Ronnie Landis: Welcome to the holistic life mastery show. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis, and really excited to share yet again, another incredible conversation with a luminary, a legend, and a leader in their particular field of expertise in transformation, holistic health, and spiritual development. And this guest is a very special guest and also, like so many of my guests, is a very good friend of mine.

Someone that I consider to be a brother, a colleague, and someone that I just love having expansive conversations with. His name is Shannon Graham. And I think this is the third time That Shannon has been on this podcast since it debuted in 2016. We’ve known each other for, you know, since 2016, 2017, something of that nature.

Shannon is a wealth of insight, wisdom, and. deep experiential knowledge when it comes to personal growth, entrepreneurship, um, elite performance mindset. And he’s also someone that works with elite performers in many different fields, CEOs of major companies, corporations, athletes, performers, um, entrepreneurs, other coaches.

He’s really a stellar human being on many accounts. I was just at his house with his beautiful wife. About a week ago, having dinner and really dropping in just, you know, before Christmas and just getting caught up on all the amazing things that he’s up to. And it’s a pleasure and an honor to be able to showcase his wisdom.

And what’s cool about this episode is that we did it in his Tesla. So we just hopped into his Tesla. Instead of going into a recording studio, we hopped into his Tesla, hit record, and. really produced an incredible conversation just between two men. And the things that we get into are really, really fascinating.

We go deep into the mindset of an elite performer, overcoming self sabotage, the quantum physics of transformation. Deleting outdated belief systems, receiving the abundance of life’s infinite supply, and ultimately living a life of freedom. And I think you’re going to really, really enjoy this conversation.

It’s very honest, authentic. And just super interesting. I’ve listened to it about two or three times myself while editing it and have pulled out a lot of nuggets for myself. And I know that you will too. So without further ado, enjoy this conversation between me and Shannon Graham. Shannon Graham, welcome to podcast.

Shannon Graham: Thank you so much for having me. 

Ronnie Landis: So we are sitting in Shannon’s Tesla Decided to do an impromptu podcast here and I’ve never done a podcast in someone’s car let alone their Tesla So I figured hey, let’s go for it. It’s a blazing hot, Texas day, but it’s perfect. It’s perfect Yeah, so we we did a podcast like so many years ago.

We’ve known each other for for many years occupying a lot of the same circles and communities and There’s a, there’s a lot we can get into. We’ve had a lot of really interesting conversations since you, you and your partner recently moved here to Austin just shy of a month ago, and then you and I have been reconnecting.

And so there’s a lot of things that I want to pick your brain on, but before we do, like how’s the integration in Austin been? 

Shannon Graham: Uh, man, you know, it’s been awesome because there’s such amazing people here. Um, there’s such amazing growth happening here. And, uh, yeah, I’ve really just been loving it. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm.

Yeah. What, what for you, what is it about Austin for you that feels like home in this stage of life? Well, 

Shannon Graham: In this season of my life, certainly, uh, friends and community is, is more of a priority than ever. And all of my friends and community from California have all moved here. Uh, and so, uh, yeah, that reengaging with them and, and having that be part of my life is definitely important.

Um, and yeah, that’s definitely a major part for sure. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, for sure. Um, I’m wanting to get a little bit into your backstory. So, so Shannon, Shannon’s someone I would say is extremely successful. As an entrepreneur, as a coach, uh, um, a mentor, a leader, really, and none of that really does it justice. And we’ll get into some more of the, like, details of what that looks like and how that man manifests through you and your work.

And a very, very big vision type of thinker. Uniquely big vision like visions in the sense that. Most people might have the idea or inkling, but would never approach that, would never consider that as a realistic, viable option. No matter how much money they may have. It’s just not something they would say, oh yeah, I’m gonna do that, and actually do it.

I’d love to know, where did that come from? Did you always have that, or is that something you developed?

Shannon Graham: Just so that I can answer your question, uh, specifically, do you mean where did the vision come from, or where did the Vision, 

Ronnie Landis: ambition, like that drive? 

Shannon Graham: Yeah, well, the, the vision came from, I think, just me being able to see the world differently than it is. Mm. Um, but more specifically, to see it more in alignment with its potential, and then to have, Kind of ideas about how to bring it closer from where it is to that.

Um, and then I’ve also followed that up with a belief system that not only can I have the idea, but I can be the one that, um, moves it forward. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Were there any particular, like, things in your childhood or formative years that, like, catalyzed? Any, like, major turning points?

Shannon Graham: Uh, well, certainly, when I was young, uh, I got exposed to some self improvement uh, material. In my, kind of, mid to late teens. And that made a big, big difference on my mindset and, uh, on my personal habits. belief systems. And so I would say that that definitely is a major contributor. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, I’m just trying to probe into like the psychological development, just as the foundation, and especially for anyone listening to, I know for me, I’ve been exposed to every spectrum of transformation, personal development, like every single conversation in that realm.

And I’ve also had to witness a lot of the The anti self or this, the negative self talk or the, the contradictory opposing dialogues that come in, no matter how much self development work I’ve done or that I’m aware of.

So, so I, like, for me, I’m always trying to like tap into somebody’s mindset in their heart’s What, what, I guess in another way of putting it, you know, speaking about like self sabotage, that’s something I actually want to talk to you about. So we’ll just go right into it. Um, this idea of self sabotage or self defeating habits, patterns, thought loops.

Like, if we have a vision, we have goals, um, and we’re making forward progress to it, it does seem, at least in my experience and a lot of people that I work with, as you build momentum, there’s an opposing force that sometimes comes in to confront that. 

Shannon Graham: Uh, yeah, I think that that can be true, um, you know, self sabotage is certainly a very real thing.

