Ronnie Landis: Greetings and welcome to another edition of the life mastery podcast. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis. In today’s episode, we have a special guest. He’s a dear brother of mine. His name is Josh Trent and Josh is the host of the popular podcast, wellness plus wisdom. It used to be the wellness force podcast.

It’s one of the top podcasts in the holistic health and wellness space. And this was a really, really unique interview a, because this is the fourth time that I’ve had Josh Trent on the show over the years. We used to be roommates back in Encinitas, San Diego in 2006, and we did a podcast. I was on his show.

He was on mine. I’ve been on his show three times, and this podcast was recorded in his recording studio. And we did about four hours of solid podcasting. We did two hours on his podcast, and then we switched it up. And then He was on my show and we did a 90 minute deep dive and this episode is full spectrum.

We go into virtually everything when it comes to holistic health, wellness, mental and spiritual health, relationship intelligence, um, emotional epigenetics. He took me and himself and our entire audience through an emotional intelligence inventory process. Which was really powerful. And you are going to get so much out of this episode.

I don’t even really want to describe it anymore, but it is a deep dive. I’d recommend putting on your headphones, going for a long walk or sitting back with your favorite beverage and just relaxing in letting this conversation really impact you. And I know that it is in probably a really deep way.

You’re probably going to have to listen to certain segments of this over and rinse and repeat, and then apply what you hear because it’s a profound conversation that we have. And I’m going to leave it at that. I’m going to let you get deep into this. Enjoy this conversation between me and one of my closest brothers, Josh Trent.

And before we go into the episode, I want to make mention of one of the sponsors for this podcast. It’s a company called Newtopia. If you’ve listened to the last couple episodes, you’ve undoubtedly heard me talk about this company. Newtopia is a brain health and cognitive performance supplement company that specializes in custom nootropics.

Nootropics, again, are brain supplements, cognitive support and performance enhancing supplements. I’ve been using the New Topia products for just shy of three months. And I am absolutely in love with these products. Almost every single one of their products I have been using on the regular. And what’s really interesting about them is that not only do they provide a cognitive uplift, a mood uplift, they’re really great for mood and neurotransmitter regulation.

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To upgrade the hardware and software of your operating system. Again, the company is Newtopia. That’s N O O T O P I A dot com. The links are going to be in the show notes before, uh, below. And if you use the code LIFEMASTERY10, you’re going to get a discount on the products. And that’s it. I want to mention them and make note of that.

The links are in the show notes and without further ado, let’s jump into the portal with my dear brother, Josh Trent. Josh Trent, welcome to the show. 

Josh Trent: Ronnie, I feel like I know you on such a deep level. What a pleasure. What a pleasure, man. 

Ronnie Landis: The feeling is very mutual. So we just did an amazing podcast for your show, the wellness and wisdom podcast.

Very grateful and honored to be a guest on your show for the third time. I think this is your fourth appearance on my show. I think so. Wow. We go back a ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As you said, almost like 10 years. Um, Man, so much to be said. Um, I’m just calibrating to this moment, just pivoting from, from, uh, guest to host to host to guest and yeah, just, um, it’s been an amazing honor to be on this wellness journey with you, um, on a personal level, like in our own wellness and health quest, but then also being podcasters and teachers and coaches and influencers and leaders in the space and.

There’s so much to be said about all that, but what I will say is that, uh, you’re one of the best in the game. Like I know that personally and also professionally, and we know so many of the people that we probably feel are like some of the best at their, at their game. And uh, I hold you in very high regard.

So it’s an honor to be here with you. And I know we’re going to go really deep, 

Josh Trent: man. Thanks Ronnie. Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s been a time machine kind of a day together. So I’m, uh, I’m, I’m blessed and I’m also honored. I think the human experience is an honorable experience and the fact that we get to be friends and we get to know each other in this lifetime, Oh, what a gift.

And I’m not just saying that for the sake of saying that it really feels like a true gift to have. Friends that you’ve known for more than five years. I don’t know if you can relate to this, but it feels almost like a luxury sometimes to have friends that are in your life for more than just one Saturn return.

It’s super wild. My friends groups have shifted so much. And you know, when I look back, um, you’re one of the few that has stuck with me for more than one return of Saturn. So, so yeah, thanks man. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, I appreciate that. There’s a lot of people that I’ve known for a long time. And I’m grateful for that. And there’s also been a lot of like entries and exits and popping into different times, but you’re one of the people that’s been very consistent.

You’ve been very like neuromyelinated in my human experience, very consistently, and, um, I appreciate that. So. Yeah, like I’m just kind of feeling into where do we want to spelunk into first? We just got done talking about addiction for two hours and there was so much that came up in it and so many mutual Mutually vested interests that we have we talked about pornography.

We weren’t really deep into that Um, that’s something I do want to talk to you about in this podcast. I think I’d like to open this up by just kind of talking about your perspective on, on addiction. And I do want to get into like breath work and somatic regulation therapies and, and, you know, different things that you particularly work with people on.

I know that you have the breathe program, which is focused on breath work. And that’s, that’s a big part of your message amongst many other things when it comes to health. Yeah. So what is your, what’s your definition of addiction? 

Josh Trent: Yeah. The definition is probably going to be different. I used to think it was more in alignment with, with Gabor Mates, which was the opposite of addiction is connection either to sell for others.

But now, especially after our conversation, if somebody was asking me which you are, I would say that to be addicted to something is to give away your mastery to something or someone else to give away my potential for mastery or my capacity for mastery. To something or someone else. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s so good. 

Josh Trent: Yeah.

I’ve never actually thought or felt or said that before, but after our, our deep dive together, I was really recapitulating that and I was, I was feeling into, okay, well, what, what have I struggled with the most? It was feeling safe and calm and regulated in my body and in my mind. And so in order for me to have mastery over that, I have to be able to deal with the struggle of that and to make meaning of the struggle of that.

Yeah. And so if I outsource or if I give my agency of mastery because of the temporary discomfort that I might feel or the long term discomfort that I might feel, then really in a way, I unconsciously give out my gift of pain, my gift of lesson, my gift of learning to something or someone else. So I’ve never actually thought about it like that before.

But I’m expanded, man. We just spent some time together. So 

Ronnie Landis: I’m glad I asked you that. That’s a, that’s a great definition. I think it’s super accurate. And I would say the same thing if I had thought about that or had it as refined as you just shared it. Um, so with that said, what do you feel is underlining people’s issues with addiction?

Maybe yours or the students or clients that you work with or people that reach out to you. I mean, when I asked that because when I, when I think of addiction, I don’t, I don’t just bottleneck it to like classical addiction, like that, that being like a category in of itself. I think everybody is dealing with some form of addiction.

If you’re playing out a self sabotage pattern or eating unhealthy food or anything, That is not serving you that that is a form of an addiction. We might not colloquially think of it as an addiction. So I just want to preface that to my question. Like what’s underneath all these things? 

Josh Trent: What’s underneath all of those things is some type of vacuum that is created by choice or by chance.

And I think that sometimes in the world, we try to say there’s meaning to everything, but I don’t think that meaning is always apparent during the meaning making process. In other words, if I’m in the gift of the struggle or the gift of the pain, if I’m going through all the craziness of learning the lesson via pain, via suffering, via discomfort, then it’s almost going to be impossible for me to self righteously really, Um, arrogantly say that when I’m in the middle of the suck, when I’m in the middle of the pain for me to say, well, this is the wisdom that I’ve learned.

It’s like, you haven’t learned it yet, 

Ronnie Landis: right? 

Josh Trent: You go through it first. And then, then from that place, after going through, The, the hurt, the suffering, the pain, the discomfort, the compression, the depression, the anxiety, whatever. Then at the end of that, take a breath and take a true emotional inventory of what has transpired for the wisdom to actually be present.

I think too many of us get caught up in, um, finding the meaning as quickly as possible. And it’s like, well, the underlying meaning of all these disconnections, the underlying meaning of all the outsourcing of my, of my power, of my wisdom. Of my capacity for this mastery, you know, we’re, we’re on the life mastery podcast, right?

So I’m like the only thing that I, the only thing that I can recognize about all addictions in myself and in other people and in our society is that we have all unconsciously given away. We’ve gift wrapped our mastery and we’ve handed it to someone else and said, Okay. That’s actually too hard for me.

And so 

rather than doing the work and introspection and looking deep into my own psyche and soul, I’m going to take the easier path. And by the way, who am I to judge? Because I don’t know everyone else’s life story. I just know essentially mine. So it’s, it would be really, um, mean spirited and it would be foolish of me to judge someone else’s life path and their path towards mastery for me to say, Oh, well, this person deserves judgment or wow, they should feel shame because they’re obviously a terrible person because they’re beating their children or they’re You know, unfortunately, sex trafficking, or they’re doing all these terrible things.

What if that’s God experiencing God in all ways? And what if God needs to experience God’s self in that way? It’s such a fucking paradox, and I talk about this all the time. You know, sex trafficking, and harming children, and alcohol, and all of these things. I mean, there’s probably, I don’t know if in your work you’ve ever like, Put a massive spreadsheet out about every addiction that ever exists in the world.

