Ronnie Landis
Greetings everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Life Mastery Podcast Show where we discuss all things health, wealth, wisdom, and spirituality. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis, as always. Very excited to share this episode with you with my colleague and my friend, Dr. John Lieurance.

Dr. John is an incredible pioneer in the holistic health world. He really specializes in a range of very specific modalities, some being endonasal cranial therapy, where you may have heard of people putting like a balloon in your nose and expanding it and that creating an opening in your nasal cavity and just decompressing the skull, decompressing the

brain, the sinus cavity and having profound therapeutic benefits on the holistic system of the body. That’s actually how I got into John’s work when I picked up a book from a mutual friend, Josh Trent, many years ago in his podcast office. And Dr. John also has been pioneering in the field of things like methylene blue and melatonin suppository treatments. And we dive deep into all of that.

We also dive into his backstory of going through a very serious health complication, which was the access point for him getting into holistic health. And that was over 30 years ago. And again, he’s an incredible pioneer in the chiropractic, naturopathic, therapeutic clinical work that he does, but he’s also an incredible

a bridge between the spiritual and the physical components of holistic healing and human potential. And this conversation was very unique because we got to cross-connect between those worlds, the spiritual, metaphysical and shamanic aspect of healing, and also the very grounded physical and scientific models of holistic health and really human potential at the end of the day. This is a conversation about how to

go beyond self-imposed limitations, boundaries, subconscious programs.

traumas that we’ve inherited over the course of our life and how to excel as human beings. And the first and foremost place that we do that is within our physical body, our nervous system, our neurology, our programming and our health, increasing vitality, increasing longevity, and ultimately becoming the best and most authentic version of ourself in a stable, secure,

and healthy body.

So I think you’re going to get so much out of this episode before we go into it. also want to mention that John is the founder, a co-founder of a company called Mito Zen. And these are incredible nutraceutical products. I’m not going to go into the whole litany of all the different products they offer. They offer many different products. They’re all amazing. They’re all highly concentrated, pharmaceutical quality, high potency products, and you can go

to website, it’s in the show notes, I think it’s mitozen.com, but go in the show notes. If you use the coupon code RonnieLandis, you’ll get 15 % off all the products.

Ronnie Landis
Highly recommend them. I’ve done many of them. In fact, in the conversation, we talk about some of my experience with them and get further kind of insight and guidance from John on how to use the melatonin, the methylene blue, and some of the other products that he offers. And they’re pretty amazing. So highly recommended. And I think that’s about it. So without further ado, enjoy this conversation between me and Dr. John Lieurance.

Dr. John Lieurance, welcome to the Life Mastery Show. It’s a pleasure to have you.

Dr. John Lieurance
Ronnie, thank you so much for having me on your show. I appreciate it.

Ronnie Landis
Absolutely. This has definitely been a long time coming for me. We got to connect a little bit before we hit record. And yeah, I was just sharing with you, like I really been looking forward to connecting with you both on a professional personal level and obviously getting into a podcast where I have a space to pick your brain and like really get into a lot of nuanced topics that you’ve developed an entire like career, an entire like

voice for really that I haven’t seen from anyone else, in the space. And we have a lot of mutual friends and colleagues and, a lot of, a lot of touch points, but my feeling from listening to you in many different podcasts is you’re, you’re a very unique individual. You, come at things from unique perspectives. Obviously you have the clinical and more physician or naturopathic and chiropractic background.

Ronnie Landis
which is really grounded in a scientific and clinical therapy perspective. But then I also get the sense that you’re a spiritual traveler on the journey. Like you have a shamanic element to you, which is how I see myself. I see myself very much like Eastern philosophy, martial artist, athlete, pedigree. I didn’t ever bother to go and get like a naturopathic.

or chiropractic degree, but I’ve been in that world and with the clinical work that I do with neuromuscular therapy and being a nutritionist, I appreciate the polymathic kind of gravitation to delving into many different bodies and disciplines and mastering them and finding like a new model for human potential or for human health or whatever you wanna call it, human potential.

And so that’s all what has come up for me when I really have dug into your work. And I know that we can go into a lot of different directions, but I think what I’d love to dive into first with you is just getting an understanding of what your journey has been like. Like how did you actually get into the work that you’re doing now? And I know that you did have some sort of like really serious health challenge that you had to solve that.

quandary and that that really got you deeper into the holistic health world. So if we could we could dive into that. I think that’d be a great start.

Ronnie, I don’t know if you meant to say it or not, but you said I want to get a better inner standing.

Ronnie Landis
That’s right. That’s how I speak.

I love that versus under, know, cause you know, yeah, we don’t need to be under anybody or putting anybody under us. I love that. Yeah. Well, just for the short time that we’ve had together talking, you know, I can tell you’re a kindred spirit and it sounds like some of the work that you’re doing is really, really cutting edge. I, we had talked about me next time I’m in Austin, which is going to be at the optimization summit.

under a new.

Ronnie Landis
I’ll be there too. Ben Greenfield just text me about it. I didn’t even know that was happening and then I’ll be there too. So that’d be great.

Yeah, I’m supposed to stop in in Idaho and record a podcast with Ben and his new studio right before coming out there. But you and I definitely need to get together and I want to, I want to work on you with my functional cranial endonasal. I also call it bliss release, right? Because, I think that, you know, the more bliss we have in our life, that’s really the ultimate in

when we feel good, we treat other people better, we’re just better people, we’re better humans, we love ourselves, because we start to see ourselves in a lens of something more positive. But releasing that inner bliss within ourselves is really a process of, I think, removing a lot of data that is corrupt, right? And we buy into all these stories and all of these different reflections that we get from other people and

circumstances and such where we get this identity of ourselves in a darker or a negative fashion and then we just beat each other. We beat ourselves up with negative self-talk and then we kind of take that on as being our identity and kind of breaking that pattern and how some of those things get stored. the conversation that we had before we hit record, we were talking about how these things get stored in the tissues.

And you know, I love that they say that the tissue, the issues are in the tissues. That’s right. And I know that that can happen throughout the body and through the different muscular and factual systems. And my work is really kind of revolved around the, the Dura, which is the dent, the densest, most close to the central nervous system becomes the whites of the eyes and

Dr. John Lieurance
So I started doing this endonasal balloon treatment shortly after graduating close to 30 years ago. And then I wound up writing a book on it. And I think you had mentioned that you had picked that up and you connected with some of the conversations regarding the locus serrules or the blue spot, which I I wanted to dive into a little bit. think for anybody listening to this, know, hang on, put your seatbelt on because this is some really

