Ronnie Landis: Greetings everyone. Welcome to another edition of the life mastery podcast. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis. Excited to share another deep dive into the portals of human optimization, transformation, holistic health, and spiritual development. We have an incredible episode for you today. It’s with a dear sister of mine.

Her name is Zahara Zimring and Zahara is a self proclaimed transformational artist, a liberation artist, and really a transformational coach to keep it simple. But she is the full spectrum of a divine feminine being in all of her glory. I really enjoyed this episode immensely. Actually, I’ve been trying to get her on the show for about a year.

As I talk about in the episode. I was on her podcast just about a year ago. Her incredible podcast is called the dojo. One of the interesting things about our friendship over the years is that her and I have a very similar background in martial arts. But not just martial arts as a general topic, but Taekwondo and Olympic Taekwondo, we were both Olympic hopefuls in Taekwondo around the same time period.

We didn’t know each other back then, but when we were introduced to each other by being in the spiritual and transformational community in Los Angeles and Southern California, that was one of our bonding points in one of our conversations. And we just saw eye to eye and we’re just like, I know you, you know me, I get you.

We come from the same background. We have the same athletic and martial arts pedigree. And that is just one of the relating points that we had together. You know, aside from the work that we both do in the world now as transformational facilitators and I got to tell you this episode goes really deep into a lot of very interesting aspects of what I would call human potential.

Zahara has a very powerful story about a back injury and back injury that actually sidelined her from her Olympic pursuits in Taekwondo. And going through different career path that eventually led her to finding, finding her calling as a transformational coach and doing the work that she does now. But this conversation is both very grounded in practical and pragmatic tools and strategies and ideas for how to transform your life and your health and your well being, but it’s also very metaphysical as well, which is, which is the conversation that I love.

If you’ve been listening to my podcast, and following my work for any length of time. I think you know that about me. I love to delve between the very practical scientific aspect of, of holistic health and personal development and transformation. And I also love to go deep into the mystic and metaphysical and psycho spiritual aspects of transformation and holistic health as well.

Because I believe that they’re actually one in the same. The body affects the mind and the mind affects the body. And essentially the mind and the body are actually one in the same. And this conversation really goes there and it’s deeply personal for both of us. She shares her story. I share a little bit about my personal process on a number of different, um, intervals in the conversation, and I know that you are going to enjoy this a lot, especially if you’re going through a death and rebirth process and you’re wanting to know more about what we both dub as the transformational dojo of life.

or the spiritual dojo of life and navigating what feels like a death of the old self and how to navigate the, the rebirth process and how to integrate the new self, new habits, new belief systems, a new identity that is more authentic to who you truly are as a soul in a human body. So I know you’re going to enjoy this conversation just as I enjoyed having it.

And before we dive into the episode with Zahara, I want to mention the sponsors for this podcast, two incredible companies that I have partnered with BioOptimizers and Newtopia. These are sister companies to each other. They’re owned by the same individuals who are close friends of mine for over 10 years, Matt Gallant and Wade Lightheart.

Bio optimizers is a health optimization company that specializes in digestive health, hormone health, blood sugar regulation, brain health. They have incredible proteolytic, um, probiotics enzymes, digestive support, and a great product called sleep breakthrough, which I use every night. And another product called magnesium breakthrough, which is by far the best and most complete magnesium supplement on the market.

All the links for that will be in the show notes and then Newtopia has become my absolute go to for brain and cognitive optimization, brain performance, and neuroprotective supplementation. If you’ve been listening to my podcast recently, you know, by the intro, I’ve been talking a lot about this company, Newtopia.

I really recommend anybody that wants to get more cognitive focus, performance, mental health, mental, emotional stability, mental endurance and just really wants that cognitive performance that really supports you. But it’s not like taking caffeine or a lot of nootropics out there that overstimulate your system are very hard to sleep on.

Um, which is something that I actually found over the years of playing around with brain supplements. And I had to completely get off it when I started doing my dopamine reset programs, because they, they, although they stimulated me, They were unidirectional. They were overstimulating, overbearing, or in some cases, some of them just didn’t have any effect whatsoever.

That is not the case with Newtopia. Newtopia customizes all of their formulations. To your neurochemistry and also your own emotional constitution. So the website for that is new topia. com bio optimizers. com. Don’t worry about that. Just go to the show notes. The links will be in there. And if you want to try out their products, you have a 365 day money back guarantee and you can use my coupon code Life Mastery 10 for a discount on your products.

The coupon code is Life Mastery 10. Again, all the links will be in the show notes below. So enjoy that. Let me know what you think of the products after you’ve used them. And I look forward to your feedback. And without further ado, let’s dive deep with my sister, my friend, my colleague, Zahara Zimring.

Enjoy. Zahra Zimmer Ring. Welcome to the Life Mastery Podcast. 

Zahara Zimring: Thank you so much, Ronnie. It feels so good to be here. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm. Well, it’s a pleasure and honor to have you. We’ve been trying to make this happen for a while now, probably about a year or so, on and off, . 

Zahara Zimring: Wow. Has it been that Long Time flies. It really is true.

The old, the, the older I get, the faster I feel like time goes by. It’s wild. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, no doubt. And that would be an interesting topic to, to spelunk into at some point in this conversation as well. Time dilation, the perceptual acceleration of time, and also the slowing down of time at the same time. There’s, there’s like a lot of dimensions to that one statement that I think would be interesting to delve into with you.

We’ll see where the conversation takes us. But yeah, I know it’s been, it’s been shortly less than a year because I was on your podcast, the dojo podcast. on my birthday, which was May 19th of last year. 

Zahara Zimring: Wow. Wow. And I know so much has been happening since then. I feel like just the entire form of my physical world reality has shifted yet again.

One, one death portal after the next really being initiated in so many ways. Um, it’s just, it’s wild to see the seasons of life, the way the life death life. Cycles really express themselves and to arrive in a place of very little, I can’t say no, but very, very little resistance to life, doing her thing, however, that looks, including the seasons of winter, um, it feels like.

It’s own blessing side effect of going through the washing machine a few times. It’s like, I feel more free now than ever. And that freedom doesn’t come from winter never happening. That freedom doesn’t come from it not being difficult or challenging sometimes the freedom comes from. Yeah. Trusting myself to navigate and stay with myself, no matter what happens, no matter what is happening.