There’s probably tens of thousands or more of ways that people become addicted. And so I think when we, when we dishonor essentially our ancestors, when we take away all the pain and suffering and lessons that they’ve been trying to show us through their blood, sweat, and tears. You know, my grandfather being one of them.

Uh, all of our ancestors being others. I think that not only we disrespect ourselves, but we also disrespect our ancestors and we disrespect God, but we also deserve compassion and a paradox. While we disrespect the very things that have brought us here, which is maybe part of the lesson itself. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, there’s a lot.

There’s a lot in that and that’s a, that’s a big way to open up the conversation. One of the things that I heard in that is that forgiveness is the antidote to our struggle and our suffering and, and really like our addictions. Yeah. Right, that, that’s kind of what I heard in that in the paradox of the human experience and the, the meaning making machine and the The judgment and the persecution, whether it be externalized or it be persecuting ourself, which is often what we do.

And the external kind of projection of that is a reflection of, of how we judge or how we persecute ourself. And so what, what is, so from that perspective, like what is the pathway towards healing and whether that be addiction or that be like a disease or that be some malady or ailment that someone’s experiencing in their life, in any category.

What do you see as being the pathway towards, towards healing? 

Josh Trent: The pathway towards healing is honesty, but honesty is something that’s not always clear. And a lot of times honesty has to be deeply earned. Like there’s certain things that I know that are the truth and that are my honesty. Now that five, seven, 10 years ago, I would have never told you that they were my truth or they were my honesty.

And a lot of what we do as podcasters. It’s so interesting. I, I, I’m just. I’m feeling this pretty strong with you right now. A lot of what we do is we try to make meaning out of the struggle and out of the experience of being a human, because when we make meaning to it, then we can go, and we can have that deep breath of peace.

Well, what if the whole question that you asked me is encapsulated with its own unique solution and that is there actually is no peace. There is no ultimate place to get there where we can finally take a deep breath. It doesn’t fucking exist. It doesn’t. And so I think at the underpinnings of what you asked and really at the, at the, at the bedrock level is that it is truly whatever layer of meaning or whatever layer of definition or whatever consciousness I put onto it.

Because essentially, as you and I laughed about when you came into the studio, this is really a joke. This whole thing is an experiment. It’s a joke. Um, a lot of times I don’t want to hear that because, That would mean that me holding my son wouldn’t be meaningful, and that’s not true. So it can’t be a total joke.

And it also would mean that when I get to share beautiful connection and conversation with a brother, that that’s just a joke, and that doesn’t feel true either. So at the bottom of all of this, there is this Really existential, fundamental, metaphysical question that’s, that’s thirsty to be answered. It’s like, it’s like it has this thirst, like this quench to be answered.

And the question is, what is the purpose? What is the meaning of existence of life itself? That’s at the bottom of all of this, man. That is, I think what drives people to disconnection because they’re afraid of the answer. Yes. And that is what also drives people towards addiction, which is another form of disconnection or outsourcing mastery that, that really, it makes people run from essentially what even could be true.

But they don’t even know it yet. Like, you know, there’s the subjective truth that you and I both have as souls in a meat suit, then there’s the objective truth, which is really like, you have to become a heretic. You have to know God, you have to really be in the presence and be in the communion with God to know what true, true objectivity is, 

Ronnie Landis: right?

Josh Trent: Right? Like something you’d mentioned in our conversation was the space out of neutrality is really either plus or minus What pulls us into addiction of any kind is like being out of a neutral space We’ve all heard Eckhart Tolle talk about like the observer and we’ve watched what the bleep with like the observer effect Where if you look at particles and waves they change just by you looking at them And what really bakes my noodle about all this shit is I’m like, okay It’s If everything is nothing and nothing is everything, and God is nowhere and everywhere at the same time, and we’re in a zero point field and you and I are experiencing ourselves in that zero point field as a unique point of consciousness in an unlimited fractal of universes and experiences, then maybe there is no point to any of this, but maybe I can just be.

Fuckin grateful that I’m here anyways. Maybe I can just be fuckin grateful that I made it. And that I’m here with you right now, and that I get to hold my son, and I get to make love, and I get to eat food. And maybe that’s the whole thing. Maybe that’s the whole thing. And maybe, maybe, you know, Lucifer and maybe all these dark energies and Wetiko in the world, they’re so angry that gratitude is all we get, that they want more than gratitude because they’re not willing, these energies or even the dark matter itself, God knows itself through the devil, through these dark matters, through the darkness so that it can know exactly what love and gratitude feel like.

And maybe that’s playing out in our conversation right now. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Interesting. So we’re, we’re going there. Okay. What? You didn’t think we were going to go there? Well, I was, I didn’t have any expectations or any, any, any, um, any meaning other than I knew this was going to be amazing drop in. So like what comes up for me is actually, as you’re talking about gratitude and the, the absence of intrinsic or, or built in meaning.

Into anything into life and yet there, and yet it’s incredibly meaningful, right? That’s an interesting, that’s an interesting play on words too. Cause the felt experience is incredibly meaningful, but the defined meaning is a different they’re, they’re like, they’re, they’re almost the same word, but it’s a different felt experience.

And what came, came up for me listening to you is in my book that I’m working on the dopamine solution, there is this section on. Anti fragility, that’s one of the themes that I talk about in the book is like dopamine and its relationship to becoming fragile or anti fragile and then this idea of post traumatic growth syndrome.

So there’s post traumatic stress syndrome and then post traumatic stress syndrome, or I mean, uh, growth syndrome. Yeah. And so they’re both, they’re both similar, but they’re completely different outcomes. And I talked about philosophically and scientifically Ultimately, gratitude is the underpinning mechanism that or the substrate that allows for any experience that we go through to elicit a post traumatic growth.

response, the absence of gratitude creates the, the potential for post traumatic stress disorder, meaning that we’re excessively stressed, we’re down on ourself, we’re negative, we’re, we’re, you know, all the things depressed, and then that creates a traumatization. So it’s like, it’s interesting that you’re, you’re harping on gratitude because that’s, I, I found in my research, in my experience, that gratitude is actually.

I guess in this conversation, you could say, I’ll hand it over to you. Maybe gratitude is the, the meaning that we’re seeking. Like, we’re, in other words, we’re seeking, we’re seeking meaning in order to feel grateful. Yeah. Like, we just want to feel grateful, but we don’t, so we’re, we’re, we’re trying to find a reason to feel that way.

Josh Trent: I think the reason that we’re trying to find a reason to feel grateful is because we have become so drunk as a collective on our ego. So much. If the ego didn’t have to be. Ego would never be fucking grateful. Ego would just be like, give me more praise on me. Shine the light here. What about me? Ego would never be grateful.

So that is, I think the, the double edged sword of growth is like, there’s the post traumatic stress. There’s the post traumatic growth. I think you’re on the right track here. I’ve never thought about this and this will be cool to jam on. Like the, if, if stress is essentially chaos seeking order and, and we know that it is not possible in nature for chaos to be in full perpetuity, it’s just not all like in the Dow, the Dow always seeks the low, high pressure, low pressure, sodium, potassium in the body.

Like there’s just certain systems in nature that all look at themselves For synergy and nature creates chaos because that’s how nature grows. And then we do the same thing, but you never seen it. You never see a squirrel looking at a deer and being like, I’m better than you. No, the squirrel is just squirreling and the deer is just dearing.

So I think that’s the cool part about this is like, we can learn so much. If we just look at nature and model nature. And so in nature, maybe this is for all of us here. When have you ever seen a display of a squirrel? of complete and total lack of gratitude from an animal who’s eating their food. Every animal in nature, when they eat, even if it’s a Gila monster where they eat the stuff with like or an alligator or whatever, they’re so into whatever they’re doing because that’s just nature unfolding.

They don’t have the, The prefrontal cortex and they don’t have the egoic structure that we have. It’s really wild. By the way, 

Ronnie Landis: it basically revolves around that. 

Josh Trent: Yeah. It’s like food, sleep, safety, procreation. That’s kind of it. But then we’re way up on Maslow’s triangle where we’re like trying to serve other people and we’re trying to.

You know, be of service to other people, how completely not just disrespectful, there’s a better word than I’m searching for, how terrible and what a loss it would be to humanity that we’re, we’re humans inside of humanity for us to not try to at least do our best to model the gratitude that nature has that we see from nature and nature.

Sure. Nature is also very harsh at times, you know. There are animals that take each other’s lives, there are storms, there are lightning, there’s fire, there’s craziness. But circling back to the very initial question, like, chaos is always seeking order in some way because it cannot exist in perpetuity, it’s not possible.

Right? Just like there could never be total peace forever either. There could never be constant low pressure, there’d be no growth. You have to have high pressure sometimes for for growth to happen. So I think at the core of it, the difference between the, the, the PTSD and the PTS, uh, G, post traumatic stress growth, would be that in the presence of true growth, there’s the, the gratitude for either peace or pain.