You know, and you might have to listen to it twice because I know I needed to like hear it several times before it really started to resonate with me. this, this whole concept can just give you a completely different way of looking at how to care for yourself, you know, and especially your brain. But, okay, so a little off track, but like you’re, you had asked me about how, how I kind of got to the, the

where I’m at right now with regards to some of my pain to purpose experiences. My family, I come from a military family and my dad, my family was stationed at Camp Lejeune and I believe it’s between 1972 and 1985. Anybody that lived there has like, there’s like a huge Clash Action suit. You can see a lot of

commercials, it’s getting less now, but that was the worst water contamination in US history. And what they were doing is they were washing and dumping chemicals, like the tanks and so forth. And then they had all these different other things they were doing. because the water table was under sand, because the way that the land is, is like there’s

very poor sand. then the water table is right there. And they were pulling the water right out of that water table that contained some of the most dangerous cancer causing toxic chemicals known to man. And this is literally, I was in utero. My mother was bathing and drinking this water. And then I was my first two years of life and they had a cemetery that was just for babies because there was so many stillborn born babies because of

Dr. John Lieurance
So I just, you I think about like, how lucky am I that I survived that, you know, because so many kids in the same circumstance probably didn’t. And so that kind of led to, I think, some challenges because I found myself in special education classes growing up in Hawaii. And I think some of the ADD and ADHD, and I had a lot of food sensitivities.

and my parents really didn’t know how to deal with it. I mean, my nose was always running. I always had like massive brain fog. I just really didn’t, I didn’t feel smart, you know, and they kept me and this really went on for, I’d say even, into college, you know, as I started to learn techniques about, you know, how to properly supplement and getting, you know, better chiropractic with my spine and my neck and then

you know, some of the dietary and exercise. So as I started to kind of get indoctrinated into natural medicine, I did notice that a lot of those things really cleared up for me quite a bit. And I wish that my parents had some of those skill sets, you know, to help me back in the day. then, you know, I wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t have had that stressor, right? So it’s the stressor of the, you know, that challenge.

made it so that I felt like I wasn’t smart, right? And so then I was going to prove to the world and I worked all that much harder to prove to the world that I was worthy, right? And lovable. Those are the two core ones I feel like we all have at the very deepest level is that we’re not enough, you know, or we’re not lovable. And if you start to believe those things, then you start to

run your filter through within your life and then you see that the world in a negative and painful and you suffer.

Ronnie Landis
Yep, I can completely relate that actually the moment you said that the term like performative love came up for me. I completely relate to that and I can only you know hindsight is 2020. So when I look back on my life, I can see the patterns. But when I’m going forward, I only see me as an athlete me as a martial artist me as a high highly ambitious, highly goal driven person.

who is very committed to my personal growth. So there was an intrinsic desire to grow, which was pure, but then there was also this alternative motivation is like, I wanna prove to the world that I’m enough. To the world that not only I’m enough, but I’m actually better than everybody else that didn’t think I was enough.

Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Landis
And so it’s interesting, like, because those things can be positive drivers. can help us achieve great things and help us become better people in a lot of ways, or better at what it is that we want to do. But then at some point, there is a threshold, right, where that performing for love, that performing for approval, no matter what you get, no matter how good you become, no matter what you become, there’s still this underlining feeling that I’m not enough.

Mm hmm. Yeah. And at some point, you know, you just have to let go of all of that stuff and get to the almost a transcendence, you know, dropping all of that bullshit because it all doesn’t matter. You know, and if we try to fix, it’s like, you know, trying to fix the problem with what caused the problem to begin with, which is the mind. Right. And buying into this idea that our thoughts and our feelings are are us. And there’s just nothing to do but just

to just be, you know, and just be in the moment the best you can. And I talk about what I call the three pillars and that’s identity, divinity, and vitality. we create like a whole program where we work with patients with all of these three different pillars. so what we’ve been talking to is really the identity component.

The divinity is a direct experience of God. And for me, was plant medicine. It was a very powerful plant medicine protocol that I did probably about six years ago now.

Dr. Sam Lee.

Dr. John Lieurance
You know, Samuel literally just texted me and that’s going to be in town this weekend. And I’ve not, I’ve not, he’s a, he’s a facilitator for those listening. one of the, so the, the place that I had started, I went and had been dropped into a experience.

I don’t know. just went. Yeah.

Dr. John Lieurance
a journey there. And then after I had left, he took over the center and was the primary kind of figure there running the show. And I missed him. kind of, you know, I left and he kind of came in. I had a bit of a falling out with the people out there. I just didn’t really. And he didn’t last very long either. Like he and I kind of talked a lot about

Sometimes, you know, I like the word spiritual hustler, you know? I felt like there was a lot of spiritual hustling happening through that group.

Yeah, so

Ronnie Landis
Yeah. Okay, so back to you. So your plant medicine experience, what did that do for you?

It broke down this identity component. think that, you know, there was a lot of, it was a combination of just connecting with, for me, I had an experience of a bunch of angels that have always been with me and they communicated to me. I know this may sound really crazy to some

to do this.

I wouldn’t think to you, to some people listening to this, you I wouldn’t believe it if you told me before this, but like I literally had all of these entities or these beings that were just like total bliss, beautiful angels, and they were sending me all these messages and I was just voicing all of them and I had recorded it because I had a tape recorder that was left on my chest.

And, you know, I had a mind fold on and I had very specific music playing and it was a combination of MDA. And, and at that time it was just the addition of ketamine and those two medicines together. But now I know the protocol has advanced a little bit. And sometimes people use a little bit of psilocybin with that, but that can be extremely transformational. So.

Dr. John Lieurance
It was a bit of a combination of two of the pillars. One of the pillars was breaking down that identity and some of the connection I had with those angels helped me to kind of see things a little bit differently and see myself a little bit differently. And then there was just this direct experience of something that was so much greater that I was a part of and I belonged and this oneness and this just this knowing that, you know,

I’ve always been and I always will, know, this, eternity, eternal, you know, existence.

Yeah, so that helped to, let’s say, collapse the default mode network gateway for a certain period. then I guess what I’m curious about when you say that is I’m curious about the integration process after that. Because that’s the thing, right? So many of us have had these transcendent

Illuminescent experiences, right? And but then there’s also that like everything comes back or maybe it reconfigures in a certain way to try to integrate that. But there’s process, right? There’s a process to actually becoming more of that.

Yeah. Integration, you know, it’s taking that short-term memory because when you have an experience like that, you know, it’s stored in your short-term memory, which is specifically in the brainstem called the locus surrealis and that in Latin means blue spot, which is really wild. So I wrote a book on methylene blue. And, I first started to really become interested in this part of the brain, the locus surrealis or the blue spot when I wrote.