And I think a lot of what that stems from is somebody’s Identity. Because belief systems are really typically a side effect of an identity. And so it’s, it’s difficult to live in a reality. That is contradictory to your identity for too long. Once it gets past a certain kind of breaking point, then the subconscious kicks in and says, No, no, no, this is not right.

We gotta get, we gotta change this back to what it should be. So what it should be, therein lies the secret. Um, which is kind of like that identity is important to shift before you embark on the journey. 

Ronnie Landis: Um, 

Shannon Graham: because that’s what’s going to allow those moments where potentially the journey could go like in a self sabotage type of way.

Yeah. It’s going to go in a different path where it only continues to get better and better. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay, thank you. Beautifully put. I want to talk more about what you just said as a practical like roadmap. of setting up your quote unquote identity. In other words, how you identify with yourself and your, your patterns and your behavior, your mode of operation.

Um, I’m curious for you, like, did you, is this something that was pretty straightforward for you? Did you already kind of conceive and believe and, and operate with a certain identity? Or has it been, like most people, has it been a little bit of a, Oh yeah, 

Shannon Graham: it’s been a fumbling process for sure. I am certainly not immune.

I may have some unique gifts and perspectives and things like that. But, you know, as far as some of the very common mindset traps that many of us fall into, Uh, I’m, I’m definitely not immune, and so, uh, the biggest one, or, or certainly one of the biggest ones for me has been this, this concept, and the identity, and, and the, the energy of worthiness, uh, because I found that, like, what we, Get what we allow and not just what we get but how much we get How much we keep 

and 

and how gracefully we can receive 

all 

of that kind of directly points towards someone’s worthiness and so for me again, I Went from a, there was phases, stages of it, of like, well, I just don’t deserve it, to okay, I deserve it, but it has to be really hard, to okay, I deserve it, and it can be more than what I’ve experienced before, and there can be some grace, there can be some ease in the, In the receiving of that.

Yeah. So it’s these layers. And, and it’s been fun to play with because it’s this, these fun dimensions of like, okay, can I allow a little bit more in this dimension? Can I stretch a little bit more in this dimension? And then as you stretch these different dimensions, the whole container expands. And it creates for a, a very, um, beautiful, uh, reality.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, so long as we don’t sabotage it. That’s right. As long as we don’t get in the way. So you work with, you work with a lot of types of people, and I know that you work with a lot of what we would call high performers or very successful entrepreneurs, CEOs, um, which are all just human beings, right? That have the same struggles and same thoughts and same dynamics that anyone else has.

Does just maybe at a more intensified and amplified level. What are, what are some of the biggest, like, I guess, strengths and also complimentary challenges do you find with people you work with? Well, 

Shannon Graham: certainly one of the strengths they have is that they’re visionary. They all have a really scary ability to see the world different and better than it currently.

What’s beautiful about that is they all have different visions. So some of them, for example, have created. The world’s first platform for ending video game addiction. Uh, another is a FinTech startup that focuses on financial empowerment for Hispanic immigrants. So they all have visions of seeing the world as better.

It just so happens that their perspective and their slant on what better means or looks like is different. 

And 

that’s beautiful because eventually you get these overlapping concentric circles. And the whole world improves as a result. So certainly vision is one of them. But I would also say a growth mindset because they’re smart enough to know that you can’t solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created them.

Right. So it’s one thing to have the vision, but it’s another thing to Become the person who can actually figure out the way to create that, and not just the way to create that, but the way to create that, um, the most gracefully, the most effortlessly, the most collaboratively. the most synergistically, the most, um, sustainably.

Yeah. Um, so, yeah, that, the vision plus the growth mindset, I would say, are really the big factors. What are some of the challenges 

that 

you find with these, these individuals? Uh, I think many of them, have some type of internal hang up as far as, you know, who they believe they are, or who they believe they’re not.

Um, and some of them will have habits that maybe are detrimental, or at least not complementary. 

Ronnie Landis: Vices, addictions. Yeah, things like that. 

Shannon Graham: Um, and it doesn’t even have to be that bad. It’s just something that, that will cause them to detract from being the best version of themselves. Yes. You know? Yes. So, um, it’s about helping them kind of get clear on what those are.

Because often, you know, if the vices and habits tend to be things that we’re not even aware of. So if there’s a level of unawareness, then to bring, kind of shine the light on it, and then create clarity about how to shift that and make it something new and different. 

Ronnie Landis: Maybe we’re aware of it, but we don’t know what the actual impact it’s having.

Shannon Graham: Yeah, I think that’s true. I would also say that sometimes It’s hard for people to know how to change. Rough. And so, they may, they may have some level of awareness of the impact. Um, but they shy away from opening to a new chapter simply because there’s likely something that needs to happen as far as It’s like looking at themselves and reconciling some part of themselves.

And that’s not necessarily beautiful or easy. The outcome is a beautiful, um, but you know, sometimes to, to face the sides of ourself that are wounded or that are. you know, disconnected. Um, that’s, that’s not necessarily something we, we wake up in the morning excited to do. Right. Uh, and yet it tends to be like the small hinge that swings the big door when it comes to just about everything.

Ronnie Landis: What I, what I find is like we’re dealing with momentum and we can have like a positive momentum force and a negative momentum force and the negative momentum force. It’s easy, it’s seductive, it’s easily accessible. Um, the positive takes longer up front efforts and investment, but ultimately it can carry you.

Right, and I feel like that, that sometimes is the challenge is we’ve developed certain, we’ve developed a certain amount of momentum in a certain direction. That it’s almost like we get, we, to pull back, it creates a certain inertia that I imagine, like as an entrepreneur, as an ambitious person who probably thrives on momentum, it’s hard to feel that gap.