And it’s, that’s the gift I feel of, of consciously and intentionally going through, you know, seasons of great change and big transition. And I’ve been asked to do that more, more frequently in the last few years, then. I have, I think in my entire life, at least more prominently. And, um, you know, having the context of my Dharma as a liberation artist and transformational facilitator is helpful because it brings context and like a deeper, why to.

You know, kind of feeling like life is quite literally seasoning me and initiating me through these significant life changes and transitions, um, to like, that are very potent. The context of feeling so passionate about the work I’m here to do is helpful because it, it’s like, okay, this makes sense. It’s actually.

My ability to move through these seasons of my own life with grace and devotion is actually increasing the integrity of the work that I do. And like what I’m here for, I wouldn’t even say the work that I do. It doesn’t feel like work to me. It just feels like what I’m here for. But if I’m not going through, you know, effectively fires that I’m also supporting others and moving through their own versions of it’s.

Uh, the work becomes actually out of integrity from my perspective, it’s a different kind of school. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. It’s the transformational Institute of life. 

Zahara Zimring: Exactly. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. The multidimensional transformational Institute. I think that’s so beautiful and so timely and so intuitively perfect that you led with that.

And that, that sets up a great intuitive context for our entire conversation. I knew that it would land in the trajectory of our conversation, didn’t know it happened right out the gate, but how beautiful that it did. And that makes sense too, because one of the, one of the resonance points, when I say resonance for people listening, I mean like one of the relational or not relational, one of the re the relating points that me and Zahara, me and Zahara have is our background in martial arts, particularly Taekwondo, and we were both competitive athletes in the same martial arts sport, which is pretty unique in of itself.

So totally. You know, so, you know, we have a pretty, a pretty relatable background in that, in that upbringing. And you have a podcast called the dojo. And I’m in the process of releasing a men’s program called the spiritual dojo for awakened masculinity. I don’t think you knew that because I haven’t promoted it publicly yet.

So this, this context of a dojo is, uh, you know, it’s, it’s very unique and it’s something that you and I share from not just from a concept or a construct, but that’s actually our background being raised in training in a dojo. 

Zahara Zimring: Exactly. 

Ronnie Landis: And so I think that’s an interesting thing to interject into the conversation as we talk about like the multi dimensional institute for life.

Another word you could use is the spiritual dojo of life. 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. Yeah. The dojo is definitely, it’s been pretty supernatural lately. I have got to say 

Ronnie Landis: likewise 

Zahara Zimring: to, to experience the way every phase Of my life has been perfectly designed to lead me into the most leading edge liberated expression of this moment, and it’s almost like a bunch of puzzle pieces like when they’re splayed out all over a table.

When I would look back on my life, I could see like all these different puzzle pieces, but they weren’t like quite clicked together. And in this season, it’s like all of a sudden they just went, like, boom, they all just suddenly clicked together and I could see exactly where every puzzle piece fit and where every puzzle piece had to be cut in exactly the way that it’s cut in order to fit with the next one.

And my experience in the dojo. Was one of it being the place where the relationship with passion was born. So from age eight to 20, the dojo, the Taekwondo dojo, you know, was Training for the Olympics. My, I was number two in the country for my weight division. My, I was training with the majority of the Olympic team members at elite in Houston.

Um, and that was my passion from eight years old. Those that’s prepubescent, you know, that’s like, from the time I was a little kid, the, the dojo was the place I would go to become stronger, to get free that nobody had to tell me to get up at six in the morning and run or train or kick. It was like, Driven by true passion and to have a reference point like that from eight years old that stayed steady until 20 for 12 years of my formative development to feel the sensation of passion like that was such a gift.

And a story that ran parallel to that is that also at eight years old, I was diagnosed with scoliosis and scoliosis is an, um, I had idiopathic scoliosis, which is, and it’s, it’s a genetic, it’s, it’s epigenetic. So it. Either you have the gene for it and it either gets turned on or doesn’t and for me it got turned on and energetically I’ve realized that the root of it for me was being in an environment with, you know, a parent who was in and out of treatment for addiction and very, um, You know, emotionally abusive and unpredictable in behavior that my protection for that as a kid was to be careful to people.

Please to literally bend over backwards to contort myself to try to not. Upset that parent, you know, and that was my way of staying safe, which also turned the gene on, which literally saw my spine start to bend like my lost my backbone, like I, the spine started to curve and I watched my spine turned into an S from age eight to 13.

And during that time, I was prescribed a back brace that I had to wear for 20 hours a day. To try to stop the spine from progressing while you’re growing from age eight to 13 that that’s like you’re like a, a little sprout, you know, you’re going to gain a lot of height during that time. So they, they try to stop the spine from curving and keep it straight by, by, Prescribing these back braces that are like as hard as a wooden floor.

And so for 20 hours a day, I had to wear this brace from age eight to 13, while at the same time, I’m passionate about going to the dojo to train. And the only time I could take the brace off was to shower and go to the dojo. So the dojo became the space where I quite literally got embedded a somatic imprint that went from limitation In the brace to liberation in the dojo limitation in the brace to liberation in the dojo where I could be free and in my fullest expression and embody and move as passion.

And then again, limitation in the brace liberation in the dojo. So that was like the seed for me of what the dojo means. And when I was 13, the brace didn’t work. And I did end up having to have a spinal fusion where they manually straighten the spine and put metal rods and screws in there. And they told me that I would never be able to go back and it was that passion that had me break all of those boundaries that were imposed from the outside and I would go sit until I could run and ran until I could kick and kick till I could, you know, spar full contact again and made it back to full contact again.

Competition that lasted me all the way until I was 20. And then I got sick again and they thought the rods had gotten infected. I had another surgery that, you know, took me out of my second semester at rice. And it was, it was this whole thing again, this Fibonacci loop with the spine and the relationship between limitation and liberation, which the dojo in that martial art.

The martial artist represented liberation for me. And so I’ve evolved it from a martial artist into a liberation artist. And so now the work that I do, I have a whole ecosystem of transformational containers that are under the umbrella of the dojo that starts with an experience called the liberation dojo and goes all the way through an eight month arc of intimate group containers that center on in person immersions.

There’s a deep sisterhood that has developed. There’s a council of women who have graduated the container. It’s really the dojo field is ripe, is a ripe field that really goes beyond me where the most profound transformation and expansion beyond limitation into liberation is happening. And it was all born in the dojo, which is really incredible.

