um, so this thing around shame, I’m glad we brought it up because it definitely feels like if we can start to Address and dissolve our trauma or our, um, our just emotional attachment around shame.

Then the, the external mechanism or the behavior will start to unwind itself naturally. Yeah. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. And the conditioning around sexual shame starts very young. And I’m really only speaking from an American perspective, right? Texas right now. But I mean, just think about this and how it’s perpetuated over time.

Right. Uh, when I was young, and I, I remember this experience very, very vividly, I’m running around naked. I was like five or four or five, whatever. And my mom, uh, comes up to me and is like, you shouldn’t be naked, like, don’t be naked. And then my dad’s like, put your pee pee away. And now that I’m like older, I’m like, my father felt so uncomfortable that he one, couldn’t call it my anatomical, he couldn’t call it a penis, right?

Like we can it’s a pp and then two I was shamed for running around naked Now, although that is related with sex. It’s not directly related to sex, but it is right So now like when I the first time I remember getting naked in front of a girl Like I felt uncomfortable about it. Why did I do that most likely from that experience, right?

Being told that it’s not cool to be naked, right? So you have that aspect of it But then you also have like I said once we start saying that having sex before marriage is a sin In the christian religion, right and sin Sins aren’t real, they’re just, uh, misalignments. But when we say sin, there’s an emotional response to it, which is guilt and shame.

Ronnie Landis: Right. Which probably comes from thousands of years of imprinting. 

Zack Blakeney: Yes. Which I like to say, victims have been raising victims for generations and we’re just now waking up to that, to the possibility, which I know to be the truth, that we are the 100 percent creator of our life experiences, right? Right. So dissolving like all these different ways as intertwined.

And then you look at, um, you know, our society and the way that they, they treat sex. Right. Uh, when I look at, I was watching, um, I was not watching the other day, it was a Seth Rogen movie. And he’s talking about jacking off to porn. Right. And it’s just a normal thing. Right. It’s like, ah, just jacking off to porn and like whatever else.

And it’s like, it’s just everywhere. Yeah. So it becomes so normalized and so regularized, regularized. And. I got to say, man, like I’ve been looking at this from a lot of different angles. It is a service to self, or let’s just say the controlling body that has infiltrated our society to do this. Because if we’re looking at where we’re going as an org, as, as like a, as a humanity, as a collective, bro, I was watching a video yesterday and Joe Rubin had somebody on that was saying that brought up the sex robots.

And what they look like and how they’re integrating AI with it. And then we’re looking at the stats, like, uh, somebody that’s 30 years old right now, men, 40 percent of them haven’t had sex in the last year, 30 percent of women haven’t had sex in the last year. And the majority of them want to go with the ease of this and are starting to say things like a relationship is too difficult.

Yeah. There’s also a, I, that you can like create whatever you want on the screen to be, whatever you want it to be and we’ll do and say whatever you want it to do. And ultimately if what I understand sexual energy to be right now, that’s what we’re blocking, that’s what we’re blocking everybody from. It’s like, do not find this secret that your sexual energy is life force and life force energy.

And even more so don’t find the secret That if you’re able to use it in a way and direct it in a way You can come and challenge us where we are, 

Ronnie Landis: but just we’ll keep extracting out that essence out of you Without you ever knowing what you’re giving away. 

Zack Blakeney: Exactly And then we have the anxiety and the depression and that’s a whole and that’s a whole other 

Ronnie Landis: side of the conversation excessive masturbation coupled with anxiety depression neurochemical imbalance low testosterone uh 

Zack Blakeney: And like I said, even for me, I questioned my sexuality for a long time.

It took me to stop watching it, and then multiple years afterwards, for the imprinted images in my head to decline. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. 

Zack Blakeney: For me to look around and realize, and this was the biggest realization for me, I was like, I don’t actually find any man attractive in real life. It’s just in this little bubble of thing that I’ve created.

Yeah. And then once I was able to get away from the bubble, the further I did, I was like, Oh, I’m a heterosexual man. I love sex. I love women. That was one of the more healing realizations. And what am I realizing? I’m realizing what I already knew. I just tricked myself to believe it based off this external influence.

Right. So it’s a crazy experience to even realize that this is happening in that way. And even more so if we, if we end up, wait, we are waking up. But collectively, it’s going to take so many different voices out there that are sharing their experience because, you know, I saw a guy the other day and he’s actually one of my friends and, uh, he was talking about porn and I know him personally.

He’s never had porn addiction, but he’s talking about porn. He was repeating a lot of things that I say. It was a lot of our conversation and I couldn’t help but say, I was like, Really? That’s something that you shouldn’t be speaking about Sandra guru shouldn’t be speaking about pornography addiction Like you don’t understand you don’t you don’t really 

Ronnie Landis: understand what it is Yeah, 

Zack Blakeney: so also you speaking about it to porn addicts the Yeah, the ears closed.