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: That, that gap can, for some people really be like, take you out of the game. Um, so yeah, I would agree with that. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, what, what, um, I’m just really curious, like, what, what is your approach to, whether it’s yourself or anyone else that you’re supporting in this, this kind of dynamic, what, what is like your, your approach to helping them not only navigate it, but make those, those connections?

So all the momentum in their life can move in the same direction. 

Shannon Graham: Well, part of it is waking them up to that. Some people get in the game and think that when they do this work, we’re talking about that, that it makes them impervious to challenges. Um, or, you know, pitfalls, things like that. Um, and that’s not the case.

There are certainly things we can do to get out of our own way, to make the journey more effortless. And there’s, there will always be things outside of us that will detract. The most successful people in history. Are typically some of the biggest failures. That’s just part of it. Elon I think has blown up something to the effect of like four or five rockets at this point Imagine the time and the money and the resources and the manpower that goes into building a rocket Yeah, and then you light the fuse on that bitch and it fucking blows up four times, five times.

Like that’s a lot that those, it just one of those losses would be enough for most people 

to 

pack it in and go home. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: And Elon’s like, nah, okay. Back to the drawing board. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Let’s do it again. Um, so to prepare people for, and there’s two sides of this, which is kind of funny because I don’t hear many people talk about the second side that I’m moving up.

But the first side is conditioning that person. For the inevitable punch in the face. 

Ronnie Landis: Cause it’s gonna 

Shannon Graham: happen. You can have all the awesome beliefs, and you can have the, the, the resolved identity. And you can create and experience way more grace in life. 100%. Totally true. And, and the inevitable punch in the face is going to happen.

Yep. So what do you do when it does? Your, your ability to take the punches and to keep moving forward, to take the punches with a smile on your face and to keep moving forward, that’s a huge asset. Now, there’s an interesting side to this equation, which is the equal opposite, which is, sometimes, when things get really good, our tendency is to create drama.

Because when things get too easy, there’s no problems to solve. Especially if you grew up in a chaotic environment. Sure, sure. We, we like some level of friction because that’s how we know we’re alive. 

Ronnie Landis: You know, 

Shannon Graham: you live high on the hog for too long and it’s like, it’s boring. It’s boring. Like, like Alan Watts.

It talks about like, well, you know, if you, if you were God and you could have any dream you wanted, you would probably start off with like the best of the best, right? Everything you don’t have. Perfect life. Yeah. In every way. Whatever that looks like for you. And you would do that. And let’s imagine you could do that for any amount of time.

Eventually you’d get bored. Yep. And eventually you’d be like, Okay, well, we need some variety here. Yep. So you’d throw in some wrenches, and you’d throw in some plot twists, and, and possibly even some enemies, right? Mm hmm. Some, some things to shake things up. You gotta sharpen the sword, you know? Iron sharpens iron.

So, challenges, innately, have always been a really great way for mankind to grow, expand, right? To improve. Because it’s necessity. It’s like, you either triumph over the challenge or you die. So that, that, that, what I just said is embedded deep into our DNA, but it’s no longer necessary for our evolution. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm.

Growth 

Shannon Graham: is, growth is, and some level of challenge, but challenge that is self, uh, chosen. Mm. Rather than life having to throw it at us. So what happens is the subconscious is like, oh, you’re, you’re getting too lazy. We need to shake this up a little bit. We’re gonna throw some stuff at you. That’s where it gets messed up.

Uh, uh huh. We want to remove ourselves from the equation as much as possible. So the other side of the coin that I, that I, the punchline that I’m getting to is sometimes the challenge people have is that it’s too good. There’s this struggle of like, I got, I’ve, I’ve achieved everything I want and, and I live in this world of abundance and flow and grace and synergy and collaboration.

They’re like, they’re like looking out of the corner of their eye, like. For the shoe to drop, you know, like wait a minute. It’s too quiet. It’s too good 

Ronnie Landis: Mm 

Shannon Graham: hmm, and there’s some anticipation of like something’s got to go wrong. That’s that old Reptile brain basically saying like look you got to keep the sword sharp, you know And so there’s this there’s this phase of like acceptance No, this just gets to be how it is.

Life is gonna throw plenty of challenges at me. I don’t have to worry about whether those are gonna happen or not. I don’t have to create the drama. It’s part of the play. So I don’t, I don’t have to go out of my way. I can just enjoy this. And, as funny as that sounds, that’s a big part of the game. people start making more money than they ever have consistently, all of a sudden it’s like, oh, now I’m doing what I want to do, living where I want to live, going where I want to go, creating what I want to create, and it just gets so good that inevitably there’s some type of bump in the system.

So to not let that override the system, to acknowledge it, to honor it, and to kind of keep moving forward, uh, is, is another side of that coin, which is that, I’ve experienced, personally, and 

Ronnie Landis: with the people that I work with. Yeah, well this is a really great point you’re bringing up, and I think this is, this is the counterbalance, and from what I’m tuning into, like, the evolutionary perspective you’re talking about, of what had gotten us here is not going to get us there, and what has served us is not necessary for our next stage in evolution, just as a human being in his or her own skin, and with all the stress and distress and anxiety and fear, Fear and doom and gloom and everything that’s being bombarded on our nervous system.

And the accumulated stress fractures, I call it stroma. So it’s stress plus time creates trauma and the accumulation of stress over time creates. A, a bundled up trauma and then, you know, that’ll manifest in the body in a myriad of different ways, but just within our psyche, it’s like we’re pre, we’ve become predisposed and almost like trained to anticipate the threat around the corner.