And it is a through line that we share. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Absolutely. I can relate to so much of that. And it’s an incredible story of triumph and overcoming circumstances and setbacks and also the psychosomatic connection between the mind and the body, the epigenetic, the epi emotional, the epi psychological. Factors that come into play now with our more multi dimensional understanding of how the human avatar, the human body can self, not just self regulate, but self heal itself with the inputs that we give it.

That’s something, that’s something I’d love to get your perspective on when it comes to the, let’s say maybe the external inputs. The, the, the thoughts, the words, the influences that we’re putting into our mind, our body, that we’re entertaining and the effect that that might have on our physical, our physical healing.

And I’m asking that from two, I’m asking that for two reasons. I’m asking that because you’ve actually been through it. You’ve actually gone through that healing process. And I know that we didn’t quite talk about the specific details of that other than it did happen. So I’d love to maybe touch a little bit more on that because so much of the foundation of this podcast over the last seven years has been in the holistic health arena.

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: I want to tie that piece in and then also this. This kind of like metaphysical psychosomatic aspect of how, how our, our psychological and physical body, um, is influenced by external inputs. So however that weaves together, I’d love to do that. 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah, yeah, this has been such a potent exploration that has been very much alive in my life actually currently, uh, and I think probably the best way to describe my, my learnings is through through through Continuing the story around it and kind of sharing what’s come forward throughout that arc.

So I shared that, you know, when I, when I was 20, I got really sick and they thought that the rods had gotten infected and they had essentially misdiagnosed what was a double kidney infection for an infection in the rods. And the only thing to do when metal is suspected to be infected in the body, no amount of antibiotics will.

Clear an infection from metal. So they have to literally surgically go in and take the metal out So they went in when I was 20 and took the rods out But it turns out that they were not actually infected and since they but since they were in there anyway They went ahead and took the rods out. But what they did was they left the screws and hooks in just in case Just in case.

So what is just in case means on a physical level, like from the medical perspective, it was just in case on a physical level, the spine progresses or weekends as you get older, and we need to put rods in again. Literally, this is so symbolic to hold your backbone up right to hold your backbone straight.

And. At the time, I didn’t have the context or perspective to see the Conditioned patterning that was operative at the root of the epigenetic of the gene activation in the first place. So again, if you rewind the story I told, I shared that 8 years old, the environment that I was in was, you know, one of unpredictability, one of reactivity, one of, you know, having a parent that was in and out of treatment for, uh, addiction.

So it was very, Unstable. And so what I did to keep myself safe was there was a conditioned pattern of bending over backwards, walking on eggshells, contorting myself to fit into the environment so that I could employ my sensitivity to not set off any landmines. That’s literally bending over backwards.

So the spine starts to manifest in this curvature. And at 20. You know, which is this external manifestation that is rare. Most people go through the rest of their lives who have had spinal fusions with the rods and screws in. They don’t suggest or require having a surgery again to have any of the hardware out.

Most people are just go until, until they die with the metal in. So the fact that I had An infection that was this like phantom ghost experience where nobody could figure out what was going on. I was in the hospital for 18 days and it was misdiagnosed that the infection was in the spine that would never have been a voluntary surgery, but yet I find myself On the operating table again, which again is touching my core, core, literally backbone, core wounding to then go in, have the surgery.

They take the rods out and say, well, just in case. You keep people pleasing bending over backwards contorting yourself to keep yourself safe for the rest of your life And we have to put the rods in again. We’ll leave these hooks and screws in as focal points just in case 

Ronnie Landis: You’re not to interrupt but you’re you said the people pleasing that’s your your interjection They didn’t actually say that that you’re not saying the the the root kind of the psycho spiritual root cause of the physical malady 

Zahara Zimring: Exactly.

Exactly. So this was discovered later, like in the more, more recent iteration of who I am now is overlaying that awareness on the me that was 20 and had no context or perspective of that. So I was just trusting the doctors that they needed to leave the hooks and screws in. And that was that. So we, I healed up from the second surgery over a couple months and Life went on and, you know, many, many dark nights of the soul later, which could be a whole nother podcast.

I found myself about, you know, nine and a half years ago, having, you know, resurrected through many an identity death, my own stint with addiction. And inpatient treatment coming out of inpatient treatment into a place of being sober and devoted to my own personal development. And this is about nine and a half years ago and through deploying the passion that I felt for Taekwondo and the dojo toward my own personal growth, I’ve been going through a process over the last nearly a decade of reclaiming my voice.

Having my own back, strengthening my backbone in that way. And in the more recent few years, dismantling patterns of telling myself I could do anything I set my mind to accept saying, which is an interesting kind of addition here, because if you think of the voice and have, you know, not people pleasing or, um, bending over backwards, but like actually holding your shape and speaking your truth.

That is the opposite. Behavior pattern of the ones that were the protection patterns that started the scoliosis in the first place, from my perspective, right? So now, over these last, specifically these last few years, I’ve been in this deep process of reclaiming my voice, reclaiming my backbone. All the way to the edges of demolishing the belief structure that I could do anything except sing.

If you think of your voice, your singing voice, your voice is connected to your what’s right underneath your throat, your spine, like your heart, your solar plexus, your sacral all the way down into the root. So if you’re speaking from your power, you should be able to feel the vibration of your voice. in your bones, like all the way down through your backbone and into your root.

And as I’ve been on this journey of reclaiming my voice, what has happened is more and more frequently, the rock, the screws and the hooks that are in my spine have been getting aggravated. Like to the point where I, I, I need to take a couple days like super easy until they, they relax. And so a few years ago I went to an orthopedic surgeon after an incident where they, they got super aggravated and painful and they did x rays and they told me that the screws and hooks have actually started to dislodge and rotate.

And it’s like, the spine is literally. Rejecting the just in case energy, the more I’ve come into having my own back and using my voice. And literally there’s a phenomenon, you know, there’s a, um, uh, uh, a phenomenon called bone induction, uh, bone conduction, where when you, if you hum or sing, Your, the vibration, the sound wave of your voice will actually vibrate through your bones and, and there, there you can heal yourself at the level of your bones through bone conduction with your own voice.

So since those x rays, the last few years have been the most. Prominent that I’ve been committed to learning to play the guitar. I’m a ceremonialist and singing, singing songs in ceremony and bringing forward my voice more and more and more. And now the frequency of these screws and hooks getting aggravated is happening more and more and more.

