Ronnie Landis: Greetings and Aloha! Welcome to another episode of the Life Mastery Podcast, where we discuss all things health, wealth, wisdom, and spirituality. We have a really great episode lined up for you today with my friend Will Deroode. We’ve known each other for many years over the internet. And we got to meet in person a handful of months ago, a little bit before we recorded this podcast.

And yes, I know it has been a little while since I’ve uploaded a podcast. My apologies, life has been very, very full, but here we are back at it. And so this is actually a really amazing podcast for many reasons. And on many levels, there is so much talk about trauma, uh, nervous system regulation, um, how to optimize the physical body and especially how to access the autonomic nervous system to release trauma, to release stress, and how to get our head right essentially in a world that just seems to be very backwards, upside down, full of addiction, quite literally social media.

Um, you know, polarization politically, so many things that are vying for our attention and are also subtracting from our quality of life and causing immense amount of stress at the level of our neurological and nervous system capacity. So we get into all that, but will has a very unique approach and a very unique model that he’s created called neural awareness.

Now I’m going to let. him talk more about this in the podcast, obviously, but it’s a very, very unique kind of mental map. And it has a sequence of progressions developmentally that you can kind of see where are you on the nervous system regulation map? Where is your quote unquote neural awareness?

Where’s the awareness of your neurochemistry or your nervous system state? And then how can you. Get out of less than preferred states and upgrade into higher states of being, kind of like a spiral dynamic at the level of embodiment, at the level of your nervous system. This is a very, very great episode, um, for people that really want practical and also philosophically sound, scientifically sound, Ways to access not only quote unquote higher states of consciousness, but more more Embodied and consistent sustainable states of well being.

So I know you’re going to get so much out of this podcast Let’s dive in Will Deroode. Welcome to the podcast 

Will Deroode: Thanks, man. Appreciate it. So happy to be here and such an unreal uh moment of I’ve known you for a while like online You It’s kind of like this moment of seeing somebody who I’ve known and now being in the presence actually to share my stuff, my medicine, and also get to know you better.

Ronnie Landis: Yep. 

Will Deroode: So. Excited to be here, man. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, man. Well, it’s a pleasure to have you. Yeah, I know that we’ve, we’ve connected quite a bit on the internet over the last however many years, and I’ve seen you grow exponentially just like in your presence, in the quality and refinement of your work. And I’d love to talk about that.

So you, you’ve produced something called neural awareness. Right. So it’s, it’s a program. It’s a, it’s a principle. It’s a philosophy. It’s a, it’s a set of teachings around this idea of neural awareness. And I mean, what I really like about that, that idea is creating more awareness around, you know, our neurology, our neurological, um, I almost not, I don’t want to say neurological system.

Cause that’s almost like a different principle. That I’m thinking about, like the actual system, the actual operating system of the body, like the, there’s a lot of talk around nervous system regulation, nervous system optimization, and these are all similar ideas, but I feel like what you’re doing, you’re coming at it.

From like a, almost like a behavioral perspective and a phenomenon perspective, like the phenomenon of what happens from the signals in the brain, the nervous system, and how that translates into our behavior, how that translates into co creation of the reality itself, like the nervous system of reality.

Um, so those are, those are all, and correct me if I’m wrong or, or there’s, there’s more to the story, but that’s kind of what neural awareness kind of makes me think of when I look at it holistically. 

Will Deroode: Totally. That’s really on point. Uh, it’s like a way to break down all the different consciousness states, how your nervous system affects your state.

And then obviously your behavior is like a side effect of the state of consciousness you’re in. And one of the things that I added to the sort of modern understanding of the nervous system is a breakdown of these more subtler states. So in neural awareness, there’s nine states. And a lot of people used to think of the nervous system just as a binary, like you only have like Rest and digest, that’s, that’s the standard, and then you have only sympathetic stress, fight or flight.

And then over time that began to sort of expand and become more spectral and then you got like people saying well You could go into a freeze state or what about like if you’re depressed and then so what I did is I just created a spectrum of all nine states to help explain everything from bliss to like the deepest moments of dissociation and even psychosis.

Help explain like what’s going on in the in between and even give an expression for something like psychosis or delusion or mania So that people have a reference point for that and not just like well, that’s fight or flight because it’s not it’s something It’s another it’s something else. Yeah, it’s another layer just like bliss Is another layer of subtle refinement of the nervous system as well.

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. So how did you, how did you get into this particular field? Like, how did you get interested in this? What was the journey that led you to creating this map? 