Because in the peaceful times, you and I can reflect on how absolutely grateful we are that our life is peaceful. And then in the painful times, once we’re through the pain, not during the pain, because that goes back to what we were talking about earlier, like spiritually bypassing the lesson because I’m, I’m so advent about, I’m so, I’m so like freaking into saying my lesson when I’m in the middle of the pain.

It’s like, that’s not true either. But on the other side of the growth piece, I really feel like there is. Something to be learned because that’s where we earn our stripes. That’s where we earn our character. That’s where we earn who we are as a human being. And it gives us a greater capacity paradoxically for even more peacefulness.

In other words, the bigger spiral that I have, the bigger container that I have, The more pain that I go through, if I’m conscious, if I’m grateful about that pain, um, the more deeper ways that I can feel love and gratitude when things are at peace, 

I 

think it just rounds out a more hollow container and that might be what consciousness is doing.

Ronnie Landis: Mm. I think that’s really well said. There’s a lot of different directions we can go with that. I, I feel like what I want to, I want to ask you as a, as almost like a grounding or anchoring question. And, and I know that this, this will continue this, this, this idea will continue to reverberate. I’m wanting to ask like, what, because your, your brand and your message is about wellness and it’s about wisdom.

And right now we’re getting like the, the encapsulation of wisdom and the quest and the expansion of, of a, of a wisdom based set of questions. And I’d like to like talk about the wellness piece of it. Um, Right. Like, so for you, what are your wellness practices? 

Josh Trent: I like to get really hot and I like to get really cold.

But you know, it’s interesting because we’re here on the mastery podcast, right? And I don’t think that I could be really in the process of mastery of achieving mastery. Unless I was fundamentally honest at the core of it, which was another answer to your question anyways. So the honest question is I like to get hot.

I like to get cold. I like to move my body. I like to sweat. I like to breathe. That’s a huge one, but also over the past year or two, actually two, I’ve, you know, my partner, Carrie Michelle is pregnant. We’re about to have our second child. I’ve been through, it’s funny. We were talking the other day and I’m like, I’ve actually been with you, whether you’ve been Pregnant or a mother for much more time than I’ve been with you when you’re single because we’re only together for like a year Right.

And so what I know about pregnancy and men is that you know, we have different hormonal changes in our body There’s lack of sleep. So in full Honesty around your question is what are my wellness practices? They’re evolving based on the demands that my environment brings to me, right? And, and they’ve always been movement and cold and nutrition and water and heat.

And honestly, just this burning desire to figure out like, what’s the cool next thing that I can do, but I will be honest and say that right now, my body is carrying extra weight and I’m completely in surrender to find the answer as to why that is. And part of me thinks that I can zero it in intuitively on, you know, You know, added stress in the relationship, added stress because with, um, more children comes more financial responsibility, growing a business, all these things.

But at the core of it all, like, this is what was told to me, uh, by a mentor, by a friend, um, Paul Cech. 

And 

he was like, well, you know, what’s your greatest fear? And I was in his house and he touched me on the shoulder and he’s like, well, what, what, what are you most afraid of? Like, what’s this all about for you?

And my answer to him was, well, how do I do it all? How do I do it all? How do I have the thriving business and financial health and physical health and a relationship and family and love? Like, How do I do all of this? I’ve never seen anybody do it, and I’ve never spent enough time around anyone to like really understand how they do it.

And he looked right at me and he said, well, who’s doing it anyway? Mm mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. Who’s doing it anyway. Yeah. And it took me a while to figure out what he meant, but what he meant was God is doing it. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. 

Josh Trent: the God in me, the God outside of me. That’s, that’s what’s doing it all. And so the more I can trust in that, and I really feel like I’m in a time in my life where I’ve been.

Mashing the gas pedal down so hard that I’ve let my physical practice go. And I’ve let some of my other, I guess you could say physical hygiene practices go. I don’t mean like physical hygiene. Like I’m not washing my hair, but you know what I mean? Like I’m not doing my mobility. I’m not doing my stretches.

I haven’t been doing my yoga because I’ve been so hyper focused on providing and providing, but the paradox in that is that yes, I do my sauna. Yes, I do my cold and yes, I do my stretches and I go for walks. But that’s been it for a while because the demands on my life have been so intense and there’s been so much responsibility to fulfill that I’m really coming down to the core question that I think all of us in this mastery conversation or even in the addiction conversation have to face at some point in our lives.

When your environment changes and the environment constitutes you to grow in a certain way or you to look at a dark spot of your psyche that you’re not willing to look at, you will continue to receive pain and discomfort as a recipe for your own growth. 

And 

that’s where I’m at right now. So the discomfort that I feel on a physical level, I’m about to take a two month journey.

I’m about to take a two month journey to a different state. Right, right. And so my focus in that time is to really go in and be present to all the different mental things, because that’s what it is, Ronnie. And I know that’s what you talk about on your show so much is like wellness is a inside job.

Wellness is a mindset. 

Ronnie Landis: Totally. Totally.

Josh Trent: So when you ask me what are my favorite wellness practices or, or what do I do to be, well, all of that starts with what I decide in my mind for it to be well for or why I would do the wellness practice in the first place. So, but let’s say that my environment is in the restructuring process, and I hope that everybody feels this because.

Not the same way when you’re 50, your environment is not in your responsibilities are not going to be the same. They’re going to be fundamentally different. So I have to be able to put my ego aside, sink down and ask my body what it really needs. Maybe it’s about providing in a different way. Maybe it’s about supporting my family in a way where I don’t have to sacrifice so much of my health.

Maybe it’s an honest inventory of like, what is my financial intelligence so I can bring in greater abundance financially so that I don’t have to sacrifice my health as much. All of this is a self reflection, self mastery process where I’m just in a constant re evaluation on a daily basis of, Wow, what is the truth about Ronnie’s question?

What are the wellness practices that I actually am committed to practicing? And I will say that right now I’m committed to the inquiry. As to what honesty wants to come through me that is going to teach me a lesson about why I’m not paying attention to the things that are asking me for my attention.

Ronnie Landis: Take a moment to pause on that. That was such a beautiful answer. Perfect answer and perfect, perfect journey to take us all through because that, that was the appropriate answer. Um, not that I knew it when I asked the question, I was actually like, what are the actual things? And yeah, yeah. But I, I relate and resonate so much to that because, you know, I’ve been into the, the holistic health world for almost 15 years and I’ve been on a, a self optimization journey, much of my life without knowing that that’s what it was as a athlete and a martial artist and someone who is very, Um, psychophysical centric, meaning my body and my mind.

And so I, I like the, the notion that wellness is an attitudinal thing, that it’s an attitude, it’s a mindset. And that’s, that’s so, that’s so true because you don’t do anything unless you have an attitude about it. Unless you think about it, unless you are motivated and you are. You are driven towards something, you’re not actually going to do something.

It doesn’t just randomly happen. You don’t pick up a green juice or take a supplement or take on a certain type of diet or a workout routine or breath work, unless you actually think about it, unless it’s, it’s either part of your mentality or it’s becoming part of your neuroplastic attitude that you’re developing within yourself.

Josh Trent: Dude. Isn’t that wild that our brain is plastic? 

The more I 

hear that, I’m like, how the fuck? That is so wild that our, literally our brain is plastic and we can walk on a path in the forest and the grass will part and eventually there’ll be a trail and it’s the same thing in our brains. That’s so, it’s just so beautiful in a way.

Ronnie Landis: I want to, so I want to talk to you about that because I know that you’ve, you’ve, you’ve You’ve talked a lot about this. You’ve talked to a lot of amazing like neuroscientists and you are really well versed in this yourself. Um, and I want to talk, I want to finish this, this kind of thought and lead into that, cause I’m glad that you opened that up.

There’s seasons and cycles to everything, right? My dietary journey has looked a particular way, but even when I was a vegetarian for 10 years, there was all kinds of different things Um, like subcategories I was exploring with, I did like fruitarianism in the beginning that failed. Then I, I went and ate some eggs and then rebalanced and then, and I was like, okay, I need to actually figure out how to do this.

And then I did like high fat, low fat and, you know, including B products and da, da, da, da, da. Like I did so many different things until I landed on something that actually. Felt sustainable that balanced out. And then eventually at some point that no longer felt like that was going to get me to the next level.

I had a spiritual awakening around it. I had a intuition like, okay, now it’s time to like, start incorporating animal foods. I ran the experiment. Cause that’s, it’s all an experiment. I was like, well, let’s just see what happens. Yeah. 

Josh Trent: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: I did that. Had a complete profound experience in real. I was like, okay, that, that last 10 year journey, that chapter’s complete, but it’s also, I take that with me, but now that, that identity around that has now been released.

Same thing with all my, my, my, I guess the point I’m making is like every single thing that I do in my life, whether it’s my fitness routines, my diet, my health. Stuff, um, protocols, it all, it all seems to be very seasonal and almost is like intuitive at this point. Like, it kind of just, it’s like you said, like my environment, the circumstances in my life, they influence what I do.

There are core things that I don’t negotiate with that are just built in, but like so much of it is very much fluid, kind of like the brain. And it’s, as I’ve become more fluid. Um, I’ve become more fluid with my approach to my life. 