And so. What I’ve come to, and this is the leading edge of it, is that It feels like I’m being called to fully reclaim my backbone and fully reclaim my spine, which looks like electing to have a third spinal surgery to have the hooks and screws removed. And this is all a function of your original question, which is reverse engineering, the patterning, the protection patterning that.

I started that I expressed out of innocence out of protection relative to the environment that I found myself in and those protection patterns continue to act themselves out in the form of contorting myself, hiding my truth, not speaking my voice, bending over backwards. They continue to act themselves out.

All the way through most of my twenties until I had to go through, which made, which in that timeline, I was a match for just in case hooks and screws, you know, but the more I reverse engineered those protection patterns and reclaimed my power and had my own back. There’s a physical, like actual physical experience that I’m having of my actual backbone asking me to reclaim, reclaim my full body free of any hardware for the first time since before puberty.

I haven’t felt what my body feels like, like what my electrical system in my backbone feels like without metal hardware hooks and screws in it since I’ve been before puberty. Wow. It’s like the, this, the analogy that a vocal guru that I’ve been working with gave me is like, it’s like a guitar. If you have a string and it’s open and you pluck it, it, the sound wave moves in full resonance through the open string.

But if you put a capo on it. It blunts the sound up there where the capo is, and it changes the sound of the string, sometimes in a way that you want, right? But sometimes in a way that you don’t. And the hooks and screws are like multiple capos along my backbone. And I actually don’t know what the full resonance of my own voice sounds like without.

that interference of the metal. So it’s been an incredible journey and I’m still in the process of it in this reclamation of my voice free of protective patterning and the spine has been my biggest teacher. 

Ronnie Landis: Mhm. Mhm.

Yeah, just taking a moment to pause on that. There, there’s so many things that were coming up for me and a lot of pivot points, I mean, one of the things that you’re describing is something that I describe quite often. Um, usually it’s, it’s from a metaphysical perspective, both the meta, the beyond and the physical perspective of upgrading the operating system of.

The body of the brain, the nervous system, the actual operating system that is record that has recorded all of the belief systems and all of the imprintations and energetics and the personality structures and the subconscious information and and also the chemical and physical information that we that is encoded into what we call the physical body.

There is an operating CPU system that is processing all of that information and is encoding and patterning in it. And those patterns become our behavior. And so, so, you know, most people can, can understand that from a very simple level. And what you’re describing is, is Is very much a psychosomatic metaphysical aspect of the physical body, but there’s actual physical foreign elements that were embedded into your physical structure that that had to be contended with, which is which is.

Something that anybody that’s had different surgeries, like I’ve had, I’ve had knee surgeries. I’ve never had anything foreign or mechanical put into my body. Um, but I’ve, I’ve had surgery, so I understand it at that level. And that’s a whole deep thing that we could get into. I don’t really want to go too much deeper into it.

I’m, I’m really grateful that you went really deep into that to help us really understand not only your journey, but to understand, like, Understand what a lot of people go through, but also the, the, the deeper aspects of like the metaphorical or the, yeah, the metaphorical metaphysical nature of the transformational journey that, that the body goes through and the messages that I guess that’s where I want to go with this is like the, the messages or messengers.

Inside of the, the body that are alerting to you, like you mentioned, like the people pleasing, like who would have come up with that explanation? Like in a, in a quote unquote, purely physical thing with your spine and the rods and the screws, like that’s a very physical, very physical thing. What, who would have come up with the explanation that this had anything to do with like people pleasing or placating or, or giving over your power?

Zahara Zimring: Yeah, you can, I mean, for even to generalize it. You can imagine individuals whose posture and stature and stance are reflective of their belief systems. Right. And so someone who’s You know, hunching their shoulders forward or, you know, always having their hands over their, their, their womb space. Like those are expressions of like not feeling safe or having a closed heart or not being fully open or not standing in your confidence.

And those are that holding certain postures relative to your belief systems. Your, it is impacting the physiology. It is, it is actually being reflected on a physical level. So much of what it is that we believe and how we’ve been conditioned to behave is directly mirrored. With the health of our physical body.

And so, you know, we talk about like medical mediumship, but I feel like everyone has the capacity to become their own medical medium. So like what, what physical, you know, manifestations Have occurred or are occurring in the current reality of an individual, of someone’s life that could potentially be reverse engineered, not so much on the physical level, but actually on the belief, like meta level on the belief level and on the, by repatterning and rewiring belief structures, we actually repattern and rewire the physical structure.

Of the body, which then touches everything. 

Ronnie Landis: This is amazing. So this is, this is a beautiful, beautiful segue. So my question to you, and I think it’s a yes and, I think it’s always a yes and, Is it a behavior change first, or is it a belief system change, or are they really one and the same? You get what I’m saying?

Like, what, what comes first? Do we change the physical pattern or behavior? Do we have to change the, the subconscious story? So then that’s a bit of a, that’s a bit of a rabbit hole. Like how do we actually access the subconscious story or are they actually synonymous? 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. I mean, it’s like, what’s first, the chicken or the egg, you know?

So if I use a simple example, like someone who consistently like has social anxiety and when they enter a room, their shoulders are hunched over and they’re like averting eye contact. Okay. So maybe that person has a belief that it’s not safe to be seen, or I’m not worthy of being seen, or I’m just making up.

I’m just like, kind of, you know, shooting out examples. It could be, you know, extrapolated into your own life or what you’ve seen, but that person. One way physical expression of their protection is to like close their shoulders and like avert eye contact, right? Like I’m not worthy of being seen or it’s not safe to be seen.

We can revert, we can imagine what life experiences could, could condition someone into a belief like that. Right? So on a physical level, they’re, they’re closed. On the level of shoulders and heart and their eye contacts being averted now, would it be more valuable for that person to first look at the belief structure or to shift the physical level?

Like, maybe they’re having back, you know, back pain because they’re hunched over like that, or, you know, there’s different, um, maybe they’re breathing like they have a restlessness. Because their, their, their neck is down and they’re not actually opening to the full bandwidth of their full heart open breath, you know, like there’s, I’m making up ideas of physical manifestation.

So if they work on the belief structure first and start to actually transform the belief and get into the root of what caused. Those belief structures in the first place and do that healing through compassion and love and re pattern that belief. I could imagine that person starting to practice and pair.

Oh, I’m going to practice leaning into the edge of making eye contact more. I’m going to lift up my head. Thanks. I’m going to pull my shoulders back and that might be an edge and it might feel really vulnerable. Like I’m feeling what that might feel like for that person. And I’m doing it myself right now as I speak.