Dr. John Lieurance
my book on endonasal therapy. And, you know, for those listening, it’s, it’s a release where a small balloon is placed into the nasal passage and that it releases the fascia system around the brain and the eyes and the face opens up breathing quite a bit. And there’s, there’s an effect that I’d see with patients where I’d see some transformational things happen where people would have memories come up and they would

if I were able to coach them through these experiences in ways that I had learned during my time studying, facilitating plant medicine, was like, felt like I was understanding that there was something more than just a balloon inflating and opening up the nasal passages, but there was something else happening. And so when I started to study,

plant medicine and the default mode network and, you know, in this integration component and the blue spot, I actually wrote a short section in that book that I had released probably in 2021, 2022. And so then when I started into writing a book on methylene blue called Magic Bullet, it’s actually out on Amazon, both these books are, I just couldn’t believe here’s

here’s the blue spot again and within the subject and there was a study that they actually did with methylene blue and they really got into this whole idea of memory consolidation which I really started to learn at a much deeper level that you know when we have integration or memory consolidation this is really in essence short-term memory being integrated with our long-term memory so that kind of makes sense of

what happens to us in the short term as it relates to like our life and this constructive identity that we have in our mind. And that’s all kind of very tightly integrated within the default mode network. So the study that I found is where they give patients even just one dose, they were studying phobia. And so like,

Ronnie Landis
you

Dr. John Lieurance
could be a spider or it could be heights or something. So there was something that they were exposing people to and they do exposure therapy, right? So you would be exposed to what you’re afraid of. And the idea is that if you’re exposed to it enough, eventually, you know, your fear response diminishes more and more. And then eventually, you know, if therapy works the way it’s supposed to work, you’re then no longer hold that fear, right?

And I think it’s kind of similar when I’m doing balloons with patients, or it sounds like you’re doing the work you’re doing with the fascial system and the muscular system is that you’re, bringing up these memories, these thought forms, and you’re allowing somebody to be in a place of acceptance and, and love. Right. And so if we can, cause you can’t the, the, these thoughts can’t exist when you hold it with love.

you know, the love solves it, right? So.

Yeah, that’s right.

So the phobia, so back to methylene blue. they, they found that if they gave one dose of methylene blue after the phobia therapy, that the treatment worked much, much better. And they’re, you know, that their conclusion was that the methylene blue supported the locus surrealis in order to move those memories from the blue spot up to the higher brain memory centers. And this

Dr. John Lieurance
Mostly happens at night when you’re sleeping

Mm-hmm.

particularly, you have to have REM sleep in order for this to happen. And so this gets really interesting because like, you know, I give you one example with women. They it’s, it’s, it’s very much in the research that when there’s lower estrogen cycles in their monthly, their, their REM is not as good. Right. And so you start to kind of be able to explain, wow, if you can really take better care of your locus, serrules through

estrogen cycles in particular to improve the REM sleep, then there are certain parts of like PMS in these monthly cycles that women find themselves on where they may be, you know, there’s part where they are not integrating things so well and they get frustrated, you know.

more of their that’s what the kind of classic portrayal of a woman who’s like really moody or whatever like on her cycle but really what that’s like that’s a physiological phenomenon right the emotionality is a symptom it’s not it’s not an indicator that like women are crazy or whatever it’s it’s it’s symptomatic of a physiological imbalance

Dr. John Lieurance
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It, you know, when, when we’re stressed and we have inflammation, you know, our brain doesn’t function at the level that it needs to function. And so, and that’s why we, I talk extensively about vitality and how vitality has a direct link to our spiritual practices, you know, and I know in Buddhism, you look at like the training that the Buddhists go through and how healthy, know, this, this, you know,

this body that we’re in is this temple, you the body is the temple, right? And the cleaner the body and the brain is, the less noise that we’re distracted from. Like, I mean, anybody that’s had low back pain, you know, try to sit down and meditate and then do it when your back’s not hurting, right? Think about that noise, right? And then there’s a lot of types of noises that start to interfere with this connection to the divine.

We look to try and help people with that, you know, and I believe that the, the, one of some of the low lying fruit is taking care of your doorways. You know, I talk about what I call the Ganesh protocol, right? Cause Ganesh is elephant. You know who Ganesh is, right?

Yeah, the clear of obstacles.

Right, yeah, so he’s the, the Hindus believe Ganesh sits at the doorway of heaven and they chant, gunna pot to Hey, Namaha, right? Like over and over it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a chant and, you can find a lot of these chants, the Ganesh chant on, Spotify and they can be kind of fun, to listen to some of these and to try to chant along with it with

Dr. John Lieurance
with bringing up a feeling of like bliss, right? And so they would chant and they would just try to get themselves in the highest state of bliss. And Ganesh is like a bouncer at the gates of heaven. And if you have enough bliss, then you’re worthy to be invited into the divine and into heaven. And so that’s why they say he’s the remover of obstacles, because what’s the obstacle to get into?

right into heaven is whatever obstacle there is for you to be in bliss. Like, you know, and then we get to the three pillars. And, so I call it the Ganesh because it’s taking care of your doorways. And this idea that inflammation is what has the biggest detriment to our mitochondria, you know, now we can kind of get a little sciencey here for people. I’m sure, um, people really enjoy.

kind of the science behind like how things work because I do, I like to know what’s under the hood, you know? And so what’s at the deepest level under the hood at a cellular level is how well you’re making energy, whether it’s efficient or it’s not efficient. And so when we can have the mitochondria working efficiently, then we have vitality, we have life force. And if we have vitality and life force,

since the body is a self-healing, self-regulating device, then everything works really beautiful, right? But then when we have inflammation that causes what’s called a cell danger response, are you familiar with the Warburg effect and the cell danger?

Yeah, it’s been many years, but I am familiar.

Dr. John Lieurance
Yeah. So, well, for people that aren’t, it’s, you know, it’s this switch in the way we make energy from what’s called the electron transport chain. So within the mitochondria, there’s the electron transport chain and outside of the mitochondria, we can still make energy with, so a pyruvate comes into the cell, right? Into some like chemistry and the pyruvate can go into the mitochondria or it can stay outside of the mitochondria.

And outside of the mitochondria, when it makes energy is called fermentation. Right. You only make a couple of, ATPs. So ultimately you think about the gasoline that’s going to fuel the cell is the amount of ATP that’s made. And when you make ATP through Krebs cycle, you make 30, you know, 30, 32 to 38, depending on some factors where you only make about 10 % of that, outside of the mitochondria.

And when we have enough stress, there’s a certain amount of stress that we can adapt to. And our ability to adapt is really related to the amount of energy that we can have to genes that allow us to adapt to environmental stressors and such. But if we can’t, then we exceed that, that hormetic window or that stress window and we shut down our energy.

That’s where we default and that’s where everything just falls apart. This is where cancer is created. This is where like a lot of people heard about the cytokine storm, you know, with, with COVID where our immune cells lost all of their ability to make energy. And that’s where we lose the battle with an infection. And that cell danger response is really what happens with infections when they get to a certain level and we just can’t, you know, fight it off anymore. And we will die.

Most of us, if we’re lucky enough, we’ll get old and we’ll have most older people die of pneumonia. And you look at like melatonin, and melatonin sits within every mitochondria and quenches the stress response. Stress response is oxidation. And what’s really interesting is that as we get older, if you look at the

Ronnie Landis
interesting.