Josh Trent: Yeah. The, I would say the key of fluidity is interesting because, and I’m going to reference nature a lot, cause I love communicating about nature.

It’s such a great teacher, man. So if you look at, look at the construct that we have created about, um, what gravity means, what water means and what earth means, And so if you think about Earth, the mother, even inside of Earth, the mother, there is masculine and feminine properties, right? Hence negative positive poles on lightning or a channel grooved out in a valley for a river to flow through it.

So if the water is feminine and if the channel that’s been cut is masculine, then being in flow and having a fluid circumstance around me that I resist against is my ultimate teacher. Because in nature, all these harmonious masculine and feminine energies, they eventually work it out, right? Even when there’s like a massive flood and a ravine caves in and You know, eventually that chaos becomes order and maybe that’s where I’m at now.

And maybe that’s at the core of your question anyways, is this constant fluidity that we have around our food? Like, dude, you were a vegetarian for like seven, eight years, right? Almost like 10 years. Almost 10 years. And I remember when we did the podcast back on, back in the day, I think the show was called rethinking veganism.

That was the title of the podcast. And, and so if I’m going to, Spend time rethinking, recapitulating, reintegrating my lessons. Because of a environment around me that has changed because that’s the nature of environment is always fucking fluid, right? Even if it’s a glacier or a mountain, like they change a little bit every year, even if it’s a micro amount.

So I think I’m hitting your question, right? The fluidity of our environment, the fluidity of our environment, our environment is always going to dictate the response from the organism. And so when I’m pushing against my environment, like right now, I’ve been pushing the gas pedal really hard. I’ve been taking care of like my family and the sole provider and doing all these things.

I have responded to one part of my environment very maturely, but I’ve neglected another part of my environment very immaturely. Not from a place of judgment, just awareness. 

Ronnie Landis: Just like your personal assessment. 

Josh Trent: Personal assessment. So where is, where is most of my life force energy needed right now? It’s needed to the exact, uh, reintegration of my environment.

And you had mentioned seasons. Like, dude, there’s winter, summer, spring, and fall for a reason. The earth goes through that, too. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s a good point. 

Josh Trent: What if it was always winter? You know how fucking shitty that would be? 

Ronnie Landis: That would be the worst ever. 

Josh Trent: That would be, uh, that would be like Alaska. 

Ronnie Landis: So if I’m, if I’m understanding you correctly, and I, I believe that I am, At least what I’m hearing, if I were to compartmentalize it a little bit, so like self care, for example, like quote unquote self care, and we can maybe define what that actually means.

I think that can be a little bit of a misnomer, like self care or, or the focus on self care versus like other more externalized areas of our life, because life is very dynamic and we don’t get it one way, not in this world, unless, unless you are fully financially free and you don’t have to. But even that’s a season in a cycle in of itself.

That’s never an all the time thing. Cause cause God in life and nature will not allow anything to be one seasonal. Like, it doesn’t matter how much money you have. It doesn’t matter what the circumstances are. Everything will change based on the soul journey. But anyways, that, that aside, I just wanted to, so like, am I hearing you correctly and saying like for you, You’re saying like you, you’ve been very externalized taking care of external matters and your personal focus on self care or like your, your, that, that particular department hasn’t gotten as much focus and that’s, but that’s based on a seasonal awareness.

Josh Trent: Absolutely. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. 

Josh Trent: And I will say this, right? Something that I’ve been reflecting on is this concept of the observer’s kaleidoscope. And it’s really cool because you and I have seen what the bleep, right? With the particle and the wave and all that. And we’ve, we’ve heard from Eckhart Tolle about, you know, what is the definition of the true observer?

So in order to truly observe something, you have to have non partiality. You have to be able to see something for what it is without your objectivity projected onto it. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s the hardest thing we have. It’s the hardest thing for us. 

Josh Trent: I mean, I don’t know any human that does that perfectly. I’ve never met one, but there’s some that are better than others.

Right. So anyways, with, with the kaleidoscope, you remember when you’re a little kid and you would twist a kaleidoscope and you see all the fractals and colors. Well, at some point, if you turned it just right, it would look the best and it would be the most inspiring and it would be the most fun. Do you remember this when you’re a little kid?

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, of course 

Josh Trent: you’d turn the wheel. And so I think when life, when we’re most aligned, it’s when our ego or our mind. Our heart and our soul are, are completely aligned. And, and the only way that we can really see the kaleidoscope to when life makes sense, when the, when the windows and the glass line up is when I’m taking an honest inventory of an event happens and environment changes, whatever it is.

Right. Because an event, you know, and I had to fight this for a long time before I really saw it as. As the truth, an event is neutral when lightning strikes in nature. It’s not because it wanted to teach the grass, a lesson, you know, it’s like lightning just fell. So, so if an event is neutral and I put a meaning on that event and really the way that it responds in my system.

And then the meaning that I put on why I put the meaning on the event. In other words, whatever my nervous system experiences, right. Um, post traumatic growth or post traumatic trauma, post traumatic stress. That is actually going to be the quality of my wellness. That’s going to be the quality of my life.

So if I can line up and I, and I’ll talk about how to do this right now. If I can line up truly without bullshitting yourself, like honestly and integrity, my mind, my ego, my heart, which is where I feel, it’s my navigational post for my emotions, and then my soul, which I think the soul is really just a mirror of God or a mirror of, of the creator.

And the way that we can do this is real simple and, you know, much like in your addiction free lifestyle trainings, I, I actually believe that what I do as a podcaster and what I do as a breathwork facilitator and we’re all my students in the breathe program, I actually think it’s quite simple. And it usually, by the way, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, the universe, God loves to operate in threes, the Fibonacci sequence, um, birth, life, death, Holy Trinity, Holy Trinity, inside, middle, outside.

That’s why I really love this concept of, uh, of the kaleidoscope, the observer’s kaleidoscope, because in order for me to be a true fucking observer, a really non partiality driven observer, I have to be able to know that I’m a human, to know that I’m a soul inhabiting that human body, to have a connection with God, to have true awareness of what my heart is directing me towards, and to have an awareness of my mind.

And here’s how we do it. You get a piece of paper, you write 10 things on the left side of the piece of paper that are causing you the most stress, the most fear, the most pain. And everybody can do this right now. So just get out a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle, and on the left side of the paper, write 10 things that are causing you pain.

Go ahead, pause this podcast and do it right now. Okay, you’re back. Now that you’ve written down those ten things, now on the right side of the paper, write down ten more things that you are really viscerally grateful for. And don’t bullshit yourself, like, are you great, if you’re grateful for your food, then put it, but if you’re just trying to fill in the boxes, don’t do that.

Write down ten things that you are truly in your heart and soul grateful for. And then pause. Okay. You’re back now, circle the one on the left, maybe do 10 box breaths, box breathing is when you inhale through your nose for four, hold for four, exhale through your mouth for four, and then hold for four at the bottom and do that a couple of times.

Circle the one on the left side of the page that’s causing you the most pain out of the 10 things you wrote down What is that one thing? job money Relationship, it’s usually one of those and then on the right circle the one that’s causing you the most joy the most gratitude Maybe it’s your son. Maybe it’s your business.

I don’t know. It could be anything hold those two things right there That was your very first emotional inventory process And you can always do this with anything is just right after that, get curious, get curious about why these things are so meaningful to you, either, either on the compressive side or on the expansive side and ask yourself, like, for example, I would just do this on the, on the left side.

So if my health is causing me the most pain, why is that? And go five why’s deep. This is how you truly connect the heart and connect the, the soul and connect the ego. This is how you connect all three and ask yourself why five times and by the fifth why you’ll understand it. So if you’re down, I can just go through it on my own vulnerable self right now.

I didn’t know we were going to do this, but let’s do it. All right. So my health is causing me the most pain. And my son and my, my family is what I’m doing it all for. That’s what makes me the most grateful. And I mean my entire family, right? So my health is causing me suffering. Why? Okay. Well, my health is causing me suffering because I know that I don’t feel good in my body and I know that I’m not living up to my potential because of that.

Well, why aren’t you living up to your potential because of that? Okay. Well, I have fabricated a story that until I take care of everyone else, I can’t take care of myself. Okay, well, why have you done that, Josh?

On some level, I know that if I take care of everyone else, then I’ll be okay. So I’m essentially, I’ve become codependent to my own life. If everyone else around me is okay, then I’m okay. Well, why is that? Another question we could ask ourselves in this process, of the true observer process, is you could say, Well, where did you first learn that?

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Josh Trent: Where did you learn that that was true? Okay. Well, I’m on, I think I’m on the fourth. Why I’m about to go to the fifth one on the fourth. Why I could ask myself, when did I first learn that? Okay. Well, I definitely saw my own father sacrifice his health for his family. I definitely, on some conscious level, I thought that was true.

And then for my mother, she would do everything for us. And she had manic bipolar. Okay. Well, why did I decide to unconscious now that it’s conscious? Why have I. Why have I decided to unconsciously act out my parents behaviors in my life? What am I getting from that? That could be the final question we ask in this inventory process.