It’s like, so do we create it or are we anticipating it? Is it self induced? Is it, is it partly psychic? It gets very hard to tell. What the chicken or the egg is so I’m here. So I’m hearing from you is like, okay, there’s there’s that acknowledgment. Yes It’s been hard. Yes. This is the way things have happened all the way up to now and It is a choose your own adventure story You can have a completely different experience other than the reference points that you’ve had up to this point.

And I remember when we went to dinner a couple weeks ago, you said your edge was about receiving, right? Yeah. I want to, I want to go into that. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. Well, I think it starts, it’s, it’s a micro macro conversation. For me personally, the question is, can I benefit from more Can I benefit from expanding my capacity to receive?

And remember, it’s multidimensional, so that, there’s a number of questions within that, which is like, How much can I receive? What is the speed in which I can allow that to happen? Right? The number, uh, let’s, if we’re talking about money as an example, 

Ronnie Landis: Okay, 

Shannon Graham: maybe in the past there was a certain number that I could allow, but my belief system was that it needed to take X amount of time.

Yeah. Can I receive something That is the same amount in a shorter amount of time. Because certainly that’s possible, right? There’s no limit to what’s possible. So it simply comes down to can I get behind that? Okay, so there’s how much, how fast, and then there is How graceful. How easy or hard does it need to be?

So that’s, you can use money as an interchangeable example, because you could easily, um, switch that word for something like love. 

Ronnie Landis: How much can you take? When you have the money, then what do you want? You want the 

Shannon Graham: love. Or maybe, maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe money is not your top priority. But it’s everybody’s to some extent.

To some degree I would, yeah, I would agree. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Uh, but, but I’m just saying that, that receiving is an interchangeable conversation. Meaning money, love. It’s really energy that we’re trying to receive, right? It’s, I think what it really, that, I think what we’re trying to receive is the message unto ourselves Mm, 

Ronnie Landis: mm hmm, 

Shannon Graham: mm hmm.

that we deserve it. Bingo. Yeah. Bingo. And that just manifests itself in different ways, you know? But it’s all just us reflecting back to ourselves. to us that we’re, that we’re worth it. 

Ronnie Landis: And we have different belief programs kind of entrained in particular areas of our life that are unique to us but are not so unique.

Yeah. It’s only our personal experience because we’re the only one living in our own life. Sure. But it’s not something that makes us special. It’s not like this isn’t universal. No. And I would, I would say 

Shannon Graham: that it actually makes you not special because everyone else has some degree of the same thing. And so, yeah, it’s, I, so for me personally, it’s like, okay, to have this history of having this kind of like worthiness wound, if you will, and, and really shutting myself off from a lot of what I wanted to receive.

And so a lot of this also has to do with. Honestly, what do you want? Remember that question is so hard for people to answer. What do you want? Because there’s two answers. There’s like the answer that’s like what fits within my beliefs and what fits within like what I think I deserve. Based on the programs, and the stories, and the bullshit, and the whatever.

And then there’s just like, the truth. If I could just let go of all the limiting beliefs, all of the limiting whatever, and just really be honest about what I want, there’s a different answer. And that’s true for money, that’s true for love, that’s true for impact, that’s true for a number of different things.

So playing with that, within myself, how honest can I get? You know, how honest can I get? So there’s an honesty factor, there’s a how much factor, there’s a how fast factor, there’s a how gracefully factor. And then that applies to my bigger picture of like, Most of what I desire to, to do in the world as far as impact also relates to me being the greatest example of the behavior that I see.

Being the role model. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because Roger Bannister broke the four minute model. 

Ronnie Landis: Yep. 

Shannon Graham: And simply as a function of him doing it. Mm hmm. 22 other people the year he did it. 

Ronnie Landis: Also did it. Like the observer effect. The observer effect. Created this like morphogenic resonance. It’s, it’s absolutely insane.

That’s an interesting point. I never even thought about that from that perspective. Cause you know, when we hear that story, people are like, Oh yeah, now I believe I can do it. It’s deeper than that. There’s, it’s gotta be some kind of energetic quantum entanglement that happens. 100%. Like it creates this evolutionary milestone, and there’s this, energetic impulse that’s now carried through and it has to be, it’s partly physiological because that’s a physiological thing that you train yourself to do.

So it can’t just be like a mindset shift and like, Oh, I can believe I can do it. So now I can do it. Yeah. There’s like, there, there is a, there is some sort of catalytic effect in the field itself. It’s crazy 

Shannon Graham: because the, even So you’re right about the physical side. Obviously somebody has to have the physical capacity to do that.

Right, 

Ronnie Landis: yeah, that’s right. 

Shannon Graham: But the interesting thing is, all the people who did it after he did it, they technically could have done it already. Yeah. They had the physical ability, they just didn’t have the mindset. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm. 

Shannon Graham: And so he was like the catalyst to open that potentiality up. And it’s wild. The implications are nuts.

Because it was one person. Right. It wasn’t like this staggered, like, well it had to happen by X amount of people. And then it went quantum. Oh, right. One person. And it was like, that’s pretty wild. So, my desire from a receiving standpoint is to be a beacon for that, 

Ronnie Landis: for not 

Shannon Graham: only myself but other people. So that when they get in my atmosphere, they’re like, damn, this guy, whoa, man, this guy just receives at a different level.

Man, and then the longer they are in my atmosphere, the more they’re like, Nothing against this guy, but he’s not special in the, in terms of like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there’s no magic here. Like, he’s just open to that. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Maybe I could be too. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. 

Shannon Graham: And if that’s all I do is just open that mindset of like, maybe that’s possible for me too, Mmm.

I’ve done my job. Mmm. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And, and dude, what a, what? I mean, again, this in a world where we can be and do and have and give. Mm-Hmm. anything? Mm-Hmm. , anything? Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . The only limitation is how, how much of that can I receive? How honest can I 

be? 