And I’m like, wow, it feels vulnerable to enter a room with my heart, like wide open without protection. And it feels vulnerable to make eye contact. That’s one reality. The other, the chicken or the egg. Okay. The egg. What if they just go right into the physical? So they’re working with a chiropractor and they start to open up their shoulders more and the chiropractor, you know, is telling them they need to kind of have their posture up and they are lifting up their head.

Now they’re entering a room and They, they don’t have on a cognitive or mental level what’s going on, but on a somatic level, their, their protections are being repositioned so that it actually feels equally as vulnerable to enter a room like with the heart open and with the head up. And maybe that triggers some awareness of like, why do I feel so vulnerable walking into a room with my shoulders open?

Well, I don’t wait. Well, I like, I really am starting to notice how hard it is for me to hold eye contact. Like what’s going on there. I think it’s really is a chicken or the egg situation. Like both are valid. Both are important and both are connected. One one doesn’t happen. If it’s true that the physical level Manifestation is deeply connected to, uh, like a, a belief structure, like an emotional energetic mental beliefs or identity structure that’s being transformed, it’s going to rattle it up as you change the physical, the mental energetic emotional is going to get rattled up because it’s going to feel different.

It’s going to trigger the vulnerability. And then the other direction as well. If you go right into the vulnerability first with a transformational facilitator, like myself. Or, or like you, Ronnie, it’s still going to illuminate the physical level protection mechanisms. So it’s, it’s, you’re not going to get out of working on either one from my perspective.

Ronnie Landis: No, absolutely. And that was kind of to the point of the question, right, is to understand, to get like a mental map. One of the things that’s been really supportive for me and is, is a byproduct of my work because I need to create mental maps and cognitive frameworks. 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah, 

Ronnie Landis: because I’m so acutely aware of how many moving pieces there are just in the conceptual realm of personal development and holistic health and healing modalities and transformational techniques and all these things.

There’s so much more information and exposure to options than we have the cognitive bandwidth because we’ve never had as much exposure to information and certainly from the digital. The digital sphere, which our brain is constantly having to increase its capacity, which is a, which is a whole nother aspect of a conversation.

And. I don’t know if we really got into this in the podcast that we did on your show, but this has a lot to do with our dopamine capacity and, and, and like, this also plays into like drugs and are not necessarily drugs particularly, but addictions and. A conversation around neuroplasticity and how the brain is constantly having to adapt at like rapid rates to so much external inputs are so much external stimulation.

So there’s a few different things that I’m throwing out there, but I’m going to I’m going to weave them all together because it’s going to continue to unpack the rest of this conversation, which has been so deeply fascinating, and I’m really grateful that. Your life experience and your articulation of it is creating such an incredible framework in of itself for this.

So, so what I was saying is that for me, it’s so important to have cognitive frameworks to organize the relative pieces of any particular puzzle. Cause that’s what I feel like we’re doing ultimately in our own human experience or the different dimensions of our life. Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial, relational.

A lot of times we, these things kind of get very scattered or they’re not well organized and we need to create mental organization to know where to put our energy at any given time in order to be effective and successful in different dimensions of our life, because they require different aspects of us at any given time.

Zahara Zimring: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So is there somewhere specific with this you want to bind more organization around? Hmm. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, let me just go with this. I’m curious. What, what does that look like for you? In other words, how have you created organization or, or order in the areas of your life as a transformational artist, as a transformational mentor and coach, and also for yourself who you, you have and continue to go through?

Initiations, as you put in the beginning of this conversation, the death and rebirth process, old frameworks kind of go through a disillusion or a dismantling and something new has to be reborn and reorganized that might be an interesting kind of interesting thing. Uh, con, um, context to this, like the, the, so in other words, how have you found, how have you found that to play out in your life as you’re going through a new, new transitions?

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. Yeah. That’s such a good question. I haven’t thought of it in that way, which I think might be part of the special brand of magic that I walk with, which is like deep trust in Life’s greater organization than I could possibly see on a human level. And I’ve learned, and this is not, this is not where I was, you know, so like I was speaking to the value of these seasons of winter where like, you know, the death portals I’ve been through, which have included the absolute.

Destruction of everything that I thought I’ve known like everything in my known reality where I live who I’m around the city that I identify myself as as a a part of the relationship that I the Relationships that I thought would be the in my life for the rest of it, you know All all these layers of just being asked to release again and again and every time Every time it’s been to the degree that I have not resisted You Releasing.

That’s happening. And when releases happen, there’s a release on a physical level of an external reality and our external reality is a reflection of our internal environment of our internal belief systems of our Internal identity structures. So at the same time as my external reality had been dissolved and releasing I also had to dissolve and release internal identity structures of who I thought I was, what I thought I wanted, what I, what I thought I was organizing my sense of self and identity around the man, the, the, the partnership, the home, the community, the physical location, like all of these were like deep personal identity deaths, which mean I means I actually had to release.

My attachment to the focal point, the focal points that I thought my whole life. externally was organized around. And so ironically to, to your question, it’s actually been my learning how to release my sense of control in my sense of organization and surrender that up to a higher organization or a higher organizing principle than my Human identity, any of them, could possibly organize or orchestrate.

And so it’s been the degree that I’ve learned, that the degree that I don’t resist the release that’s happening, is the degree that I can simultaneously receive the new life. That is coming in the new life that’s being organized in front of my very eyes, but to the degree that I am resisting the release, which looks like control, which looks like holding on to what was, which looks like resisting that it’s happening.

That resistance takes up a lot of space in the field, so it actually buffers and blocks the ability to receive and pay attention to the new order. The new life, the new energy that is coming in. So I’ve become pretty masterful at letting, at letting go of my idea of how I think it’s supposed to look and embracing a trust of something higher.

And it, and the only reason I can say that and it not be like frou frou woo woo is because I’ve just had to live it and walk it over these past few years. And before that. I was not able to do what I’m just describing, so I just want to name it is not for me. It didn’t come easy. I was very much in control and needed to know where I live, what it looks like, what was going to happen, even in relationship, like I had a lot of need to know and have security through the known, which is always not the truth of any moment, actually.

And, and I, and I’ve had to learn through releasing everything that I thought that I knew, everything that I thought gave me security that was never actually real in order to find a greater security and a greater peace. Through the unknown, through actually being able to embrace the unknown, which I recognize is allowing me now to create relationship and home and all these things from a new place.