What is the reward? What is the kink? What is the thing that I’m getting? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah 

Josh Trent: from and this is our fifth why deep, right? What am I getting from that? Hmm? I’m getting the reward of complacency because in Complacency, it means that I won’t have to feel the expansion and the pain of my own growth potential You

So yeah, that’s, that’s what the inventory process this, this particular one. Not like this though. I mean, this is actually like live. This is all authentic, like organic. Yeah, we’re fucking, we’re doing this. You’re really good at this. So, so this is it for me. I just haven’t done this for, I actually haven’t done this since my son was born.

Ronnie Landis: Oh wow, so you haven’t, you haven’t done this particular process?

Josh Trent: I haven’t done this exact process in this way, publicly. 

Ronnie Landis: I see.

Josh Trent: I think there’s something where publicly, I fucking can’t lie. Yeah. Like, I can lie to myself in private, but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna lie to other people. 

Ronnie Landis: I hear you on that. 

Josh Trent: So that’s, that’s where I’m at with this.

And so now, I mean, it’s some, it’s real shit, so I’m just gonna pause for a second. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, let’s all take a sacred pause. Um, that was amazing. And I could also feel like the altered state kick in as I’m listening to you. It’s almost like we went into We went into a bit of like a portal of truth that I’m so glad we did.

It almost kind of like, it just kind of happened. I just, I’m listening to you and I’m just like, Oh wow. We’re like in this, it’s like a different frame of reality almost. And, um, which probably means that there’s something really deep in it for me personally and, uh, for anyone listening, I imagine we all, we all have the opportunity to do more inner inventory.

And I think that is the, that is the big work. Like I’m, I’m, I’m recognizing as I hear you, I’m like, okay, this weekend, this is actually what I’m going to be doing. I’m going to be doing more of an inner inventory introspection, giving myself the space to do it. And I think that also is one of the challenges.

When we, when we meet the resistance of life and we meet the momentum of the habits and the patterns that we put into, we’ve put into action, i. e. like what turns into addictions, nothing starts out as an addiction, like smoking tobacco here and there does not indicate that that’s an addiction, things that we associate as addictive substances or habits.

That’s different than it being actual addiction in someone’s life. And so there’s a momentum that is built in a relationship that’s developed and I, I suspect and I, I believe this is true, is that so much of, of what keeps us trapped in these loops is the lack of space that we create for ourself. Um, between stimulus and response in, in 

Josh Trent: wow, I mean, wow, because if it was just like you could plant that in my subconscious and everyone’s subconscious, what you just said, there’d be no need for your work.

If you could just literally take what you said and be like, Hey, work on the space between stimulus and response. Be aware of yourself, your environment and your actions and your feelings in that space. Nobody would need to go to your program. But we’re humans and we have a steep learning curve for some reason because of what I’m gonna share And this is the last part of the process.

Yes. So in that kaleidoscope I had mentioned There’s our soul which I think is connection to God or connection to creator There’s our heart, which essentially is our energetic compass of the energies and motion that we’re feeling. And the feelings we describe to point down to what these emotions are wanting us to do.

And then there’s the ego, which is like protect myself, get what’s mine. Fuck everyone. I’m getting paid. So, so, so, um, and then that’s fine. Like there’s a way to integrate these. And I’m going to share right now. And this is like the, The ultimate process. And I know that for everyone listening, that you have struggled with something because we all have, everybody has struggled with something or maybe, or maybe is right now.

And so after you’ve done the 10 and 10, you’ve circled, you’ve circled, you’ve done the five Y deep. Now here comes the real work because you’ve done, you’ve laid the foundation for exactly this process. And now from that place of awareness, not judgment, Not hating yourself, not castrating yourself, not harming yourself.

Just take a breath

and ask this question. Why is my mind reacting or behaving in this way? What is the wisdom? What is the wisdom of my mind? What is it trying to protect me from? Because it’s really the mind’s job, right? The mind is a great protector and the mind is a great giver and receiver of information. That’s essentially what the mind does.

What is my mind trying to protect me from my mind is trying to protect me from in this situation for me specifically My mind is trying to protect me from being unloved. My mind is trying to protect me from being unloved My mind is telling me I’m ax I’m accessing my subconscious mind. I’m asking my ego.

This is just my ego We haven’t gotten to heart or soul yet. My ego is telling me unless you take care of everyone else Josh Then you won’t be loved you won’t be safe and you could die and you could die unloved. Okay You Thank you, wisdom from the unconscious mind. Now I’m going to go into my heart.

You’re just observing this stuff. This is just an observation process. My heart is telling me, Wow, the only possible way I can know the juiciness and the nourishment of true fucking freedom is if I have an awareness of the false story that my mind is telling me because it just is requesting safety.

That is the whole point of my mind. So heart, can my heart heart, can you have compassion for this mind? Can you have compassion for this mind and the way that it is trying to keep you safe? Yes, I can have compassion. Yes, I can also have compassion for my human experience, where in my human experience, I have to go through this pain and suffering to know that on the other side of that is the very freedom I have been seeking the entire time.

And so can I. Love my mind, because when I love my mind and I send my mind love, it feels safe regardless of the external circumstances. And so my heart says, yes, and then I asked the final question to my soul, soul, why did it have to be this way? God, why does it have to be this way? And God in the soul says, the only way you could learn this lesson and be exalted really on this pillar of wisdom is if I allowed your mind and your heart To be at war with each other and to know what it feels like to embrace and love each other again.

That is the only way that this life perpetuates. That is why life is expansion and contraction. And so now, I mean, this is like in real time. I’m doing this for myself here. Like, okay, mind. Thank you. I love you. And it doesn’t matter that our external circumstances aren’t perfect and actually the people that you’re loving and providing for and caring for, they want you to nourish yourself.

That’s how you feel the most loved. They love you the most when you love yourself. That’s what this is about for you. Heart, thank you. Thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for having the patience and the compassion to talk to this mind, observer, God, soul. Thank you for the ultimate wisdom. Of this entire process.

Thank you for the wisdom that you have granted us here, because without this soul and heart and ego and mind, without these three centers connected, whenever I look through the kaleidoscope, it is always going to be fragmented. It is never going to line up. And I’m never going to feel like my life has any meaning or purpose, but now let this sit and apply some more deep breaths to know that the true wisdom doesn’t come from the mind.

It doesn’t come from the heart. It doesn’t come from the soul. It comes from all three. It comes from all three being in communion and communication to one another. So that one is never at war with another. That is what this process is all about. So like that’s what this is about is the alignment of these three.

And so, wow. I mean, I publicly did that process. . Yeah. You did some real That’s and that’s real. That was, that’s real for. That was real time. So yeah, that’s, that’s the ultimate process of like the true, the emotional inventory, the emotional intelligence process is like 10 and 10 circle, pause, breathe, go five wise deep, be very curious, then look through the kaleidoscope.

But unless you do the foundational work and then after that, by the way, comes to like working with Ronnie. Or working with me or working with somebody that you feel resonant to, right? Because now that you’ve had that, now that I’ve had this new awareness, I’m like, okay, what can I put in my calendar for tomorrow morning for like my Morning routine.

And for my, maybe I’m going to actually train tomorrow morning and then do the sauna, you know, like that feels good to me because I’m like, Oh, I don’t have to be at war. I don’t have to be at fucking war with these parts of myself anymore, 

Ronnie Landis: right? 

Josh Trent: Because my observer taught me how to align them. But unless I had the presence in the foundational groundwork to do that.

Maybe I wouldn’t have had this very publicly confronting process, you know? So I can feel, I can feel my relief right now. I can feel my sadness and I can also feel my joy. I can feel all of it at the same time. 

Ronnie Landis: Misstripping away the judgment. Yeah. And the guilt or the, the resentment of loss of time or whatever the story is, is really just relieving all story whatsoever.

Yeah, I feel that like I also, I also kind of joined you a little bit in my own energetic hygiene process. That was in real time, everyone. Yeah. And that was a, that was a super powerful process. Everyone listening is going to, you, if you really resonate with that, I suggest you go back over it and follow Josh’s guidelines for it’s a very simple process, but I can also see how, how just like earnest one’s authenticity with themself gets to be in.

It’s a continual process. Like you, you’re, you seem to be very primed. Like, I know that you didn’t rehearse this, but your ability to tap into that. Yeah. Has been practiced. So you didn’t, you didn’t, you’re not able to just tap into that. Like this isn’t your first rodeo. 

Josh Trent: Yeah, no, I, so I stopped coaching individual clients a little bit before my son was born.

Okay. And as you know, as a coach yourself, When you stop coaching one on one clients, you lose the ability to reflect on oneself in the way that you’re asking your client to reflect. It gets essentially rusty. So this was really potent for me on your podcast. It’s funny, we’re on a podcast called Life Mastery.

And I, I have to say, like, I’ve, I’ve never, ever, ever done that publicly. So that, like, thank you for the spaciousness to do that. And, and, and honestly, anybody can apply that to anything they’re going through. Like, 

Ronnie Landis: um, 

Josh Trent: so yeah, that, that is inspiring for me. And, you know, there’s also, you know, what else is in my throat and in my soul, my heart is, um, would my family love me?