And 

Ronnie Landis: this, this is, this is profound on many, many levels.

Um, speaking of opulent abundance and just the awareness of it, like as a nutritionist and giving like hundreds of lectures way back in the day on, on just food and nutrition and health and awareness. Like I would, I would weave the information and some kind of inspired inspiring story. Cause I know that personal development and holistic health is, For me, I need to marry the two because they’re, because they’re actually one in the same.

Otherwise it’s some diet or something. It is stupid. It doesn’t mean anything, but I would make this point. I was like, does anyone here recognize that this is the first time in human history that anyone can actually choose a diet? Like before the 1960s you had like spirulina and bulgur weed and whatever, whatever processed industrial food.

We, and people are arguing about this diet. And that time, like guys, do you realize we’ve never actually been able to select a diet before it’s never been a thing. So the fact that we have coconut oil, do you know what it takes? How many coconuts have to be pressed to get a jar of coconut oil? Like, we live in the most opulent times of abundance, but you know, it’s like Tony Robbins says we, we, we live in a, we, how do you say it, we’re, we’re, we’re starving for wisdom.

We’re drowning in information, starving for wisdom. That’s it. Yeah. And so it’s like, we don’t even recognize it. And it feels like we’re, maybe we’re like overwhelmed with decision fatigue and don’t know what to do with it. Well, it’s new. 

Shannon Graham: Much of where humanity is. Abundance is new to us. The age of abundance is new.

And so, inevitably, when a child learns to walk, initially they fall. That’s a metaphor. That will always be the case. We will never get it right, right off the bat. That’s just the human process. If walking and talking and, like, even relationships, just look at relationship, look at your curve, my curve, of, you know, Relationships.

Man, if I look back at some points in my timeline, I’m like, you know, like for sure, there’s a growth there. You’re never going to get it right the first time around, even if you get it mostly right, simply as a fact of like never, never done it before. Yeah. There’s always going to be a learning curve. Yeah.

So when it comes to abundance, when it comes to grace, when it comes to expansion, when it comes to all of these things. None of that has been an option for more time than it has been an option. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. Right. So we’re running a program that’s like The neural networks are being, the synapses are being reestablished.

That’s right. Oh, this is 

Shannon Graham: good. So we’re in a phase of stumbling, which is beautiful. Because what does that mean? We’re on the way towards walking. 

Ronnie Landis: What just came to me when you said that is like, Because there’s literally a neuroplastic, synaptic, genic restructuring and rewiring of our literal brain. It’s like, that’s, that’s the interesting thing with the self sabotage patterns that try to intercept it.

Cause it’s not some nefarious thing, it’s just self preservation, protection. And they, but the problem is they come in and disrupt the insulation of the new identity and the new neural network. And so what just came to me is like, Delayed gratification, patience, discipline become even more important because now it’s like I need to give my neurology enough time and space to properly myelinate the changes without going and throwing something in because I’m uncomfortable with the, the, The process.

That’s right. 

Shannon Graham: That’s exactly right. And you see, if you look at society today, and you look at a lot of the unrest, Yeah. There’s almost no reason for it. Totally. I have this concept that I call recreationally offended. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s like virtue signaling. Yeah. Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: A lot of what’s happening right now is that we actually have it so good.

We have it so good. Yeah, totally. That people need something because they’re not used to this age of abundance. They’re not used to this age where everything is so good. 

Ronnie Landis: And it’s all going to fall apart, Shannon. Can’t you see around the corner in your Tesla? It’s all falling apart. There’s a big crack in the concrete over there.

Ready, just a gaping hole to swallow it all up. Yeah, it’s, it’s 

Shannon Graham: amazing that that’s where people’s mind goes. Like, you, you, you live in a world where you can literally be, do, have, and give everything, anything. Yep. And what people default is to, is to that there’s something wrong or there’s something that, that isn’t right or, and it’s not to say that there’s not things.

Ronnie Landis: But it’s like this complaining energy. It’s like, there’s an addiction to complaining and 

Shannon Graham: It’s, it’s an addiction to complaining, and what it really is, I think, I have a hunch that the idea of leaning into this current age and being and doing and having and giving what’s really in a person’s heart is still just a little too Radical.

Yeah. So instead of leaning into that, their priority, their energy, their intention, their attention gets funneled into something else. Now, ironically, the something else, when you look at certain ways in which people fight against things. And you ultimately look at the effectiveness of that, much of it falls flat.

So there’s something happening there of like, Oh, like at the, at the deepest level in these people’s minds. It’s like, I have this opportunity to move towards all this beauty, all this synergy, all this expansion. And I’m going to choose to go over here. Where all my efforts, for the most part, are going to lead 

Ronnie Landis: to nothing.

Dude, you’re just I mean, that’s actually, that’s hitting home right now. Because I’ve been able to track both sides of my own mind. Like, where it’s like, so many opportunities, so many business opportunities, so many things, like Every day I’m having a powerful conversation with someone I’ve known for years who’s presenting me a perfectly aligned opportunity in a particular dimension.

It’s creating this symmetrical puzzle, and I’m watching it happen. And then noticing, like, when it drops off. And then the conversations stop. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: And then seeing that open gap. And where it’s like, oh, okay, nothing I do is gonna make a difference. This email, this post, this text, this call. It’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s strange.

Yeah. And I’m just like, I’m just now just stepping back as an energetic architect instead of trying to make everything happen or fix everything, just stepping back, like, okay, there’s an energetic reality to how my, my external is showing up and there’s a one for one, there’s a me and then there’s a it, there’s a relationship.

And so I’ve, I’ve just started to step back more, stop trying to control things or grasp for things and just step back of like, okay. Am I self sourcing right now? It’s great when things are happening. It feels good. It’s good for it feels like my timeline is coming together. Yeah. And there must be some sort of like divine delay.