Dr. John Lieurance
amount of melatonin made as we age, it just declines just dramatically. So by the time after 40, it really starts to decline, but really into your 60s and 70s and 80s, it’s just like practically not existent. so the amount of melatonin that we produce when we have light hitting our iris, you know, and our retina, we go out into the sun and then the light

causes the accumulation of melatonin in the pineal. And then every day that cycle starts. And so we’ll always have that amount of melatonin, but it depends on how much daylight you get. So you’ve got to go out in the sun and you’ve got to take off those sunglasses. But there’s this whole story of melatonin within the cells. And so this gets choked off dramatically as we get older.

and it doesn’t allow us to endure those stressors or those inflammations. And so then that cell danger response is just so easy to activate within at the cellular level and then we’re suffering trying to recover from disease because we don’t have the vitality. So supplementing with what I…

Super physiological doses of melatonin is what I’m a big fan of. In fact, I wrote a whole book on it.

You’re actually going right into a topic I wanted to get into, which is melatonin.

Dr. John Lieurance
Yeah. Right. You know, I have people taking hundreds of milligrams of melatonin and the biggest, you know, the biggest argument I get, you know, I was actually, just, just befriended, you know, what, sometimes you have like these people in your life that have been like, they’re like a God see, or like you’ve been like, my God, like this is like, so layered Hamilton for me.

And he was the first person that really introduced me to breathwork. And it was, I think he was doing an interview with Wim Hof and this was like early, early on. And I started getting into it and, you know, I grew up in Hawaii. So I had this connection with him. And so we recently got introduced and we’ve been communicating quite robustly here recently. and, and I,

you know, cause he’s, you know, he’s, getting a little older and he’s kind of like, he’s really, really natural. Like he’s one of the nicest, amazing guys I’ve ever met. Right. And, and so, he had kind of a similar thought of melatonin that most, most people will have where they look at, you know, I don’t want to have to rely. I don’t want my body to have to rely on something. You know, I want.

That’s the story that you’re told about melatonin. It’s going to create a dependency.

Right. Yeah. But it doesn’t happen because we don’t have a negative feedback loop. Like most hormones have that like testosterone and estrogen and cortisol and by, by roid, like all of these hormones. In fact, you know, I don’t know of any other hormones that don’t have this negative feedback loop. insulin, mean, they all have this negative feedback loop where you start

Dr. John Lieurance
Increasing it in your system, your body like starts to look around. It’s like, well, gosh, we have plenty of that hormone. I don’t need to make it. And so it shuts down its own, its own production, like, growth hormone. And I’m a big fan of peptides. And now you can do growth hormone releasing peptides, stimulate your, your, pituitary to produce growth hormone. But then when you stop taking the peptide,

your pituitary still continues to produce it. So it kind of almost exercises. So there are hacks and different ways to get around some of the various hormones like with testosterone, things like Tribulus and Maca root. there’s a peptide that, gosh, there’s a peptide that causes the release of luteinizing hormone that

is harder to get these days. But so there’s ways to like manage some of these systems. But the reality is melatonin is independent of that. So you’re going to get just as much melatonin in your pineal as you would. And it’s completely dependent on the amount of light that you get over a 24. You have to start over every 24 hours, right? And I’ve taken I’ve taken up to a gram of melatonin and

for an extended period of time. And I probably pretty, pretty regularly take 400 a night myself. I do get a lot of our patients on between two and 400 milligrams. And you can stop taking it and I could be on it for a year and stop taking it. And I don’t fall out of, it’s not like I’m laying in not able to sleep. I can still sleep. You don’t kind of fall off a cliff, so to speak.

So I know that from experience that, you know, this is not only in the scientific literature, but I’ve experienced it both with myself and, you know, all of the hundreds of patients that I’ve worked with. And this idea of wanting to live longer and to mitigate disease all relies on our ability to resist stress. We have stressors that we never even

Ronnie Landis
Yes.

Dr. John Lieurance
adapt it. We don’t have the time to adapt to as far as EMFs and the foods that we eat have a lot of chemicals in them, especially here in the United States. Hopefully some of these things are going to change now that RFK is kind of looking like he’s going to take over some aspects in the government to make some changes with this.

about the epigenetic ramifications because it’s not like, even if you took all these things out, which that’s a whole, that’s a whole bureaucratic process, like realistically and genetically modified foods and EMFs and all these artificial stressors to your point, they’re different than organic stressors. These are artificial stressors that are creating a mutation within our genetics and our epigenetic expression. So

That’s a whole thing that we have to deal with, like what that’s even going to look like. So we need a whole arsenal of things to not only mitigate that genetic damage, but then to actually over, I guess, surmount the unknown implications of all these things.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we haven’t adapted to all of these stressors. so there, you know, therein has a need for us to have some different strategies in order to mitigate the stresses and allow us to have an opportunity to, to adapt to the stressors. And that’s why I look at melatonin is the ultimate resilience molecule.

ability to be resilient under stress is, is going to really depend on that hormetic window. Right. And so if you look at any stressor or any accumulation of multiple stressors, there’s going to be a level where it’s like so sub threshold that our body is like, it’s not enough to even be on the radar. Right. And then all of a sudden it gets where it’s strong enough where it starts to get on the radar. And then the body sees that and actually gets stronger.

Dr. John Lieurance
from it, like gravity is a great example. Astronauts go into space, they have to go in and have things that push and make pressure on their bones. Otherwise they get severe osteoporosis by the time they come back to earth. So gravity as a stressor in the certain amount makes us stronger. But if you go on, there’s some planets where gravity is like several times what it is here on earth. And like your bones would just…

crumble under that type of force. So, but there’s like, you know, mama’s porridge, right. It’s just like, you’ve got that mama’s porridge, that, that, Goldilocks zone. call it the Goldilocks zone around the, the sun, right. That we’re, the earth is in, right. It’s just right. Not too hot, right. Not too far away. Right. So it’s just right.

And so that’s the same thing that happens with hormesis with all the different stressors and what melatonin does and to some degree, methylene blue. And I’d love to get into methylene blue a little bit more. It, it, it kind of comes into the mitochondria. It’ll a bit of a different way, which makes it really, really synergistic with, melatonin. Um, but the melatonin, um, keeps the energy made in the mitochondria and it

prevents it from switching over into this fermentation. And that really, I think, is a big deal in today’s world.

Yeah, okay. There’s so many things I want to, want to. I’ll make this really succinct because I have a personal question on melatonin. I used, I experimented with a number of your melatonin sleep, like a little caps, little.

Ronnie Landis
And I experimented with like doing half of one and then doing a full one, doing this methylene, doing it without the methylene blue. I did this, started using suppositories because I really wanted to experience like what you’re talking about. I heard other people saying that they had incredible results from a sleep recovery perspective. And sleep had been a bit of a challenge for me on and off for different reasons. I want to like really get that experience. What I noticed

particularly from using the using both the caps or whatever you call the the loss engines, I think. And then the suppository is that I couldn’t figure out what the right dosage.

By the way, they’re bars. They’re not sublingual. They’re just…

That’s right. They’re little bars. Thank you. And so my question was, there, because I noticed there would be times where I got really deep sleep, but I wake up and I’d feel kind of groggy. felt like I was, my brain was detoxing. so I was thinking, I was like, is this like, is this actually causing my brain to dump a bunch of, a bunch of toxins? And then I’d also noticed that I’d feel really stimulated sometimes when I do it. I was really curious what your thoughts were on that.