Yeah, but when I sit here and I share this Every time I’ve shared my story I get people that come up to me and a portion of the story is the same And that’s that tenet that what’s most personal is most universal. Yeah, so the more we can share our experiences That’s what brings people in and then I have the opportunity to say hey, man, i’m you And if I can do it, you can do it, too And and I really believe a lot of people are here specifically here to alchemize that sexual shame Right and then kind of I kind of in my mind I see like a web It’s like you alchemize it and then you start creating this web of people that are coming to you Because they don’t have to suffer.

Absolutely, but ultimately they’re choosing to And uh, and that’s one of the biggest things the distinctions that I make with them that we talked about It’s like addiction isn’t a disease unless we want to use dis ease as like, right, right, right. It’s not a disease It’s a choice. Yeah, 

Ronnie Landis: and it’s a symptom.

Zack Blakeney: Yes, and it’s a symptom or effect of that choice, right? but uh, yeah, man, I You I’m just happy that I can be here and sit here with you and have this conversation with you, and I really appreciate the perspective that you’re bringing as well. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I’m really grateful for this. I, you know, for anyone that’s listening that has stumbled on this or on the algorithm or they’re really going through this process themselves, Um, what would you share with them as practical steps or strategies or even protocols that you went through that you’ve learned along the way to help men actually completely circumvent this and get on the other side?

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. So the first step is the hardest step, which is to, uh, be honest about it, accept that it is a problem and, uh, and find somebody to speak to about it. Right. Yeah. So 

Ronnie Landis: isolation is not going to work. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah, so there’s I call the there’s a journaling strategy that I do with them I call it the four walls of dishonesty.

Okay, and it’s hiding denying lying and trying So I tell them it’s like what you hide you hide out of shame I have never met anybody that hides something they’re proud of So start looking at all the things that you’re hiding because you’re going to find a cue to that and then denying Interesting thing about denial is denial, uh, makes the thing exist, right?

If there was nothing to deny, then it doesn’t exist, but denial makes it do that. And then we put it to the side and we don’t realize that it’s actually going and running our lives, right? So they go through the denial aspect of it. Lying, that’s, we were talking about this earlier, that’s fabrication, that’s being dishonest, that’s um, you know, coming into a space and not fully expressing your emotions and like actually telling somebody what’s wrong, right?

Uh, you know, when you come home from work and if you’re a man and the woman says, you know, how was your day? And you said it was fine. That’s a lie. Is that right? Right? You’re not expressing your emotions. And then trying. And a lot of people would get to me and they’re like, well, why is that a dishonest?

It was like, cause you’re not actually getting the result you want, right? Trying is that it’s going to make me feel temporarily better cause I said I tried, but then long term I suffer. So when they, if you’re listening, go through that experience. And then if you have a partner, I don’t actually recommend telling your partner first.

Find a buddy, find another man, somebody that you can talk to, And don’t talk about it in a way in which well you can talk about how you want to talk about but I advise you to Actually express the pain you’re experiencing from it rather than perpetuating the pattern of like, what are you watching? What are you watching?

No, that’s not it. You need to really talk about it Because that first expression of it out then it starts to cascade So once I expressed it out I became way open. I started telling too many people too many too many people too many details Um, so that’s the other thing is that like, make sure it’s somebody that is going to look at you and be there for you and just start there.

So that’s step one. Once you, I have these three levels, so it’s like acceptance, cool. We move into acceptance, uh, and then there’s the awareness aspect of it, right? So now we’re going to move with, you know, your conditioned self and who you are, and it’s the transformation of the conditioned self to who you are, uh, and then we can move into autonomy.

Okay. Which is the forgiveness aspect of it. So if it was acceptance, awareness, forgiveness, I have acceptance, awareness, autonomy, and the forgiveness does that. And if you do this in a, I mean, we do this in a four month stint. Some guys I do six, if I’m working with guys that are 40 or plus typically, and they’ve been looking at this for 30 years, a lot of times there’s a little bit longer aspect to this.

Um, but in a four month stint, if you just do the detailed work, plus the integration, plus some somatic breath work, plus coming to see you, right, doing something that’s going to start expressing the energy, you can do it way faster than the 12 steps. Totally. Right, right, agreed. Um, so going back to the centralized question, find somebody to talk to first.

And if it’s not going to be your partner, uh, find somebody you trust. And then just start there and see what happens. 

Ronnie Landis: Yup. Okay. Cool. Were there, were there any like supplemental or any, any kind of biochemical things that you did? Um, I imagine even like, like things as simple as working out and just paying attention to your diet and, and your health and your wellness are key aspects.

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll integrate that as well. So what I did is I started in Transcendental Meditation. Okay. Um, so I’m a TM instructor now, but that was the beginning of it. Um, so Transcendental Meditation is what brought me to, um, starting to listen more, right? Your ego is always chattering and doing that stuff.