Like I’m getting, I’m getting, I’m, in other words, what I’m, what I’m recognizing is like, at least the meaning I’m making of it is that I’m being given glimpses of potential, but it’s like, you’re not quite ready. Yeah. So you’re still cooking a little bit. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. So in that space, that space is actually grace, but I’m getting, but to your point, learning how to receive, because if all these things happened all at once, I’m not ready to do that.

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: I, I, I, I, I could get ready, but it wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t be the legacy, that longterm, that thing that I’m really, really wanting underneath the circumstance of what I’m really wanting. Yeah. Is that, that legacy. Right. And so that’s kind of what I’m, I’m curious to get your thoughts on this. Like, I’m just, I’m just tuning into that.

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Like, that space. Well, what I’m, what I’m hearing you say 

Shannon Graham: is that despite all of the things in this season that you’re really wanting. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm. 

Shannon Graham: What I hear you wanting the most is to be the type of man. Mm hmm. That can hold it all. Yes. You know, not just create it, but like, like a kingdom. Mm. Like hold it.

You know? Yeah. Um, because as you and I both know, the receiving is one aspect. Mm. But the holding is another. Totally. And I think that as, as, as creators, as men, the ability to hold that. Mm. is, is paramount. Look at what happens to people who win the lottery. Oh, right. Within 24 months, gone. Why? Because their internal capacity to hold that is not there.

Now, you hear about that often, but let’s look at the other side of the equation that you don’t hear about as often. Generational wealth. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: You can’t fuck with that. Right. It is so, the container is so foundationally solid. Mm. That multiple generations of, of detracting and determined can’t even make a dent in it.

Right. And so it’s these sides of the spectrum that it’s important to understand. It’s like, oh, most people look at people who have money and say, it’d be nice to have their money. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm. 

Shannon Graham: That’s a mistake. That’s a mistake. That, again, that’s synonymous with, with love or, or anything. They want to have the thing that they have.

But the question is. Who did they become? What they have to go through in order to create it. Yeah, and to hold it because because if we could just give it to you Probably probably. Mm hmm a person as they are now Can’t hold it. Oh, absolutely. I’ll being able to discern the difference. Yeah Because I can tell you man from pure experience that even if you I could grant you everything that you wanted right now.

A, if you didn’t have the capacity to hold it, I’d be doing you a disservice. And B, even if you could hold it, the fact that you jumped the line. 

Ronnie Landis: Uh, it’s a character flaw. 

Shannon Graham: It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, you’re, and it’s not, so this, it gets interesting because there is an element of grace, the identity. 

Ronnie Landis: There’s where this is, this is it right here, bro.

This is it. It’s like, I would make this, I would make this comment a lot about the law of attraction group. And I’ve fallen into this like in little moments, but I never like, as far as like, God being a vending machine for all your desires. And I think that’s when the word God was replaced with the word universe.

And it became kind of interesting to me because it’s hard for me to develop like a relationship with this thing called a universe. It became more like, I don’t know, algorithmic. And it became more selfish. Like, Oh, I want this. I desire this. So therefore, I need to just focus on myself and what I want. And at some point, it’s just going to come to me.

But what you’re saying is like, really like spiritual maturity. It’s not the thing you want. A, it’s the feeling. But beyond that, it’s actually the person, the character, is what you really want. That’s right. To, to, 

Shannon Graham: to ultimately wake up and realize that that is who you are. The person that not only created it, but that, that’s a different level.

Ronnie Landis: Because then what do you do after you hold it? You want to give it. You want, 

Shannon Graham: well, you want to enjoy it. Of course. You want to enjoy the heck out of it. Which involves people 

Ronnie Landis: receiving. And you receive. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. I’m just, I’m now I’m asking you because you’ve been on that spectrum. You’ve had very little, you have a lot, you’re, you’re getting ready to get married to your, your sweetheart.

So after quote unquote accumulating or receiving say money, material wealth, community, whatever it may be, what really is there? Like what, what do you receive? Like, in other words, what I’m asking is like, Do you feel that in your giving, you receive the most? Uh, I, I 

Shannon Graham: certainly feel, well, I, I think that they’re equal.

Got it. I think that they’re equal. Which is more important? Breathing in or breathing out? The receiving is just as nourishing and enriching as the giving. There tends to be to be something in the human psyche that, that loves to give. Uh, and I think that that’s a little bit of just an outdated part of us because we’ve done, we’ve done such a good job.

I’m a giver. 

Ronnie Landis: Like 

Shannon Graham: I, that’s my default. That’s most people’s default. Right. That’s most people’s default. And again, that’s, that’s been part of the cultural narrative. The reason that most people are such good givers is because they’re not great receivers. It’s like a compensation. That’s right. So it’s like, yeah, giving feels really good.

And it’s like, we’re bankrupt in this other, I don’t know anyone that’s like, that’s, that’s, Like equal, like on totally like balanced, right? That that is like, well, giving is better. They’re like, no, I love, I love 

Ronnie Landis: both, because if you’re equal, it’s, it’s actually not even you. It’s just an energy flow. Well, it’s an energy flow, right, that you young, but 

Shannon Graham: if one is more than the other.

Then, what you’re kind of pointing to is that you somehow are less than. Oh, interesting. Which doesn’t make sense. Interesting. Doesn’t make sense. How could you receiving be less than someone else receiving? 

Ronnie Landis: Especially if, if you understand the dynamic of giving in order for For you to give, contribute, you have to be able to self source, which is receiving.