Yeah. So the, um, the, the, the research tells us that melatonin can purge heavy metals out of the brain. I, I, I know melatonin is going to detox anytime you improve mitochondrial energy. Um, think about it. like to think about it. This is the way I explained it in my book too, is if you, um,

Dr. John Lieurance
If, if, if you had a lot of energy, you’re keeping your bedroom clean. You’re keeping your house clean. Cause you’ve got the extra energy to do that. Right. You don’t have extra energy after a day at work, you get home, you’re like, screw it, man. I don’t want to deal with any of this. The house gets really dirty, right? The kitchen’s dirty that you’re not your dishes. It’s just, it’s just a total mess. the same thing happens in the body. And so when we don’t have the extra reserves to do the house cleaning.

then we start to accumulate a lot of toxins. And there’s two primary areas that toxins will find themselves. One is in the cell membranes. It’s more the oil fat soluble toxins that we really need to worry about. know, chemicals and heavy metals are kind of in that area, but there’s also a lot of toxins from microbes, which are

you know, their, their endotoxins or lipopolysaccharides and their fat soluble as well. And so those find themselves in the cell membranes and I, know, they, they say the cell membrane is where life and you know, life begins and it ends at the cell membrane. so, so membranes primarily made of phosphatidylcholine. So we get people taking a lot of, I like a combination of butyrate and phosphatidylcholine to kind of flush the cell membranes.

But the other place that toxins start to accumulate, which relates to the second doorway is the colon and the digestive tract, but it’s, it’s in the bile, right? And so your bile is what breaks down fat. so our body though recycles bile. So in the colon, we basically absorb and reabsorb whatever bile and then a bile, whatever in the bile, which, there’ll be toxins just can

absorb over and over and over again. So you’ve got to be able to take a that mops up the chart, those charged toxins. And so that’s why we actually use a prescription binder called colostiramine. But we also are fans of various binders. And the best times to take these binders are before bed, because within the first hour, hour and a half of sleep, your body dumps

Dr. John Lieurance
bile into the digestive tract. And then in the morning, if, especially if you drink some lemon water, I recommend that as kind of a morning routine is like, drink a lemon, but then take a binder, right? So you’re going to stimulate your liver to dump the bile. And that’s why, that’s why drinking the lemon or an acid, that’s how it detoxes us is it gets the liver to kind of

push out its content in that stuff file.

Okay, that makes sense. So, okay, so melatonin and higher dosages, that makes sense that it would start to help with that dumping process. And so that is, I was thinking like, it felt like I was having a melatonin hangover. That was the only thing that I could think about. So then I pulled back on it, obviously, because I didn’t want to keep repeating the cycle. just figured maybe for me, it just wasn’t working or there was something I didn’t know.

Yeah. So it, you know, melatonin is, there is, there is a subset of people that have more of a challenge, at least starting with melatonin. know you had mentioned that you had extra energy. That’s called a par, paradoxical, effect because most people you feel groggy and you feel tired.

That’s what I was hoping for.

Dr. John Lieurance
Yeah, so you had a bit of a paradoxical effect and that could be related to, you know, possibly maybe something else that because our melatonin has other ingredients in it. You know, we have the Sandman’s Soul, which is really just straight melatonin, might be worth trying that. Right now we only have that in a suppository, although we’re looking at releasing that as a

in a bar as well.

I really like the suppositories. And you have another one, which is really a methylation based product. can’t remember what it’s called, but for brain detoxing, think that I found that to be very helpful. Methylmax, that’s right.

Yeah, methyl max. So we’re talking about mitosin. Just all disclosure, am the scientific advisor for a company called mitosin. And we make a number of different kind of unique products like we’ve been talking about here. most of

Some of these products are available at our dot com site, but we have our full line of products only available to club members. So it’s really, it’s a club based membership. It’s only $10 lifetime, but we also have a lot of educational material in, a library where we show people how we’re using the products with breath work. And I’m a big fan of breath work. and love to.

Dr. John Lieurance
get people excited about that as part of their morning routine. I don’t know, do you use a lot of breath work as well?

Yeah, absolutely. It’s a prerequisite for starting my day and just going through my day.

You know, I think the breath, in the original Bible, I have a friend that was involved with transcribing that, and he says it’s not really like the regular Bible that most of us get, but like in the original in Aramaic, he says that Yeshua, who was Jesus’ real name,

said the veil of the temple is rent and twain. And he believes that what he meant by that was that it’s the breath, right? And so we hold our unconscious so that the temple is that unconscious mind, right? If we can have access to the unconscious, which is ruling how we see the world, then this is the temple, right?

If our breath is what locks these things, these memories into our tissues when we hold our breath. So if we can bring these things up kind of kind of circling back to our conversation earlier is if we can hold these maybe painful thought forms, keep our breath moving. Right. And if we can have, replace it with feelings of bliss or, or love or connection.

Dr. John Lieurance
these are, I think, some of the most powerful healing strategies. Even if it’s something that doesn’t seem related, there’s always a connection to emotions with virtually all diseases, and it’s always gonna support you to take a mind, body, spirit approach to any condition that you might be dealing with.

100%. I mean, when I take my patients through the neuromuscular release process, like we’re going in different sequences. So every part of the body has a particular set of techniques and release sequences. And some of them can feel quite intense because you’re dredging up all that stored memory that’s stored in the, the fascial neuromuscular neural junctions. And so that, that intensity is actually just what’s already there.

It’s not because I’m doing anything except the procedure. It’s already there and it’s being brought up out of, being brought up to the surface. So I’m always having people go through a breathing sequence. Like the more it comes up.

Mm-hmm.

and then release and that helps the body, not only does it help them process it and keep their mind stable, but it helps the somatic body to process and catharsis the unprocessed emotion that’s actually the problem. So the somatic body can go through that processing and then it can release that layer of energy and dissipate it.

Dr. John Lieurance
Well, there’s, um, there’s an aspect of breath, um, particularly going through the nasal passage that paces, um, oscillations within the central nervous system. And so what would be my oscillations are that like every part, all the different parts of your anatomy within your brain, um, have like a pulsing or a frequency that they’re, they’re kind of their native. Oscillation. And this is one of the ways that these

areas of the brain communicate with each other. And there’s oscillations that support feelings of bliss and connection and love. And these oscillations, they’re called them limbic oscillations. And so the word limbic is like emotionality, right? And so like they’d say, like, if you were working on a patient and they got really emotional, like you could write in your notes, the patient went limbic during

this procedure, right? This is this idea with the very emotionality. So these limbic oscillations are actually driven through your respiratory oscillations. And the only way that the body perceives these is through sensory up in the high in the nasal passage. so when the passage is blocked, we’re not pacing our central nervous system. And so a lot of things just don’t work very well.

huh. Okay. That’s huge light bulb moment. That makes complete sense. And then that also makes sense why the endonasal balloon is such a huge neurological nervous system reset process. That whole blockage, that whatever compression or whatever’s happening in that spacial containment.

Yeah.