I’m creating from a place of collaboration with the greater organizing principle that is the force of life and really paying attention to what life is bringing in and then being an active participation with that. And so there’s identity structures, there’s, you know, to kind of make it more specific, there’s, you know, how do you know what’s yours to do?

Well, I really believe that life is perfectly designed to like, look at the pattern of your life. Look at the relationships you attract into your field. They are so perfectly designed to touch exactly the places inside where love is needed the most. They’re the aggravations that are creating the pearls inside are so it’s like supernatural how we attract the relationships and situations that are going to just so perfectly and precisely aggravate or touch the parts that need our attention the most and I feel like that’s the organizing principle to pay attention to is what is already happening that is not yours to to control or make sense of, but it makes sense because you know it.

If you’re listening to this podcast, I imagine you’re interested in personal development. You’ve probably been in the work from for at least a minute. And so your ability to track and trust the way life is touching. You, in the most designed ways to bring forward more liberation and more love, that’s the organization that’s happening in the moment.

And then your work is to not resist it, but to receive it and then lean in. Ask why is this happening for me? And if there’s an identity release that’s happening or these belief, belief structures are being revealed that may be expiring that those there might be belief systems that are being revealed through the catalysts in your life, the way life is supposed to be.

Touching certain parts that are, that are starting to expire. And that expiration will start to reveal where you’re in protection. Like if a belief that you’re not worthy of being seen is being triggered by all these situations where you’re being asked to be seen, the way you’re going to see that is by seeing the way you protect yourself.

Right? Like, how do you protect yourself from being seen? Where are you being aggravated? Well, I keep protecting, I keep being asked to allow myself to be seen or go into deeper vulnerability or intimacy. And what I do to protect myself is this. Well, that’s a signal. That’s the organizing principle of life.

Helping you to see, Oh, I’m protecting myself from being seen in this way. This is the way I have an identity. really buffers me from having to feel the feeling of the vulnerability of being seen. And then it’s like, well, what are you afraid to feel? If you are seen what, what’s that, that identity protecting you from all fear is a fear of feeling something.

So then it’s a game of Increasing our capacity and willingness to feel a certain feeling that we might have been afraid to feel like if I’m seen well I might, what are you afraid of I might get rejected, or I might be misunderstood or misperceived, you know there’s a million things we could say in there, and maybe at a younger age you didn’t have the tools or the awareness or the capacity to process that experience of being rejected or misperceived.

So, or abandoned, right? So, we just protect ourselves from ever risking feeling that again. And at a certain point, the greater intelligence of life is going to reveal that that protection mechanism has expired. Yeah, the next level of evolution is going to be to permeate the feeling of possibility of being rejected or being abandoned or being misperceived.

And all the liberation is there because you become the you then who’s willing to be seen even if you get rejected, even if you get abandoned, even if you get misperceived, which doesn’t guarantee you will feel any of those things, but it just means you’re willing to, which is also where your freedom is.

And that to me is. It feels a little like a tangent, but I actually feel like this is the way I orient to how do I organize myself around my expansion? How do I organize myself around these big growth spurts it in transformate life transformations? It’s by literally trusting the perfection in life’s design and not resisting where I’m being invited to grow.

Ronnie Landis: Those really, really beautifully said articulated so masterfully my question to you in relation to all that. I fully agree with all of that. And I’m wondering when the expiration date of a belief system comes up, right? And in my own experience, I can tell like the quote unquote expiration date for me, I guess the way that I interpret it in the way that I want to ask the question is, how do you know, or I should say, let me say it this way, you know, when you start to feel like you’ve overcome something and you have a really successful week of maybe it’s an addiction, it’s an old habit, it’s an old belief system, it’s old operating system.

Maybe it’s some sort of attachment. Type of dynamic. If you’re like an, you have anxiousness or anxiety and you’ve been really working on and you, you find yourself in a week where you just feel like you’ve successfully overcome that. And the operating system has reached a new level of stability and integration.

And then let’s say something slides or something opens up, whatever, whatever happens. And then you find A lower level of the same phenomenon start to manifest itself in your experience is my, is that an example of an old belief system on its way out? 

Zahara Zimring: Uh huh. I, I think so. I think also built into this is it’s never black and white.

Ronnie Landis: And it’s never linear either, right? 

Zahara Zimring: Say it again. 

Ronnie Landis: Never linear either. Right? 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like we are human. We are organic. We, we are not black or white. We are not, that’s, that is a high performer archetype that, you know, it’s like, wow. Knowing that even, you know, chipping away at these patterns through being willing and that those old neural networks that were deeply grooved through all the years of operating in that particular protection loop are still there.

They don’t just go away, but by. Stepping into the new door, which is a lot of the work that I do. I, I really, as a liberation artist, I, I love using linguistics and, and, and ceremony to support the unlocking of new doors. And we start to see that there’s another way that isn’t through the doorway that we’re used to of the safety of the protection.

That one actually starts to get stagnant. It starts to be a little more uncomfortable. To be in the protection pattern and abandon ourselves, even subtly from fear, then it is enlivening and exciting and expansive, but also uncomfortable and scary to risk trying something new. And in doing that, we have to feel the feeling of our nervous systems getting activated of that protection pattern, kind of trying to fight its way up again.

And we, we, the part that is leaning into liberation just becomes a little bigger. Then the part that wants to go into protection. And as soon as the part of awareness and liberation can get a little bit bigger than the part that wants to go into protection, it doesn’t mean that that part’s gone. It just means you’re able to hold it.

You’re able to hold that part and then the more you keep stepping through the new door, the new way, the speaking your truth, even when it feels scary, the having your own back, even if it upsets someone else, the, you know, again and again and again, you’re going to get new corrective experiences because the way that you’re relating to yourself on the inside is, is new.

It’s relating to yourself on the inside with. Standing for your truth with compassion and that will be reflected externally and part of compassion, compassion is not is, is, is essential in this, in this journey of transformation from my perspective, like we are not aiming for perfection. We’re just aiming for the realization of a new door.

And walking through it more often than we walk through the other one. And the more often we walk through the new door, the more deeply embedded that pattern will be, and the more you’ll start to have the new identity as the old one goes through the death. And sometimes it’ll like, Come up like a zombie.