There’s like, I need to trust them. I need to trust my woman. I need to trust my son. I need to trust. The, the staff that I pay, I need to trust everybody that I hold to let them know, like, I still got you and if I don’t take care of this vessel, this body, 

then I 

can’t support you anymore. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s right. Have you, so have you, have you, I’m just asking personally and also as a, as a reflection to everyone listening, myself included.

So in reference to that, have you communicated that to them? 

Josh Trent: in certain ways to, to, to carry Michelle. I mean, obviously my son is two years old, so he’s not going to get it. He don’t care. Yeah. He’s just like, feed me. Or actually he’s like, let me get the booby. Cause I love the milk. He’s still that, but, um, but yeah, I can do a very, what it comes down always Ronnie, and you know, this man from your work with people and from your work on yourself is.

I can only help someone else on a journey that I’ve been and on the boundaries that I choose to lovingly enforce. And I want to be careful here because a lot of times people say, People can say things like, Oh, it’s just my truth, but really like your truth can be demonstrated or your truth can be laid down or boundaries can lean down, can be laid down in a kind yet affirmative way without being an asshole.

So I want to make sure that I’m creating this one little caveat before we move forward. And that is, Anybody that’s on an emotional intelligence journey and really wanting to be honest with themselves and go within when you speak that truth to others or when you’re in the process of like working with Ronnie or working with myself or working With any coach you get all this awareness you get all these tools Yeah make sure that when you go deploy them in your life that you’re not just radically deploying them and you’re not like Cutting people out of your life and saying, well, you’re no longer good for me.

It’s just my truth. 

Ronnie Landis: You’re not in alignment with me. 

Josh Trent: Yeah, it’s like, come on. That’s just some bullshit. So, so with this tool set that you’ve been given today and also with the boundaries that may come up from the inventory, because a lot of times in the past when I had a client do this, they would say, wow, actually I do need to let go of my best friend from high school.

And they would be honest about that. Like this person’s toxic for me. And I would say, great. Well, what’s the most What’s the most aligned way that you can say goodbye you could say you’re no longer in my life Fuck you. You’re toxic or you could say hey, you know, I was doing some introspection and I was asking my heart I was asking God and I was really, you know making peace with my mind and what came up for me was that you’ve taught me a lot in this friendship and You know, we’ve come this far and just based on where I’m going in life, um, I’d like to separate our friendship and I wish you love, I wish you the best.

And we’re no longer a match for each other like that. I can feel the honesty and the kindness and that, and the courage 

and 

that, and the courage in that it’s actually, it’s actually a 

Ronnie Landis: lot more courage. 

Josh Trent: It’s less courageous to be an asshole than it is to be kind. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s almost not courageous at all. There’s no, yeah, that’s, that’s huge.

And you can also take that into your intimate relationships. Like there’s a. There’s a whole, there’s a whole thing around how to complete a relationship honestly, consciously, and intently. And it’s also, it’s, it’s the harder thing to do. And a lot of times the harder thing to do is the right thing to do.

Josh Trent: I would say most times. 

Ronnie Landis: Most times. And that also goes with, with anything. If patterns that we want to change in our life. I mean, you’re talking about creating boundaries with, With others or with your environment. How about the boundaries we get to create lovingly with ourself? Because it all is a reflection of the relationship we have with ourself.

Josh Trent: Yes. And you know, it’s funny, like, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before. The native Americans describe intimacy and they say into me, you see, and real intimacy is boundaries. Because if I just like, for example, if we did a podcast and I took on your reality as mine, it would be quote intimate. But intimacy without boundaries is actually soul appropriation.

It’s where, it’s where your soul becomes appropriated for me to not actually do the courage of placing boundaries within my own life. And that we have to be careful with human relationships here in the world, because a lot of times we might mesh or, or we might trauma bond with a person. And if they’re not doing any kind of emotional inventory, if I’m not doing my emotional inventory, Fuck, you could go years, you could go years and being like, we have great sex.

And you know, this person’s like, so great to be around, but all of a sudden you might wake up on a Thursday and you might look in the mirror and go, wow, we actually drink a lot. We don’t support each other’s dreams. We’ve constructed this life where it’s all based on this tacit approval. And we’ve never done any inquiry as a couple ever.

And we’ve just been kind of existing here in the world. And then from that awareness, you might go into the EI2 process. You might start to go into the five ways deep. You might start to look at some of your addictions and the addiction free lifestyle programs and looking at how to revamp your serotonin and flip the triangle.

And like, you might go, wow, I actually don’t want to live a life that I’ve been living at all anymore. This is why people have what’s called the Kundalini awakenings or, you know, the midlife crisis and all this stuff. It’s because they’ve been living and operating in a way for so long that That it’s become unconsciously numb, like that Pink Floyd song, you know, like, you know, uncomfortably numb.

They’ve been unconsciously numb for so long that they might wake up on a random day and everything changes. Everything changes right away. You know, we just had the, the equinox, you know, the spring equinox, dude, I didn’t even know I was going to talk about this. This is so bad ass. Am I going to talk? Yeah, I’m going to talk about it.

I’m going to go there. I haven’t spoken to my father in two years, two years since the birth of my son. And the morning of the spring, the first day of spring this year, he texts me out of nowhere and he says, Hey, I think about you every day. Hope you’re well. And I’m like, wow, the crack in the armor is where the light gets in the crack in the armor.

I couldn’t only imagine how challenging that was for him from that generation and that mindset. And, and that stoic kind of stone wall in him, and I waited and I thought about it and it actually brought up a lot for me because I was like, you have not been a part of our lives for two years, we haven’t heard of you, you’ve never met my partner, you’ve never met my son, nor have you made any indications that you’d wanted to do so.

I could have taken that opportunity where he opened the crack in the armor and I could have fucking laid into him, but you know what I chose to do? I took a breath and I said, okay, how can I practice what I preach? 

Ronnie Landis: Hmm. 

Josh Trent: How can I actually practice what I preach for real and not be an asshole right now?

So I responded I said, hey, I think of you at times as well. Life is really full right now We have a second child on the way. Mm hmm. That was a day ago. He hasn’t responded So there’s a couple of things that come up there And thank you for letting me share this because wow, it’s a good memorialization of this, this time of this growth, you know, like, and it goes for all of us that are in this path of mastery.

Like, fuck, if you look for mastery, you better find it in relationships. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s where you’re going to find it for sure. 

Josh Trent: Or, or intimate relationships or familial relationships for sure. Like Ram Dass said, if you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family, you know, so. Anyways, I, I, what comes up for me is, is equal parts sadness and also equal parts compassion.

Because it’s sad that a grandfather wouldn’t want to see his grandson. And it’s sad that a father wouldn’t want to be with his son. But also, can you imagine, and this is for all of us. Can you imagine the amount of pain and suffering and torment that would be going on in a human being for them to not Extend the olive branch of peace to their to their child to their grandchild Like the amount of I mean I can feel it right now Just the the raw sadness and grief that he must be experiencing And the only way that I can have any kind of relationship with him whatsoever is if I drop my hot coal of resentment and anger.

And if I just extend back the olive branch, even if it trembles, even if it feels sad and just say, Hey, I’ll meet you where you are. 

I 

have a certain way of living my life and running my family that may be completely different than yours. I may think that And know that in my heart, connection and love and honesty and realness and vulnerability is the only path for relationships.

You might not think that way. Maybe this is the best he can do, otherwise he wouldn’t be showing up in that way. So, so that’s where we’re at today. You know, and And maybe that’s where the, the healing starts for any relationship is like meeting somebody where they’re at. I’m not saying that we have to forget.

Ronnie Landis: But you don’t need to, you don’t need to belabor them and insult them or, or add fuel to the fire. Like, and that’s, that’s the whole thing with taking self responsibility, right? And a lot of times it looks different than what we think it should look or what our ego thinks it should look like. And healing the generational transgressions or the misunderstandings, the mistakes, the, um, the transference of, of trauma.

Like, that’s the only way we’re actually going to do it. It’s not by, you know, redirecting our own trauma back onto the last generation. And that’s, that’s a, it’s a, it’s a challenging thing. I, I understand that too because I never had my father growing up and, I had a few different situations, like I didn’t see my father for 17 years, met him once when I was 13 and then didn’t see him for like 17 years and then called him on Father’s Day and had a set of experiences, um, three different phone calls, they all lasted about 30 seconds and I called him three different times and he basically hung up, not because we were angry or anything, but because he couldn’t, he couldn’t talk to me.

Like I called him and I kept trying to call and he’d hang up. Then I’d call him again. He’d hang up. I call him again and then gets to get through. And then like, he’d hang up and I talked to my mom, like, what the, what the F is going on? Like, why, why is he doing this? And she just explained to me that, you know, he, he’s probably really scared and he just doesn’t, he lacks courage and he’s not a bad person, but he just, he probably just doesn’t know how to respond to it.