That’s right. You have, so like taking care of yourself, nourishing yourself, making time for yourself, doing all the things that we all know and talk about as far as like health and vitality goes. Yeah. And how much of a challenge that is for people to, like, make an appointment for themselves. Oh 

Shannon Graham: yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah.

Big time. The 

Shannon Graham: absolute most gangster givers are the best receivers. Uh huh. Because they give from a place 

Ronnie Landis: of overflow. It’s, it’s, it’s truly authentic. It’s truly grace. It’s grace. Thank you. That’s the word. It’s truly grace. Yeah. Because 

Shannon Graham: there’s nothing pulling. There’s no There’s no agenda. There’s no agenda.

There’s no attachment to 

Ronnie Landis: getting. Mmm. There’s none of that. Look, if you don’t have, if you’re not resourced, there’s going to be an attachment. Inevitably. It’s not, you’re not a bad person, it’s just, it is what it is. Well, 

Shannon Graham: if you, when you give that which you do not have, you turn those who receive from you into thieves.

I 

Ronnie Landis: think, I think I remember hearing you say that many years ago. Yeah. So it’s true. Say that one more time. When 

Shannon Graham: you give that which you do not have. You turn those who receive from you into thieves. Wow. Yeah. And so it’s about moving away from that to a more elevated exchange. Because if I give to you purely because I have a desire to give, with no attachment to getting, then two beautiful things happen.

You get the full expression of the giving with no attachment. Weird energy of, of like, oh, now I need to, you know, there’s no weirdness. So you get the actual thing that I’m wanting to give you, but you’re also getting an experience of pure grace. Of pure, unmerited favor. Like divinity. Yeah. And so that much of the time can be actually worth more than whatever it is.

Oh 

Ronnie Landis: yeah. Those little moments of just divinity, grace, spirit peek a booing. Well, let’s 

Shannon Graham: think about it. This is how I like to think about it. Who did Jesus hang out with the most? The beggars? The 

Ronnie Landis: beggars, prostitutes, the disenfranchised, the untouchables. The quote unquote lowest of the low. Right. 

Shannon Graham: But how did he closest to the ground?

Closest to the ground . How did he treat them? 

Ronnie Landis: With absolute grace? With total, with total grace? Well, grace, 

Shannon Graham: right? Wow. So he made them feel, mm, like Mm, they were worthy of being loved. Mm. That there was nothing wrong with them. That they weren’t bad. They weren’t broken. They weren’t broken, that they were worthy of being loved.

Wow. And that they were special. Wow. Man, what a gift. Wow. You couldn’t give someone a better gift. Wow. And so, if, like, to imagine that you or I could somehow participate with 

Ronnie Landis: that, 

Shannon Graham: you know? 

Ronnie Landis: Because 

Shannon Graham: right, right before he peaced out, what did he say? He said, What better works will you do? Right? So that, that’s like, for me and you, that’s like, oh right, like he was on to something.

Ronnie Landis: Which that flies in the face of like, the absolutist, literalistic, Christian, Catholic, we’re all sinners, we all have to continuously repent for our sins, God, you know, Jesus was God incarnate. 

Shannon Graham: Right. 

Ronnie Landis: Therefore. We can never hope to live up to that. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. Well, here’s the ironic part about that. I love this one.

Yeah. My follow up to that is, is simply two questions. Number one, We’re all children of God. Exactly. Aren’t we? Exactly. The answer is yes. Then, my follow up question is, well then, how is it that an apple tree can produce lemons? Exactly. It’s impossible. It’s literally impossible for an apple tree to produce lemons.

And 

Ronnie Landis: if it is, that means it has a faulty program. Oh, 

Shannon Graham: for sure. 

Ronnie Landis: And so, 

Shannon Graham: there’s, there’s this big misconception of, of who and what we are. Mm. And, um, yeah, it, it seems wild that an all loving, benevolent being could create something that was wicked and, and sinful and terrible. Mm hmm. That needed to be saved and all of this, but that would, that would, that directly points at that apple trees make lemons, which makes zero sense.

Ronnie Landis: And has never ever been true in any example other than maybe gene splicing and genetic engineering and grafting, maybe. Which is human inner, you know, gene therapy, which is a 

Shannon Graham: whole other thing. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: So, so it’s really the conversation is like, can we expand our ability to receive? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: And not necessarily because that makes us better givers, but, but when it’s time to give, it makes us better givers.

Ronnie Landis: It’s like the paradox of having no agenda yet having a, a, a noble Intention. Yeah, that’s right. Right. Mm hmm. It’s like I’m I’m how good can I receive life? Yeah, and that also means the ups and the downs the left and the right the the The good and the bad the positive and negative Right, and I think that’s a that’s a key point for all especially like the spiritual community That hasn’t fully been able to integrate the, the stuff of the heavens and the stuff of the earth, and come together, and I find it interesting that when you meld the word heart and heaven together, you get heart, or heaven and earth, you get heart.

I think that’s what this comes down to. Like what’s true in your heart. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. Yeah. How, how much can, can your, how much remember, um, remember the Grinch at the end when his heart grows, like it’s like, how, how open to that are you, you know, 

Ronnie Landis: like change the entire, like biosphere. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. He was, he, at the end, he opened himself up.

Wow. To something different. Wow. And it allowed his heart to grow and what was possible for him after, remember he lifts up the thing? 

Ronnie Landis: Hmm. What’s possible 

Shannon Graham: when we allow more into our life is that we’re capable of more and it becomes this beautiful cycle, it becomes this beautiful self fulfilling prophecy.

So we allow more, we become more, we can do more, we can give more. And it all just kind of works. With it itself in that way. 

Ronnie Landis: So Laura asked me the other night, she’s like, is there something that is there, is there something in you that’s afraid of being like world famous and like really like being that?