And you’re like, damn, I thought that was, 

Ronnie Landis: yeah, that’s right. 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. I thought that was gone, but it’s like, wow, maybe the stakes got a little higher and maybe the trigger, the catalyst got a little stronger and it’s like, wow, now I’m on a. I’m not just speaking at a dinner with five of my best friends, I’m at a conference with 500 people in the audience, and the part of me that’s afraid to be seen has come up again.

Oh my god, there my shoulders are hunching and like, but the part that has been walking through the new door to even arrive in a reality where you’re speaking on a stage in front of 500 people can hold that part. With a lot of compassion and a lot of love and say, Hey, baby, I hear you. It makes sense that this feels scary.

It makes sense. You want to kind of hide, but we’re going to pull our shoulders back and we’re going to step forward. And if you do go into fear or closure or your nervous system gets the best of you in a moment. I’m I love you. And I’m not going anywhere. So this fear of rejection that birthed the pattern of protecting ourselves from being seen in the first place is not iterating itself on the inside.

We’re not rejecting ourselves on the inside. We’re actually saying, cause part of the pattern is, Oh, well, if I mess it up or if I don’t get it, right, my fear is everyone else will reject me. But we’re actually rejecting. We’re afraid that we’re going to reject ourselves. We’re afraid of how we’re going to treat ourselves on the inside if we mess it up.

So often we’re, we’re treating ourselves how we’re afraid others might treat us, but by saying, Hey, even if this pattern comes up, even if this, this fear comes up and on the internal dialogue level, that’s where the empowerment is. I won’t leave you. We’re about to walk out on this stage. And even if you forget the words entirely, I got you.

I got your back. I’m not going anywhere. I know the innocence of your heart. I’m here to stand with you no matter what, and I give you permission to mess it up. Whatever you need to do between you and you, which grows over time, you’re not going to go from speaking, you know, saying that, that, saying that to yourself at a dinner with five of your closest friends.

Like, even if you forget the story, I know I’m not going anywhere. That’s where you practice. So as the stakes get bigger, the muscle of you believing yourself, like you believing you that you’re not going anywhere is also going to get bigger. So by the time you’re on the stage in front of 500 people, you’ve already worked that muscle through that whole arc.

To actually believe yourself when you’re like, yo, this is scary. It makes sense that this old protection is coming up and I got to tell you, girl, I’m not going anywhere. And that part is going to believe you because you’ve built that relationship and strengthen that muscle over time, which is the work.

It’s not about perfection. It’s about progress, which is kind of like, you know, addiction language. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, it’s, it’s transformational language and it’s an addiction is so part and parcel to that because in our society, we live in a, we live in a society that is predicated, manufactured, and it has such a directive of creating addicts.

You might call them consumers, whatever language you want to use. We all come from this, this type of, This type of manufactured kind of artificial culture. And yeah, there, there’s a piece that I wanted the last piece that I want to. Yeah. So anyways, the transformational process of going into deeper authenticity, becoming more and more and more of who you are, unwinding the layers of all that either was you or no longer you, or maybe never really was you, but was the compensation identity strategy that we adopted.

Was the best solution that we had to medicate that which we didn’t know was living inside of us. Let’s go with that. And so with that said, I want to, I want to, I want to bring it back in full circle because this is something I want to dive into with you. But I didn’t, I didn’t, we didn’t end up going here yet, which is this thing around death and rebirth.

You know about this. I know about this, uh, very deeply. And I’m also coming through what feels like the completion of a really deep and arduous and enduring, um, death and rebirth cycle. And again, it’s not linear, but there are certain chapters in, in phases in one’s journey that you start to track and kind of the, the.

The, the themes, if you will, the meta themes within each one of these journeys and, um, I’m, I’m coming through a really, really big chasm in my process. So I, I just want to, I just want to hear from you to talk about like the death and rebirth process, because we, we hear this a lot, especially in the, the, the language in our, our kind of communities nowadays, but when you’re going through it.

It’s it’s not easy to tell what’s what or where you’re at in that particular process or when you’re going to come out at the other end it almost seems like a little bit of an abstract or or crapshoot it’s not very clear it’s a deep unknown and yes there is a deep faith walk involved but I also feel like there is a there is um Almost like a scientific or almost like a sequence of events that do take place.

And I’m curious what, with everything that we’ve talked about, like, what would you have to say for our listeners about the death and rebirth process? 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah, well, as a true scorpion woman, I feel like that’s, you know, been a, a, a huge part of my, my walk, and it’s, it really is. I feel like I’ve spoken to it quite a bit in this episode in terms of the embrace of change and the embrace of life’s seasons, and knowing that nothing in everything in nature requires a life, death, life cycle in order to renew itself.

There’s, there are cycles of renewal, you know, that are essential to go from winter to spring, to summer, to fall, to winter, to spring, to summer, to fall. And I found that, you know, my life, the vibrancy of my life and the aliveness of my life. Is in direct proportion to my willingness to surrender into the seasons where of release the seasons of death where composting happens, where renewal happens, and one of my favorite quotes is on the other side of death is always the truth.

And so when we go through, you know, these seasons where life is asking us, sometimes asking nicely and sometimes just like a full command where, where, you know, those resistances come and we’re like, please, anything but this, and it could be quite literal going through the physical death of loved ones. It could be quite literally, you know, going through, um, you know, the, uh, a physical level change, like people going through accidents and God forbid, you know, but, but I say God forbid, because I’m like, wow, that’s a death that I would resist is, you know, going through and having a physical injury, like individuals losing limbs or, or unable to walk for the rest of their life, or, you know, these, these things that are like.

Life altering on a physical level, which are also releasing of, you know, certain identities of everything that you thought was, and then there’s identity deaths, which is a lot of what we’ve been talking about, where we have these ideas of who we are and how we operate and we operate in these ways that keep we think keeps us safe.

And then we go through these catalysts and triggers of these micro deaths, deaths of who we thought we were and, you know, where we live going through a divorce is a death going through a breakup is a death. There’s so many ways that we will be asked to shed and resurrect and rebirth ourselves in order to rebirth renewed.

In this lifetime in order to stay vital and sane and true. And, you know, so there’s, there’s a potency in it and all of what I’m saying, it’s like easy to say right now, but listen, the renewal process doesn’t mean that it’s always comfortable. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t come with the deepest grief.

It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t come with the deepest sadness. But how do we go through the deepest grief? Like I’ve in the last three years, I’ve gone through, I was in a four year relationship there’s on the dojo podcast. You guys can listen. There’s a many episodes where I’m sharing about my breakup with my ex partner, Oren, and then my partner.