And then that’s when I realized like, yeah, like. Um, sure that was a, that was a major gap in my, my life, but that was also my unique life journey and I’m probably better off for it. And that was the way that I developed and that’s the way God played it out or planned it out. And that’s, that’s what it was.

And so any extra meaning that I put onto it. Would just literally be my meaning I’m putting onto it. It would have no intrinsic meaning or, or I guess extrinsic meaning, or it’d have no, it would have no solace. It wouldn’t do anything. It wouldn’t remedy anything other than me just realizing that it is what it is.

And that, you know, it’s not for me to even judge, like that’s another human being experience. I don’t know what their experience is, but I can, I can sense that there’s some things within that human being that they’re lacking. That I actually possess. And so that’s it. That’s the thing too. Like, I guess that’s kind of the point I’m making is like, I actually possess what that person’s lacking.

So maybe I’m not going to give them a love letter or that wouldn’t be authentic, but I’m certainly going to give grace because I know that that person is suffering. 

Josh Trent: And maybe, well, not maybe, 

I think, 

I think 100 percent of truth around this is that. The reason why most relationships that have been hurt, like one has hurt one another is because they just don’t have the tools or the understanding about how to forgive.

They just, it’s not something like, let’s be honest about this. This was not something that was taught to men that were born in the fifties, sixties, seventies. It just wasn’t. And actually I was born in 1980, so it definitely wasn’t taught to, to boys or girls that were in the eighties either. You know, this whole, um, spirituality movement, It may have started in the early 1900s with, with new thought, you know, and Wallace Waddles and Napoleon Hill, but it’s always been considered fringe.

It wasn’t until now where we have this confluence of real spirituality, commoditized spirituality, fake bullshit spirituality, and then also God’s pure love. And they’re all kind of right here. Like the one is humble. One is boastful. And the other one is pure. It’s like, they’re all just, 

Ronnie Landis: they’re all kind of subdivisions.

Josh Trent: They’re like coming to this nexus, you know, and so I think it’s up to us to just decide like, do we want to be caught in all the bullshit in these relationships or do we just want to be honest about our own vulnerability to people and learn how to navigate with maturity, the pain that we feel and the pain that we can feel that others feel as well.

I think that’s really probably what the whole thing is. I mean, I haven’t done a process on this yet, but I’m sure that’s probably what would come up is like, wow. How much deep compassion, maybe somebody here is with us and like they, this, they, their mother, they haven’t talked to their mother in years.

They haven’t talked to their father in years. They haven’t talked to their brother or sister in years or a friend. You know, how, how could taking an inventory process and how could being humble and extending the, the olive branch out to these relationships, how could you do it without expectation and without seeking revenge, do it when you, when you want relationships to work, can you do it purely from a place of love and wanting true connection, being humble enough to meet somebody where they are and and not having an expectation or the thirst for revenge.

Fuck. That’s a tall order. I mean, that’s, that’s, there’s a lot there, you know, that’s a pretty mature human being. And honestly one has to do a significant amount of work to enable to imbue those qualities in their life to show up in that way. 

Ronnie Landis: And that’s what the world needs. That’s what we need. That’s what the world needs.

That is the source point of all healing. That’s the antidote to suffering, to addiction, because all the external addictions are just coping mechanisms to deal with the internal distress that we feel, which is a by product of all these things that we struggle with. 

Josh Trent: Don’t you think most students that come your way?

They in some way have been psychically wounded or physically wounded, which turns into a psychic wound. And that has been the underlying manifestation of the exterior addiction pretty much the entire time. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s been the case in all of my, my struggles with addiction or relationships or anything outside of me.

that I have a codependent or imbalanced relationship with. 

Josh Trent: So, cause some people like, this is something I’ve been jamming on lately. Cause this is something that I want to talk to you about. So for y’all that know Ronnie’s written eight books about to write his ninth book with his fucking amazing. So I’m writing my first book.

The concept of this first book is called Emotional Epigenetics. You know, what our ancestors are trying to tell us and how the epigenome sits on top of the genome and how it gets turned on and turned off to quote Chris Kresser, you know, um, environment Loads the gun, but behavior pulls the trigger when it comes to, to how our genome is expressed.

And I wonder how you feel about this. Like, maybe we can go into this for a minute. The, the way that people are born with type one diabetes. Mm-Hmm. . And the way that people are born with like certain proclivities towards sickle cell anemia or just all these crazy diseases, kids being born with one foot, like just sometimes people are born a certain way and we have to honor the mystery around that.

Otherwise, it’ll drive us crazy. How could anyone argue that when someone’s born with a physical abnormality or a physical, um, disease or defect that we could not be born with that exact emotional one as well? Because if you’re an egg, if I’m an egg. in our grandmother. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Josh Trent: We, you and I were an egg in our grandmother, just like our mom was.

And, and we are connected to three generations back of pain and trauma and suffering. How could anyone argue that we don’t show up to this lifetime with emotional epigenetic expression that may not be loving to you or to your family. And, and also then combine our emotional epigenetics with our current life.

Yeah. Emotional trauma and experience and you have a fucking Molotov cocktail for Wateco. I mean, you have, you have a lifetime, you have eons worth of fuel substrate for dark matter to feast upon until someone stands up with tears in their eyes and their fist in the air and they say, no fucking more.

Yeah. No fucking more. Does this lineage pass on physical and emotional trauma? No fucking more. Will these people be run by this dark matter and this dark energy no fucking more like it stops with me Not because I’m better not because I’m holier than thou fuck that what I’m saying is like it would be so disrespectful and so unloving to all of our ancestors that have died that brought you and I here if we didn’t stand up with our Fist in the air and say no more.

Yeah, no fucking more. Yeah Not because I’m better, but because, damn it, that is the way that people heal. Is when someone comes along and says, No longer will this continue. 

Ronnie Landis: Agreed. Well said. And I mean, that, that is, that is the whole thing. I mean, that moment in time. Is built on many moments in time that get to that point where we make that decision and the decision has to be made sometimes has to be made many, many, many times.

But what, what comes to me is like, yeah, the epigenetic and emotional epigenetic phenomenon and the transference by generate by generational. So like the grandparents affect the grandchildren more than the direct generation in between. So there’s kind of an interesting dynamic there that. Is important to track.

And so, yeah, I mean, like ultimately you’re, you’re dealing with a lineage of psychoemotional and also physical genetic, like transference. And it, and it also doesn’t have anything to do with any kind of victim or wounding or, or inherent limitation because each person and each soul and each body that everyone’s born into is unique and each person’s destiny is unique.

So a lot of times. The challenges that we inherit are also the access point to our greatest power and potential. It’s just a matter if we are able to unlock those codes or we have the support or we somehow have the, the guidance. I mean, again, it’s like, it’s such a mystery. How that works for each person.

Josh Trent: You know, what’s interesting is I, I get caught up sometimes in like, I don’t know if you’ve seen the ancient civilizations with Graham Hancock on Gaia. Yeah. Have you gone the whole, the whole thing? 

Ronnie Landis: I’ve gotten some of it. Some of it. 

Josh Trent: There’s the, in the initial teachings, there’s the, the oldest, the oldest, um, people that were on the earth and they came from the fertile crescent, you know, Mesopotamia.

And they had these tablets that were decoded and deciphered. And essentially, they told the story about Enlil and Anki. And Anki was the, from a different dimension or a different, I guess you could say, Interdimensional life experience. And they came in and there was a split where Enlil wanted to enslave humanity, and Anki wanted to actually let humanity be free.

And in that, in this, uh, documentary, which was so fascinating, there was some scientific evidence that actually pointed to the, the genome that had been altered at some point based on samples that they took from very ancient skeletons and also just samples that they took from the ground. And they found that through their research there was a split in the genome where there was a scarcity piece that was either added or there was an abundance piece that was taken away.

And that was freaking fascinating when I learned that because there’s a part of me that knows that’s true, right? There’s a part of me that knows that, that if we all come in and in the Logos, it said that we drink from the river of forgetfulness. Well, if we all drink from the river of forgetfulness and we have all drank the water.

Then what happens if we don’t, what happens if we just recognize or wake up to the fact that we are actually not controlled, that we allow ourselves to be controlled, our habits, our food, our environment, our water, our earth. Like we’re, we’re in this, um, I feel like we’re a balloon about to pop, like almost like, I mean, sorry to use this analogy, but like, has anyone ever taken like a really Um, cosmic poop, like you just, you let go or maybe, maybe women would say ayahuasca like, yeah, or like, or like an ayahuasca journey.

So maybe, maybe what we’re approaching right here is just this dramatic psychological spiritual purge where the balloon will pop. And maybe, and maybe we won’t even know that it’s going to pop until it does. Because so many of us have already popped inside of it. 

Like we’ve 

already all woken up so much to the fact that we’re not a slave.

And that when we look at another human being, that there doesn’t have to be fear. And if there is, we can just love each other through that. Like, fuck, there’s so much wisdom there. There’s so much peace there. And I wonder just to cap this last comment, like, I wonder if in that research, and maybe somebody can write to you or, or comment, like, if it’s true that, that dark and light exist and high and low exist and love and fear exist and Anki and, and Leal exist have existed, then who’s doing it anyways, to quote Paul, Right.