Ronnie Landis
And I don’t know the ins and outs of that. just know that like by working on people and working on their jaws in particular and releasing, it’s like a clamp. There’s like a clamp on their head. And so as we’re getting this thing, then we go into the jaws and we release all that. It’s like, there’s this, this, this, this, just this expansion that happens. So that helped me understand that the nasal passages and the whole facial structure is creating like,

clamp on people’s, their, well, on their consciousness essentially, but you’re bringing in this other interesting awareness that somehow our, the sinus cavity is like the bridge.

Yeah. And so if you think about the ability to breathe, right? So the opposite of that is suffocating. And so we have the, there’s a very, very powerful connection between the nerve surrounding the upper chambers and the nasal passage to the locus serrules, right? And we talked about that earlier, the blue spot.

So the blue spot does a lot more than just store short-term memory and integrate our memory consolidation and so forth. But it’s also very intimately involved in our circadian rhythm. And so it’s going to release norepinephrine in the morning, getting us up out of bed. A lot of us think about the adrenal glands, that’s what’s getting us up out of bed, but it’s…

That’s what, yeah.

Dr. John Lieurance
Partly that, but it’s also much of this circadian clock that’s stored in the blue spot and in norepinephrine. so whenever we have like an emergency, like if we were to be walking through the jungle and a tiger jumped out at us, we would look at that tiger, right? Our head would go and we would…

All of our attention would go there. There’s something called the salient network, which is, it’s like, it’s like we’re focused on something very particular. Like when we’re doing meditation, we’re improving the salient network when we’re just focusing on one thing, right? And this is a very good, powerful thing for a healthy brain is to be able to, just be focusing on a singular singular thing. that’s sale. That’s the salient network. And that’s very intimately involved.

in the locus serrules, because if you think about the locus serrules, we think about it as command central for norepinephrine. And so this is the primary stress hormone. This is a, this is a, a, a, a molecule that like really gets energy moving in the brain. And so that tiger jumps out at us and our, our C2 vertebrae is tight, is very, very strongly connected to the locus serrules. And so.

this is something that is interesting to look at when we’re doing body work is like that upper cervical as it relates to different types of emotional issues and stress responses in the body, but also our eyes, right? Our eyes looking to certain things. So the eye movement. and when we have this, lack of oxygen, like if you were to not be able to breathe, you know, if you were drowning or something like that,

then norepinephrine is gonna really kick in and it’s the CO2 sensors which are located in the locus coerulus. So you start to look at, there’s all these different things that kind of converge in. What I found, which was just the thing that I think everybody needs to really, really take very seriously is that they discovered that Alzheimer’s starts

Dr. John Lieurance
in the locus coerulus first before it’s even detected in any other place of the brain. And so these are protein tangles and beta amyloid plaques, right? That cause these conditions. And so these are basically proteins that are a response to infection or toxicity. And so what happens is when things get into our central nervous system, we have

an immune system that wants to wrap these things and to, to, to wall them off so that they stop activating inflammation in the brain. and so when scientists first started to look at these proteins, most of the science went in the direction of figuring out how they can get, find a drug that would clear out these proteins because they’re like, these proteins are the problem. But

all of that science and all of those molecules that they studied were a complete failure. And they’ve never found anything that even barely has much of an effect at all on Alzheimer’s where they’re taking that approach. And so they failed to take on the fact that it’s the root cause of the protein tangles and the beta amyloid, the different plaques, is the infection or the toxicity.

So addressing that further upstream is a much better approach to these conditions. And so if you look at what innervates the nasal passage in the mouth is the trigeminal nerve and that nerve follows its way up into the brainstem. And that’s what happens is we have improper microbial situations in our mouth, which can include our jaw, you know, or our teeth, like root canals and

you know, biological dentists can give you a real earful on all the different possibilities of places in your mouth and jaw where you can have infection, but also your nasal passage, right? So again, this is kind of going back to Ganesh and the doorways and taking care of your doorways. these doorways here have a direct connection to the locus serrules. And you can start having problems with movement because the dopamine it’s very

Dr. John Lieurance
highly connected with dopamine. Cause you imagine that, that saber tooth tiger, that tiger jumps out in the jungle. We need to move our muscles, right? So dopamine centers are very connected with that because dopamine is a neurotransmitter that gets us moving, right? We need to act on. So we see it. We have salience. We’re very focused on that. All of our attention, our ears and our eyes are moving to that. And our neck.

And then we have norepinephrine so that we have energy to move and to react to it. And all of these are highly mediated through that blue spot. so taking care of your blue spot involves things surrounding sleep and surrounding oral and nasal hygiene in particular.

Wow, that was incredible. That was incredible journey and that piece together so many things. And that also is a segue into Methylene Blue. So that’s something, you we talked about melatonin, you got to answer my question, help me help illuminate a little bit more of that for me. And maybe for anyone else listening, I definitely want to go through the whole catalog of products, but in a more strategic way.

Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Landis
because sometimes I’ll just get into things and I’ll just throw things together and just see what does what, but to actually do things in a more specific and strategical way after this conversation, I think that would be amazing. so with Methylene Blue for me, I understand it. I wanna understand more from your perspective. I haven’t had any profound experiences with it.

other than trying to clean my teeth after it.

So I think for me, just was like, I’m good. I’m just gonna, I’m not gonna deal with this. So yeah, I’d love to go deeper into that.

Yeah, well, we make a bar similar to the way we make the Sandman. And so the bar is 180 milligrams. so dosing with methylene blue is really best somewhere between one and

two or three milligrams per kilogram of body weight. You really don’t need to go past four milligrams. And in fact, the research starts to get a little sketchy when you start getting into some of those really high doses, especially if you combine that with SSRIs. But it just doesn’t work really well. Once you start to get into too high of a dose of methylene blue, it just doesn’t have its beneficial effects. So there’s kind of a sweet spot and it’s different for everybody. So we have to all

Dr. John Lieurance
play around with how much we are going to take and kind of measure that. So when you take the bar and you cut it into quarters, each quarter is 45 milligrams. And we often in the clinic will have our, you know, patients that weigh less than 150 pounds go on about 45 milligrams and let’s start at that dosage. patients that weigh more than that will usually go ahead and start them at 90 milligrams. That would be half of that bar.

So the bar can be cut into pieces and then you can just drop it into the back of your throat and then take and drink some liquid. And that way you don’t stain your teeth or you don’t get your mouth blue, which is what a lot of people get with the drops. The capsules, can find methylene blue in capsules, but we don’t really think that’s a good idea because a lot of times those capsules don’t open up until they’re like deep into your small intestine. And that can cause some leaky gut.

because the methylene blue in high concentrations in the digestive tract can be a little bit irritating. So all of it really completely absorbs in the stomach, which is what is the best way to absorb it. And that happens with the bars. So that’s one suggestion I’d have so that you don’t have to deal with cleaning your teeth. And then the other one would be likely if you were taking it where your mouth was turning blue, you were probably using the drops.