So I was like, Oh, I’m listening to my internal world. Uh, I did journal a lot. Um, typically, so one of the most beautiful things that you can do is, uh, it’s one of the oldest, Uh, strategies is from Aristotle. It’s called virtue ethics, right? So I would just write down a ethic that I wanted to align to and anybody that’s been in addiction The first one I always recommend is honesty So so I would write down in the morning.

I would write it down seven times. I am an honest man And then I would say it out loud seven times And then I would take about five minutes to visualize myself acting in alignment with honesty So from what I learned about self conscious remapping conditioning it happens on repetition You And although doing inner child work and everything else can be really enlightening It doesn’t shift anything until you start shifting your behavior and your thoughts to the person right because that’s 

Ronnie Landis: the adult 

Zack Blakeney: exactly Um, so I started doing that and then what’s beautiful about that is now I have a lens to look at myself through So I took honesty and I went through all my thoughts and my behaviors And it was really painful in the beginning Because now I became aware.

Oh, i’m dishonest there Or even more so when i’m in the middle of lying and I know I shouldn’t be So one of the biggest things that happened to me was, I was in the middle of the gym, and this was after it happened, I’m talking to some guy, and I’m fabricating the story. I don’t know what the story is at this point.

I’m fabricating it, and then like, that voice popped up, it’s like, You were gonna be honest! And I’m like, stop. I’m like, hey man, uh, I gotta be honest with you, that I just fabricated that story a little bit, and this is something I’m working on. Now, every part of my body was like, don’t fucking do this. Yeah.

I’m quivering while I’m doing this, but the dude said to me, he said, you know what, man, that’s really respectable. And I actually am working on that too. And I, I know, right. So I gave this man permission to actually open up about that. And that’s where vulnerability became like addictive to me after this.

I was like, Oh shit. I just thought you got positive, very 

Ronnie Landis: positively rewarded. Exactly. Yeah. 

Zack Blakeney: Um, so that’s a beautiful thing to do too. So if you’re going to start anywhere, choose some characteristics, integrity, honesty, responsibility, maybe compassion, grace, whatever it is, and stick on it for a week or two.

And then just, you’ll start to find these little areas of awareness. And then this is where we, when I’m working with somebody that was like, okay, cool. Now we know where we’re going to actually remap right to how you’re going to show up. Yeah. Um, but you probably know this, like coaching in this way, the hardest part, I don’t think it’s for anybody that’s coaching, but like.

You can have the most profound sessions. Yeah. And I give action items to every single one of them. I have a accountability measure to them, but if you don’t really integrate that thing, Mm hmm. Right? I’m just giving you some information. Yeah. And it’s just another thing that you might, you might actually end up beating yourself up over because now you know.

Mm hmm. But you don’t know because you don’t have the experience. Mm hmm. Um, but those are some of the more valuable strategies that I’ve done before. And making sure that you realize that you switch, you, you, you transform in the moment. And it’s not just gonna get magically bestowed on you. 100 percent Yeah.

I think that’s something that religion does with, uh, uh, praying. So I could be here like, Alright, God, I’m gonna pray to God. God, please give me patience! And then it’s like the next day and like, I’m behind, uh, you know, going somewhere and they get caught at a red light. I start getting angry and everything else.

And God’s up there. He’s just like, bro, like you wanted to be patient. I gave you an opportunity to be patient. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s right. That’s a lot of people don’t realize about that kind of prayer is that you’re going to get an opportunity to develop the characteristic. It’s not like you’re going to be given a gift of patience.

You have to still become that person. 

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I always tell people, I’m like, you’re about to get faced with all the things, right? That are in your way. Yeah. If you’re being really shifted, it’s in the moment, and knowing when to, and when to start to shift. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. That’s really powerful. That’s implicable, applicable to anything, anything in life that you’re trying to shift.

Zack Blakeney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was conversations with God that really opened my eyes to that. They do an analogy in there. And he’s like, um. You got voices speaking, and it’s like uh, scarcity and abundance. And it’s like you’re walking down the street and you see an old lady. And she’s uh, homeless. She’s begging for money.

You reach in your left pocket, you got seven dollars. The first thought you have is, I’m gonna give her all my money. But then your conditioning comes in. And says, well wait a second, I need to buy lunch. So maybe I’ll give her two dollars. And then your conditioning comes in again, and it’s like, well, I need a drink.

So you look in your right pocket and you’ve got change, and now you’re about to nickel and dime this lady. And then by the time you put it in your right pocket, you’ve already walked ten feet past the lady and you don’t give her anything. And it’s like, in that moment, scarcity won. Conditioning won. But what if you would have just acted at your heart?