And so if we have this big awareness that we’re in a game or we’re in some kind of simulation, that, that nothing is everything and everything is nothing, then why don’t we just love each other? And even when we fuck up, even when we fuck up and we make mistakes and we. We hold grudges and we hurt each other.

It’s like, can we come back to the altar of forgiveness and of connection and of love to one another? And when it’s not reciprocated, can we love ourselves enough to go the other way and still love the other person for the consciousness they’re at? That’s fucking nirvana. That’s what I’m working on. I don’t have mastery over that yet, but that’s what I’m working on, you know, to talk about life mastery.

I think that’s life mastery. 

Ronnie Landis: Mic drop. 

Josh Trent: I don’t have a wired yet. I did not have that wired yet, dude. I But it’s a good path. I think for all of us,

Ronnie Landis: I think it’s perfectly laid out. It’s perfectly placed. And it’s also part of the individual and collective neuroplasticity effect. That’s happening. I think we’re all going through, we’re all going through a reshaping and a rewiring, not just of our paradigmical perspectives and ideologies and ways of being a human being.

And all the different modalities, um, that are involved in that, you know, being in the transformational space, going in like real authentic human transformations that have never really happened in human history up until this point, we’re going through something completely. It’s affecting us psycho, emotionally, physically, spiritually, like on a profound level.

Sometimes that’s maddening to be quite honest because it’s unfamiliar. And then there’s also this sense that like we’re being held a case in point because we’re still here and that we’re still saying like, how many ayahuasca journeys have I sat in? How many? Um, psychedelic journeys have I gone through?

How many different medicine experiences have I, have I had? How many different crackings of my psyche have I experienced where I heard the alarm clock going on saying, wake up, there’s no more time. And yet here we are. Here I am fully sane, fully coherent, more stable than ever. Um. And yet, riding that wave at different intervals of like, stability, instability, the felt experience of it, and still somehow here, fully put together, all things seemingly ordered, and, um, so it’s very clear that there is something, there is, there is an intelligence, and there is a, um, an invisible structure.

That is holding things together as we go through this, uh, cocoon into becoming the butterfly. That’s the only, that’s the best analogy. Like the imaginal cells are, are awakening. That’s the best analogy I have. 

Josh Trent: Dude, tell me about the imaginal cells. Is there some science behind that? Yeah. Imaginal cells are real.

What’s that all about? 

Ronnie Landis: So the imaginal cells are basically like when a caterpillar dissolves in the chrysalis, and it basically dissolves into a complete goop, right? And then what are, what scientists, and Bruce Lipton has talked about this, what is being described as imaginal cells, Is what kicks on in that, in that, that, uh, transmutation substance and, and helps it turn into a butterfly.

So, so yeah, I mean, we actually have imaginal selves. Like in our, in our brain, I don’t know, like, I don’t know the deep nitty gritty of it. I’d have to go back over it, but we apparently have imaginal cells within our brain. 

Josh Trent: Okay, so they’re in the brain, the imaginal cells. 

Ronnie Landis: I think so, like, don’t quote me. I believe so.

Josh Trent: This is, I’m gonna totally lift this up. 

Ronnie Landis: But it makes, I mean, of course, why would it not be? That’s, that’s where everything else is. The, the brain is like the CPU processor. It’s in the plastic. Yeah, right. It’s in the wetware. It’s in the wetware. Yeah. 

Josh Trent: Okay. Cause you know, that definitely, that brings up a lot for me because I’ve ever since I was a little kid, I’ve always wondered why things are the way they are and I always have like gotten a kick out of.

Taking things apart and putting them back together. And also, I’ve always wondered why some people have thriving, rich, wealthy, abundant, amazing lives, and why some people don’t. And I’ve seen it across the gamut. Some people come from absolutely fucking nothing, and they become successful. And then some people come from everything, and they end up Going nowhere.

Yeah. And there’s a quote in the Bible, actually, and I’m not a very religious man, but this is super, super powerful wisdom. And I don’t know the exact, um, passage or the location of it, but it, it’s essentially this word and it says, to those who have everything, more will be taken. And to those who have everything, more will be given.

So it’s really interesting, like, when you have nothing and you have the mindset of nothing and you’re stuck in the vibration of nothing. Did I say that correctly? Yeah. I did? Okay. To those who have nothing, to those who have nothing, to those who have nothing, more will be taken. To those who have everything, more will be given.

Ah, I see, yeah, yeah, okay. Right, so I had to say that correctly that time, so. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Josh Trent: I don’t know, we’re not gonna cut that out, we’re just gonna let this roll. 

Ronnie Landis: No, it’s perfect. 

Josh Trent: But, but that’s, maybe that was my mind trying to trick me. Like, you already have everything, dude. But essentially what the scripture is saying is when you have a mindset and a belief and a faith that because you have nothing, you will continue to have nothing.

Or because you have a mindset and a belief and a faith that because you have everything, you will continue to have everything. That essentially is God’s word, which could possibly be the imaginal cells. Interesting. That could be the manifestation of the belief or the faith that we have. 

Ronnie Landis: That resonates with me.

Interesting. I mean, that ties into neuroplasticity and all the different, like, scientific orientations. You can even look at, like, synaptic pruning as an auto regulation process of Pruning out the old files as an automated process based on what you’re focused on, what your belief systems are, where your energy is going.

And it just, it just automatically deletes anything that’s not relative to that process. 

Josh Trent: Well, may we all have the courage to delete what does not serve. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. So in other words, like this whole thing around addiction, as we’re rounding this out, maybe. Maybe it’s actually just a by product of what you focus on, and you don’t have to hyper focus on the things that you don’t want.

You just need to put more time and energy and, invested in the things that you do want, and that will naturally filter the things you don’t want out. 

Josh Trent: That seems like a beautifully wise way to live. Because, to quote many people who I’ve interviewed, and you too, Anytime I am fighting against something, I am paradoxically fueling the thing I’m fighting against.

So anytime I’m like, I don’t want to be addicted. I don’t want to drink alcohol. I don’t want to watch porn. All, all that’s heard in the cosmos is the thing you don’t want. But if I said to myself, I’m really excited about having a healthy body. I’m really excited about having deep intimacy with a woman or a man.

You see what I mean? Like it’s such a different spell casting with my language. I’m literally. Casting a spell of love in the vibrationally what I want instead of bathing myself in the victim kiddie pool of what I don’t want. It’s so, you ever asked people like, well, tell me like, what’s your vision for this year?

And they, and they’ll go something like this. Well, I don’t want to be overweight anymore and I don’t want to be poor and I don’t want to live in this neighborhood and I don’t want to be with my partner. It’s like, we’ll get you. Get ready for more of the shit that you don’t want because that’s all you’re going to fucking get.

Wow. So, yeah, it’s a great, it’s a great conversation with you as always, dude. 

Ronnie Landis: Likewise, brother. I appreciate it. Um, so tell everyone about any programs you have. Tell me about your breathe program and your podcast, please. 

Josh Trent: I am really excited about this continued conversation about how I can live my life well, and it’s the question that I asked you.

It’s the question that I ask myself all the time. How do I live my life? Well, and really what I believe is that we have to have the wisdom in our changing environment and we have to have the humility, which is wisdom to be able to. nourish this, the, the physical, the mental, the emotional, the spiritual.

And also since we’re here in the world, the, the, the financial self, you know, those five aspects that I teach in the Breathe program and that I put out on all of our content is, is the wellness Pentagon. I think it’s a Pentagon. We live in a house, it’s a Pentagon. And so, Um, come over to joshtrent. com forward slash podcast for more of this.

And also the breathe program is very powerful because it’s just a fundamental system. That’s three weeks long where you can actually get the true practices, posturally, the techniques and understanding that you can integrate breath work into your life. And honestly, we didn’t have time to go into it, but like breath work saved my life.

It wasn’t plant medicine that saved my life. It was actually plant medicine that that brought me to breath work and then and then breath work became a really deep healing catalyst So there’s a lot of programs out there. I’m not a certification for teachers Essentially that the thousand students we have in there It’s all just normal everyday people that want to understand how to live their life Well, and how to use breath as a vehicle and a medium to access that calm centered part of themselves And so we have some changes in the program that we’re gonna be in this year You Um, you know, I have the birth of my second child coming.

So the best place to go would just be go to joshtrent. com forward slash podcast. Um, sign up for the newsletter, subscribe to the podcast and, you know, join the breathe program if you want to get. Taught by me in a three week process that you can actually clear your stress with your breath So those are the best places to go and the breath work program is at breath work dot IO 

Ronnie Landis: Breath work dot IO that’ll be in the show links below.

Hey, Josh Thank you so much. Always a pleasure always an honor and For everyone listening. This was another episode of the life mastery podcast with Josh Trent and we will well, we’ll either see you or we will you Blah, blah, blah. I’m just going to edit that later. Ha ha ha ha. That’s it? That’s it. Okay, I gotta pee.

That’s literally, that moment was like literally the last moment I had it. Okay, okay, here. I gotta pee again.