I’ve used the drops and I used the bar, but I chewed on it.

yeah, we’ve seen. Well, it works. OK. But like, you know, it still gets in there. But again, you know, the best way to take it is to just drop it in the back of the throat and then take some liquid and drink it down. And how much did you take?

Ronnie Landis
I don’t remember. I probably started with an entire bar, like the squares, and then probably tried to do half after that.

Yeah.

Dr. John Lieurance
Yeah. Well, I mean, again, it may be, it could be too much for you or, sometimes people are just healthy and they don’t, you know, they’ve got plenty of mitochondrial. it sounds like you’re doing a lot of things to support your, your health and vitality already.

Yeah, for sure. mean, I don’t really remember what was going on at the time. I don’t think I did it very strategically or I tried to analyze it too much. I know that there was a lot going on in my life at the time too. I was definitely bit distracted. So it would probably be different if I actually was a little more intentional. But yeah, mean, for me, again, I don’t remember

noticing anything really specific. that’s why, but I hear people, including yourself, talk about it all the time. So that’s why I’m just curious, what, especially with the conversation that we’ve had, particularly to the products that you, that you’ve formulated, like what, how that relates to a lot of what we’ve talked about and how you recommend people applying it.

Yeah, well, so, methylene blue supports the mitochondria in a different way that melatonin does. Melatonin again, kind of quenches that oxidation and allows the mitochondria to continue to make energy in lieu of like a lot of stress or inflammation that would otherwise shut the mitochondria down. Where methylene blue, they call it the magic bullet, because it, you know, they, they,

the scientist that coined that term is Paul Ehrlich. And he was looking to find a cure for malaria and discovered that methylene blue like killed the parasite that carried malaria. And that was a huge deal because it was one of the most, you know, challenge, biggest challenges that we had of the day back in the early 1900s. So,

Dr. John Lieurance
they coined the term magic bullet to talk about a substance that had far reaching benefits to the body, but left the body unharmed. And when taken the way that we’re talking about with the dosage and so forth, it doesn’t seem to have a lot of negatives, any, so as far as side effects. And it tends to have such a powerful effect in so many different ways because it’s working on

the energy. And so when we have more energy, a lot of different things seem to clear up in the body. Like they’ve done large clinical trials on depression. And one of the things that methylene blue does in order to cure depression is it, is it mops up inducible nitric oxide. Now, you know, we’ve been, we’ve been promoting

what I call red blue 02 and I’ve kind of teamed up with Brian Richards of Sauna Space and Jason Sauners of Hyperbaric USA and we’ve done some events and we’re looking to do another event this year, which I’d love to have you come in and participate. But this idea of combining methylene blue with photobiomodulation, which is like, you

red light therapies, and also hyperbaric and different oxygen therapies. Not just hyperbaric, but there’s different oxygen therapies that are available that are really exciting. One of which is this intermittent hypoxic training. In fact, this device that we’ve been using is just really incredible. And you’re literally breathing really low oxygen. And it’s kind of like the stressor we talked about.

right? Where you’re stressing the body so that it has better oxygen absorption utilization after the therapy. But we call this device hypoxia then, and we have more information at the dot club site about that. But so this idea of combining red, blue, O2. And so when it comes to nitric oxide, a lot of people have a lot of confusion with that because when you start to read about

Dr. John Lieurance
melt methylene blue, mopping up nitric oxide. You’ve got these nitric oxide gurus coming out saying, man, avoid methylene blue. It’s terrible. Cause you really need your nitric oxide. Well, it’s, they’ve, they’ve, they’ve not taken a little time to kind of understand nitric oxide at all. And, I’d love to just kind of like give you my, my two cents on nitric oxide, if you’d like. So

So there’s three types of nitric oxide. There’s inducible, endothelial, and neuronal. And inducible nitric oxide is designed to be a temporary, it’s a very stressful molecule because it can be combined with other chemicals to produce peroxy nitrate. And so this nitric oxide is primarily in order to deal with infection.

or toxicity. you have this swelling of the tissue. If you have like injury, you can have a lot of inducible nitric oxide that that’s what causes the swelling. Chronic arthritis, you you’re going to have a lot of inducible nitric oxide in those tissues and methylene blue mops that up. It doesn’t touch the endothelial or the neuronal. Red light and photobiomodulation primarily works on

Dr. John Lieurance
endothelial nitric oxide.

Oxygen therapy is particularly hyperbaric oxygen therapy works on both the endothelial and the neuronal, but red light and hyperbaric don’t do don’t activate inducible nitric oxide. You really don’t want a lot of inducible nitric oxide. A lot of us have too much of that and it’s not a good thing because that’s that’s causing a destruction of your blood vessels and it’s very

traumatizing to your cardiovascular system, which that what that means is you start to get a build up in a thickening of the endothelial line, a crowding out of a lot of the capillaries and the blood, the blood supply. And this is one of the biggest causes of a lot of degenerative neurologic disorders, because we’re just not getting the oxygen to our issues, right?

like getting a stroke.

Yes, right. And so a lot of these supplements people take with arginine and citrulline and so forth, you know, Hey, they can be great, but you know, try to limit that to three or four times a week while you’re, working out to kind of boost your workouts, because some of those supplements can boost the neuronal and the endothelial, to some extent, but they’re, they’re also going to elevate that inducible and put you in a higher risk category, you know, Viagra.

Dr. John Lieurance
And that can also be a risk if you’re taking a lot of Viagra chronically. Because, you know, these are these this is just chemistry. You don’t want to you don’t want to mess with too much. But one thing also.

I haven’t seen methylene blue interfere with erections, right? And if somebody is on methylene blue and they want to take Viagra or something like that, there’s no worry. You’re still going to be able to have great performance. Even if you take higher doses of methylene blue, trust me, I know I’ve also seen it with my patients and never had anybody come back and really complain about it.

Yeah, so it doesn’t doesn’t affect the nitrous oxide mechanism.

No, and so it primarily, the way that methylene blue supports mitochondria is it lubricates the electron transport chain. So it’s like these, this movement of electrons, which is producing ATP is, is lubricated. And then it enhances the ability to activate the last stage of us making ATP, which is cytochrome C.

So within the mitochondria, you have this last step, this last protein step, and cyto means cell and chrome means light. So literally, we can take photons or electrons.

Ronnie Landis
Wow. Wow. Well, that’s, that’s huge. Your cells are being powered by bio photons fundamentally. It’s not, it’s not like Colicis or ketosis or even hydrogen or oxygen. Like at the, at the, at the most fundamental level of the cell, right? It’s actually bio, we’re bio photonic. We’re like, we’re homo luminescence, like at our most like avatar spiritual core of like what we are beyond these identities that you, that you

pointed out like that that all just came through to me when you said that I was like, shit. Okay, that so that just went full circle. We just went complete full circle from everything that we just talked about into this understanding that we’re actually bio biophotonic beings.

Yes, yes, you’re right on. And so, you know, there’s this matter that we can use to make energy, you know, just like a train can take coal and burn coal, but then there’s non-matter. And, you know, you hear stories about people that are barbarians, right? And they don’t eat. And I, you know, I know that there’s this, that these people exist because I had a

I’ve been around it. I’ve seen it. I’ve felt the ether. I’m like, whoa, whatever that is, that’s real.