After that, I had two long term relationships with men. I thought I’d spend the rest of my life with and going through those heartbreaks. And breakups were devastating, like, on my knees, deep, deep devastation of everything that I thought was. And those also yielded the deepest, most fruitful relationship with myself and with life beyond romantic partnership, but with the force of life.

The reason I can speak the way I have on this podcast is in direct relationship. To the death process that I went through in the release of both of those relationships. It’s in direct relationship to the integrity of. Leaving the, the home, the man, the life, the city, the everything that I thought was, and then seeing life show up, trusting the intelligence that they’re actually, oh my God, is a greater intelligence, but I could never actually feel that and experience it.

Experience that on a somatic level. If I didn’t firsthand go through the releases that I did to create the space of such deep surrender, where I literally was no longer in any level of control or grasp for life to reveal the next stepping stone for life, to reveal the next new relationship, the next new level of facilitation and, and, and clientele and expansion of the dojo field.

And all that’s happened. Is because my capacity has expanded relative To the actual experience of going through those releases and the decision that I’ve made to elect to have a third Spinal surgery is is a decision that I’ve only come to like Very this is the first time I’ve shared about it publicly And I’ve only come to it.

It’s taken years for me to get there. And I wasn’t ready to make that decision until I went through the deep release processes that I have over the last few years in order to develop a relationship with the greater intelligence of life so that I could choose into something like that, which is facing off with some of my greatest fears, and it feels extraordinarily vulnerable, and it is my prayer, my relationship with life, that there’s something bigger than me, and if all goes well, and it happens fluidly to allow it This decision to actualize itself.

And I, and I go through with it. I have a trust in, in life that life will show up for me that I can surrender into something bigger that I didn’t have that relationship with in the first two surgeries where I didn’t choose those, they happened, they had to happen, they happened. It felt like more to me, even though ultimately it was for me, but at the time I didn’t have that perspective.

So now it’s, it’s the earned perspective that comes through the death portals of your life that yields the greatest empowerment. And now I get to choose. I’m willing to choose something that feels really scary. It’s its own death portal of like, The death of the version of me who I’ve always known myself as that had some sort of external infrastructure of support of hardware of support in my backbone, literally, since I’ve been 13 years old and I’m choosing that’s how I’ve known myself my entire life.

So there’s a death. I’m choosing a death there to resurrect into the version of myself that I don’t know yet. I don’t know the me that, that is choosing to sit, to declare I have my own back and I no longer require just in case. Energy to support my backbone, damn, like that is a declaration and it is scary and I’m still integrating it and I’m still in the early stages of, you know, making the appointments with the doctors and I’ve only made one call.

I’m, I’m waiting to get a call back from UCLA orthopedic surgery right now to, to make the first appointment to even understand what. You know the timeline on that even is but the fact that i’ve made the decision inside of myself Is monumental and it is directly related to the the death processes that i’ve been through.

I think our greatest empowerment Does not come from life always being perfect and going as we think it’s supposed to go. It’s great when it does But the greatest empowerment comes from knowing that we have our own backs Yes. Even when it’s hard, even when it doesn’t go the way that we prefer and, and knowing that we aren’t victims, that when it doesn’t go the way we prefer, that we have a greater context to recognize that there’s something bigger going on here that I can’t yet see, that I believe in trust, that life is benevolent and that what is happening right now, even though my human doesn’t prefer it, my human does not prefer.

To have a third spinal surgery. Are you kidding me? Like that is the last thing, last, last thing that my human prefers, but to know that there’s a greater intelligence going on here and that there’s a reason those screws and hooks keep getting aggravated more and more and more. And I’m like, okay, I’m listening.

You know, there’s a, even when it’s what we don’t prefer to have the context that is earned through death and resurrection, that there’s something bigger going on here that I can’t see yet. And it’s going to yield something bigger and better and more free and more true and more aligned and to be able to trust that enough.

To say yes to the truth, no matter what it is in any moment. That is liberation. That is freedom. And that is what I stand for.

Ronnie Landis: Oh, oh,

Zahara Zimring: yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for being such a beautiful spokesperson for all of us in this moment in this holy now. And. Everyone that’s on the transformational journey and you wouldn’t be if you you wouldn’t be listening to this if you would not be and you certainly wouldn’t make it all the way through to this moment.

So I commend all of us for going on this journey and Zahara it’s been an absolute pleasure a privilege and honor to have you on the show to be in this deep dive with you to be. Um, to be friends with you and colleagues and supportive pillars in the holistic transformational world and to be on the advent of the brand new generational movement that we are both on and many of our friends and contemporaries.

are on and uh, it’s a brand new, it’s a brand new dimension to the whole entire field that is being brought forth that you’re bringing forth in this, this message, this podcast, this brand new edition of your work, what is emerging in this rebirth process. So thank you for being such a shining example in a role model, not just for women, but for all of us.

Um, on this journey. I just really commend you and grateful to be your brother. 

Zahara Zimring: Thank you, Ronnie. I, I just feel so much gratitude to share this space with you and to be seen so, so deeply and thoroughly by a man that I respect so much. So thank you for having me and thank you all for listening and receiving this deep and vulnerable content.

So, so, so truly. So thank you. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Now. If people want to work with you, how do they do that? How do they reach out to you? How do they, how do they enroll into your, your programs? How do people get ahold of you? 

Zahara Zimring: Yeah. So you can find me, um, on my website is Zahara Zimring Z A H. A R A Z I M R I N G and it’s the same on Instagram at Zahara Zimring and I am enrolling, I’m calling in the women for the next round of the Dojo Immerse, which is a three month higher self embodiment initiation.

And it is the entry point into the deeper, Sisterhood and entrainment represented by the dojo fields. So if you feel the call to go deeper with me, that is a great place to start and you’ll find ways to connect with me through both Instagram and my website. Um, I’m also offering the live liberation dojo at my cilium festival, June 22nd to the 25th.

And so that’s another way for men and women both, uh, to experience the work that I do. 

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful, beautiful. We’ll have your links in the show notes, um, in the podcast below. If you guys just tune in to either Spotify or iTunes, you’ll be able to see that. And Zahara again, it’s been honor, privilege, and a pleasure.

And thank you so much for being here with all of us. 

Zahara Zimring: Thank you, Ronnie.