And I didn’t have a direct answer other than I was like, well, obviously. Obviously, there is something there for sure, and it really just speaks to everything that we’re talking about. Yeah. The truth and the desire in my heart, the capability, the proven development of that capability, this profound potential that’s there, and then also the gap between who I believe I am and that version of me coming into the world.

You know. Yeah. Coming together. Yeah. It’s beautiful. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I wonder if it’s just like For me, it feels like it just comes down to self acceptance. 

Shannon Graham: It’s a big, big, big, big part of the game. For sure. Yeah. How, how deeply can you accept yourself? The good, and the bad. The bad tends to be where most people go, which is like, hey, I have these feelings.

flaws. I have these parts of myself that maybe are dark. Can I accept that? Because, and especially in the spiritual conversation, it’s all about love and light. Well, that’s only half the equation. Literally half of the world at all times is in darkness. So, how do you, how do you manage that? You know, it’s like, you know, again, we can, we can even use somebody like Jesus as an example.

They’re like, Oh man, he was all about love and light. It’s like, well, Uh, have you read all? Yeah, have you really studied that really closely? All the stories, because if you read all the stories, he led people into war. He busted into the bazaar and he’s flippin tables and crackin whips and, right? 

Ronnie Landis: Like, 

Shannon Graham: he had a side to him that was not so nice.

Because it was congruent with the path, right? So there’s a difference between having a dark side that pulls you away from what it is you’re building or creating That’s where it becomes that’s where there is a conflict But to integrate the darkness because when he Remember, it was like you weren’t allowed to do business in the church.

They set up the tables They’re doing business in the church and he comes in he’s basically like this is against What we have agreed to. Flippin tables, he’s crackin whips, he’s like basically setting, you know, that was part of his initiative. That, doing that, was congruent with everything he stood for. So, so the dark side tends to get a bad rap.

Because for the most part, people let it detract from what they’re building or creating. Right. So it gets labeled as like, it’s bad, or it should be removed, or that it should be transmuted, or something like that. It’s like, no, no. It just needs to get integrated so that the light and dark work together.

Right. Yeah, that’s a that’s a huge part of the conversation which is like that self acceptance is like yeah I have a dark side and it’s okay for it to come out Sometimes 

as 

long as it doesn’t detract as long as it obviously doesn’t hurt other people and as long as it doesn’t hurt me Yeah, I can make it work With me, for me, in that way, that’s when it starts to get really cool.

Some of the most successful, badass people I know, myself included, some days, you don’t know what side they’re 

Is this a good guy or a bad guy? You don’t know. You’re not completely sure. You look at the big picture at large and you’re like, okay, seems like, But like sometimes there’s glimpses where you’re like, Oh wait, this dude’s dangerous.

And to kind of like Jordan Peterson’s, you know, perspective, It’s like, yeah, good. Cause you need to be. 

Ronnie Landis: You need to be. At 

Shannon Graham: times. But not in a way that hurts other people. And not in a way that hurts you. Detracts from what you’re creating or building in a way that contributes to it. And so that’s where the alignment is.

Um, yeah, so it’s just one of those things. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, I suppose that’s also part of receiving. It’s all wrapped up in that same theme. Yeah, for sure. Hmm. Wow. Okay. Yeah. We’ve been sitting almost an hour in your Tesla. Yeah. It’s been an amazing, amazing deep dive in the blistering hot. And there’s, there’s so much more, but like this piece around receiving and just, The framework and the journey that you took us on is so powerful and it’s not something that I hear talked about in more of a holistic and multidimensional sense.

Usually just like very, you know, receiving more money or see more love and it’s kind of left at that. Yeah. But, Receiving ourself and then the other things become a natural consequence of us just living that right? That’s right 

Shannon Graham: Yeah, if you want to knock over a thousand dominoes Just focus on the first one.

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm So you say that that’s that’s the number one yeah, yeah 

for 

sure of all the people you’ve coached and every all the amazing entrepreneurs and And leaders and all the people you’ve been around. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Is there, is there any like practical tools or not straight modalities, anything that you could find or that someone could find helpful to actually like act on that, to have an experience for themselves.

I think I really think it 

Shannon Graham: just comes down to, um, Honesty, I know that sounds so simple, but I also like to make people’s progress in expansion easier than not. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Um, life is hard enough as it is. So to simply ask yourself, and it, and it doesn’t mean that it’s easy. That the answers are easy, or that the work is easy, but the questions are easy, which is, what do I want, if I let go of everything that could potentially give me a less than completely honest answer?

If, just for a moment, I’m willing to give myself permission to go there, just what gets illuminated alone in that moment is profound. Mm. And then to be able to take that clarity and follow it, and to open to it, and I would even go as far as to say to be obedient to it. Because if that is desire, if we’re being honest about what we deeply desire, and if desire is expansion seeking to express itself, then following that can only serve us, can only enrich us, can only expand us.

It’s deep in us. And then that leads to whatever good it creates in the world simply as a side effect. Let alone the good that it creates in our own world. 

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful. Yeah. Beautifully put. Well, this has been an honor. A pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks man. Um, where can people find more about you? 

Shannon Graham: Um, Instagram is great.

Yeah. At Ask Shannon Graham. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. And I know you’re starting a space Voyage psychedelic integration. company. That’s a whole podcast in of itself. Um, but as far as just big vision, maybe give everyone just a little, just a little taste of that. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. Um, well I founded Astronaut in 2021 and the idea is to carve out a niche in the space industry that I’m calling space transformation, which is essentially using space for change makers who want to elevate their perspective and then take that elevated perspective and channel it into some type of social good.

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful. 

Shannon Graham: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Thank you so much, Shannon. Yeah. 

Shannon Graham: Thank you for having me.