I mean, that’s a bonus. So like, when I heard that parable, I was like, ah. It was like this huge awakening of understanding that this is really what this is. Um, and you know what happens in, I think we talked about this earlier, but a lot of times what happens in the spiritual community is that they’re living up here, but they’re not integrating.

They’re not acting in what they know to be true, uh, and that integration is the difference between abundance and scarcity, is the difference between happiness and shame that you’re hiding, is the difference between everything you want versus everything you don’t want. Hmm. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. So would you say the, the.

The golden theme of this is integration and embodiment. Yeah. And even to the extent that like what we’re talking about with pornography or addiction and, and take any addiction that somebody may be dealing with the, the, the addiction is a symptom or a signpost of a lack of embodiment, a lack of integration in that person’s experience.

Zack Blakeney: Well, and even more so, like I said, when it comes to porn, Most guys don’t even know that problem. Yeah, like it’s it’s just I didn’t know I had a problem. It’s just so normalized in that way Um, but there’s one definition for addiction that I love which is like addiction is the never ending search outside of yourself And if you get attached to things that are addictive then it’s like, all right, here you go Um, but yes, this has always been an internal game.

It’s never not been an internal game It’s realizing that and this is where shadow work came in for me Okay Like once I really started to integrate that I am both the shadow and the light and that’s where my wholeness is I like to say your wholeness is experienced in duality. Mm hmm. And once I looked at that and said, oh Well, the shadow can’t exist without the light the light can’t exist without the shadow So that must mean that the shadow loves me because the shadow loves me then I couldn’t have this part of myself You And I saw this image in my third eye of the yin and yang.

And the yin and yang has the white and the black, but then like all of a sudden around the black, like this white line when it went behind the black and like my mind just got blown. And I was like, Oh my God. And then once that happened, plus actually doing the integrated work of shadow work, man. Um, it’s, it’s like, uh, I don’t know, like when you talk about wholeness, The feeling of it is just endlessly full and endlessly empty.

Like I feel two things simultaneously. And when I’m in that state, anything’s possible. So that was the last leg of the real healing. Uh, and having a framework for that, you know, things like, one of my frameworks for it is like, you know, all desire is neutral. So desire comes up, and then your conscious mind judges it as good or bad, and then you just put that to the side.

But, when I started to realize that, that’s what helped me heal from, um, porn. That’s what helped me heal from gay porn, actually. I was like, oh, this is a desire. I’ve judged it as bad. That’s why I judged it as bad, because I didn’t think it was who I was. It’s not bad. I love this. And then weirdly enough, when I love the fact that I watched Gabe Warne, I never watched it 

Ronnie Landis: again.

Interesting. Yeah. 

Zack Blakeney: Because shame wasn’t the cause of the behavior. It was just total acceptance. Exactly. So the alchemization of that container and putting myself into that space makes no sense to the conscious mind and you’d hate it. But that’s the whole point of shadow work is what you hate is what you actually love.

And then when you have yourself experience it, then it’s gone. 

Ronnie Landis: You dissolve the shame. It’s no longer there. 

Zack Blakeney: Exactly. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Interesting. Interesting. This has been amazing. It’s been an amazing conversation. Super enlightening. Really appreciate your vulnerability. 

Zack Blakeney: Thank you, brother. 

Ronnie Landis: This is the first time we’ve had this conversation on this podcast.

Out of like 250 interviews, I’ve never done an episode just on pornography, strangely enough. So like, right when we started talking, I knew it was like, we gotta do this. Yeah. And I know that this is going to serve so many people and um, I know, and I also know that there’s a lot more to your work than this.

This is like the, the foundational story that’s so relatable to so many people and probably a lot of people have gotten in the door through this, but I know your body of work is so much more and you do so much more with people. Um, so I’d love to know where people can find you in your work if they want to go deeper or reach out to you.

Zack Blakeney: Uh, so Instagram is the main one that I’m on at Zack Blakeney. Luckily, nobody has my name. Um, Z-A-C-K-B-L-A-K-E-N-E-Y. Uh, my company, when it comes to addiction healing is born free. Okay. Uh, so it is, I am born free slash or I am born free.net/get free today. Uh, and I, I named it that. Because we are born free and that’s one of the biggest things like when i’m bringing guys to it It is that process of remembering I’m, like bro, they come in and say they’re an addict.

I’m like, were you born an addict? No, okay, they’re not right Um, so that’s where they can find me there. Um, besides that I have a youtube channel. I have tiktok I haven’t been off social media lately and that’s one of the most beautiful things ever, but I still check it So, yeah, uh one thing you can do is just dm me, uh born free I’ll know that you’re coming from this podcast and anybody that’s listening.

I don’t hold anything back from you. You can ask me questions. I’ll give you reflections, whatever you need. 

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, thanks for coming on to the show. 

Zack Blakeney: It’s my honor brother.