100

Dr. John Lieurance
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I had a buddy that was roommates with someone and they’re like, yeah, watched the guy. He didn’t eat or drink anything. he was even buff. was like, geez, wow. Cause you think they’re emaciated. said, this guy was actually ripped. was like, buff. And so that we can use, we can use photons, which is non-matter. And we do it through this, cytochrome C.

either.

Dr. John Lieurance
And if you think about, so the light that penetrates the most through our skin is red and near infrared, right? And so red and near infrared light has, because red light, think about methylene blue is this brilliantly blue colored substance. And it has an affinity, it gets into the mitochondria, right? And then it sits right in at that cytochrome C and it

absorbs red and reflects blue. That’s how it works. So it basically allows you to sponge up all of those photons and them into, so it kind of increases your energy by about 30 % in the mitochondria.

Okay, okay, wow. That just gave me a whole new perspective on all this.

Yeah. So you can see that if you have both the resilience as well as the lubrication of the mitochondria combining methylene blue and melatonin, it can be really, really powerful. We actually make a couple of products with the combination of both of those. I don’t know if you’ve tried this or not, but we recently launched a product called Satorai.

Okay.

Dr. John Lieurance
No,

I’ve tried it.

man, it’s so, Paris, so caffeine has three metabolites and, one of those metabolites is Parisian theme, Theo bromine and the, the off-line or the other two metabolites. But, what they found is that when you just isolate the Parisian theme, you get all of the, all of the jazz without any of the frazz. Yeah.

means you have like your salient network is better, like you’re able to focus your mind clear, you have more energy, but it’s super clean. Ben Greenfield originally introduced me to this and then he introduced me to Sean Wells afterwards who’s got the patent for it and so we became good friends and he actually allowed us to to produce you know this product and the only other place you can get it is with this

energy drink called update to provide those, the update drinks.

Ronnie Landis
I don’t know.

Yeah. So, so basically parisian in my opinion is one of the best no tropic. So I combined it with Bacopa and a few other, I or va Indian herbs and alpha G GCP, which I think is the best substance for memory that you can find. I just really stacked this, Satora and, we, yeah, we launched that about, and it’s been maybe about a year now.

Whoa, okay. That’s exciting. Okay, I wanna start developing some sort of protocol around that in the melatonin and the methylene blue. I mean, pretty much the whole stack. Like, I’m down for the whole catalog.

Okay. Yeah. Well, the other, the other mitochondrial support is NAD, you know, a lot of people talking about NAD and people think that they need to do an injection or they need to do an IV. But, but I, developed a suppository. also have a liposomal version of NAD max, but the suppository bypassed the suppositories.

People think, why would I want to do that? I don’t want to stick anything up my butt. like, you know, some people are really resistant to it until, either, you’re desperate. So for me, when I had, I got really sick with Lyme and mold in, you know, the early nineties and, and, and anyway, I, I found, that glutathione suppositories, just were like magical for me. And.

Dr. John Lieurance
and I would wake up and feel halfway normal. And so I started to like look into it and I started to realize that it was because it was a slow release of the glutathione overnight. My cells were able to pull a lot more glutathione in more so than if I did an IV push and it had to do with peak plasma. so peak plasma is this idea of how long is a molecule available?

in your bloodstream for your cells to pull it in. Right. And so if you take a substance orally, a lot of times peak plasma is only about an hour, maybe an hour and a half. Right. And so you have this like high load, what same thing with an IV, you know, once you stop the IV, you know, that you’re, you, you pee out the rest of it. But with a suppository, it’s a slow trickle into the bloodstream and

This is because it’s absorbing slow and it’s bypassing the liver and the digestive system so that those molecules aren’t broken down through those different processes. So it goes through the blood supply that’s around the rectum. So it’s very highly vascularized down there.

And so it absorbs directly into the bloodstream. So it’s similar to an IV. When we take things orally, a lot of times we don’t get very much absorption like NAD, glutathione, melatonin. Studies on melatonin show that it’s only two and a half percent absorbed orally. So you start to think about people taking three milligrams orally. I mean, that’s homeopathy. It’s like, there’s nothing there, right?

but it can help your sleep. Like there’s no doubt people, cause homeopathy works. But if you’re expecting to get some of the anti-aging effects that I experienced, you’re going to need to start taking things in higher doses and maybe taking it in ways that have better absorption. mean, my skin transformed my hair. was just like, after about two to three years of taking high dose melatonin,

Dr. John Lieurance
I definitely looked 10 years younger than I did.

Wow, okay. This is exactly what I needed to hear.

Mm.

This is right on the money. Thank you.

So, but NAD, you don’t have to do the IVs and with an NAD suppository, it’s much less expensive, you know, and you can do three, four or five times a week. You don’t want to do NAD every day, right? NAD basically is this, it’s a rate limiting substance that’s in our mitochondria and we get, NAD levels get depleted with age and with stress.

Dr. John Lieurance
and with lack of sleep and things like that. And a lot of alcohol and drug use really highly deplete our NAD levels. And most people are low in NAD. And so when you start to improve NAD levels, people feel better and they feel happier. They feel like they can integrate into life better. And that’s why the history of NAD goes back to

recovery and drug recovery centers, right? And people that go into these recovery centers for drug addiction, what they found is they would supplement people with NAD and they would recover better. They’d be happier. They were able to integrate back into a normal life much quicker. And then I got connected with NAD

as it became really popular with addiction. And I think this could be like 15 years now. It’s become really popular though, NAD. But I started to look at it and think, well, gosh, I think this would make a really good supplement because it’s very poorly absorbed orally. That’s why they recommend it with the IV. So that’s another exciting one that we manufacture.

Okay, amazing. well, I mean, we could do a part two and a part three for sure. Where can everybody go to find the products, join the club? I guess you have an entire kind of like library of resources all within your club medium.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, so Midazen.club, like I said, it’s a $10 lifetime membership and

Dr. John Lieurance
There’s a lot of great information in this podcast that they’ll find a lot of events that we’ve done like the red blue O2 is, you know, some of the talks, like we had Morley Robinson come in and talk about copper and we had Michael, Jason Sauners and Brian Richards. And we just really got it in and gave people a really good kind of sketch on how to utilize hyperbaric and different red light therapies and methylene blue, course.

I’m also on Instagram primarily at Dr. John Lawrence, L-I-E-U-R-A-N-C-E. We have a clinic. We haven’t really gotten into a lot of the different things we’re doing clinically out here except when the balloons, but I’m in Sarasota, Florida and our website is advancedrejuvenation.us.

All your books are available on your website and Amazon.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Cool. There’s literally so much I want to get into from a spiritual, like a psycho-spiritual perspective. And I guess we’ll have to do that on a part two. But this was amazing, John. So good to connect with you. So good to have this conversation with you. And I’m really looking forward to diving deeper.

Dr. John Lieurance
My pleasure, Ronnie. Thanks for having me your show.