Will Deroode: Yeah, I think if I think back, it was something I was always sort of I didn’t know it, but I was always kind of like being prepared for it.

Yeah One of my first jobs out of university Well in university, I studied psychology and focused on mindfulness anxiety depression adhd That was like one of the main topics I loved and then after that I worked in the flotation tank industry So I worked in that industry for like three and a half years four years almost And the float tank Became one of the first interfaces I had to really feel the difference, the subtle differences of my nervous system with no light, no sound, right.

To just go into my system and feel the subtleties of like, If I’m jacked up, I can feel it. Yeah. When all the sensation’s taken away. And I also got to explore lots of experiences of consciousness and dreaming and just cool stuff like that in the tank. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. . 

Will Deroode: Um, but I would say that in about 2020, my nervous system went really haywire, which I know I’m not the only one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like having to so many people. Mm-Hmm. . Um, but for me, in 2020, uh. I just experienced a new level of imbalance that I didn’t even know was possible. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. . 

Will Deroode: Uh, and in later in hindsight, like I put that on the spectrum. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Will Deroode: Um, way it showed up was, and I didn’t realize this was happening at the time, but I had panic attacks.

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. , 

Will Deroode: and which, you know, everybody’s had one or two or a few panic attacks before I had a panic attack. That started to happen every day. Oh, wow. Yeah. Which is like, that sucks. Then it started to happen every day. more than once. And then it started happening every day in the morning in the middle of the day before I go to bed.

And sometimes I’d wake up into it. So I literally was going into this panic experience almost all the time. And so I developed what people call health anxiety, which is that it was like, there must be something wrong with my body. Like why am I having all these? Like, and so I went through all of these paranoias, these fears of like, wait, what if this was heavy metals?

What if this was this, what if this was this, but totally coming from a paranoid place. And, uh, so that experience slowly began to become so overwhelming that I knew if I went to a doctor, they would say, you have panic disorder. Yeah. And then that would become my label that become my identity. Yeah. So what I did instead, which was a double edged sword is I didn’t tell anybody went through all of it on my own, which was the challenge, but it also pressed the diamond of neural awareness for me to understand these states.

And so the panic, what I realized at a certain point is it became so. neurologically overwhelming for my body that a switch went off which is um This kind of excitotoxicity this there’s so much energy that my system dissociated All of a sudden there’s like a pop and I don’t feel connected with my body.

I can’t feel my own chest I can’t like everything feels numb. It feels like i’m touching the couch, you know It feels like i’m touching an inanimate object. Um, and I lost the ability to feel emotions You And I couldn’t like love just became concept like I couldn’t feel 

it 

Which is pretty crazy to say but all of that just Um showed me another layer of the nervous system, which was the dissociative what I call neural state neural network Um, and how intense it can be because I knew you could not feel your body You could be disconnected, but I didn’t know it went that deep.

Yeah, and so yeah, then I had that experience which is like I felt like in an underworld version of the world, like I couldn’t Connect with this living spirit of anything. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, so you felt like numb totally numb. Okay, 

Will Deroode: everything felt devoid of spirit It felt unreal So there was this and I know this connection with rudolf steiner’s work as well this sort of luciferic experience But yeah, I I didn’t feel like anything was real Like nothing felt real and that’s unreality.

Yeah kind of experience. Mm hmm. So my body went there and I had a deep little shred somewhere in the back of my consciousness of like I think this is just a state because like This is this is insane. Like I I can’t even believe i’m experiencing this right now but I had this sort of like spirit guide thread just kind of showing me like No, this is happening for you so you can actually understand the whole spectrum And then I followed that And it took a while, but I developed a kind of methodology to skillfully navigate this experience of overwhelm and also put it on a chart, put it on a spectrum, put it on a map.

So now it’s like some of these underworld experiences are mapped, but also the opposite end, which was the bliss experience that I also got to touch in with later. And also before with, with psychedelics and on my own meditation and in the tank and stuff like that. Wow. That’s a little overview. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. Yeah, I can.

I can definitely understand and relate to different points, different parts of those those state change processes, and especially feeling like disassociated feeling numb and feeling like everything around you is just not real, or this reality is not real, and going through. Yeah, going through almost like a portal experience, like in a transitional state from like one frame of reality into another.

Um, and most of the times that I’ve experienced that have been either during or post like some sort of medicine or psychedelic journey. Um, and there’s just the alteration of consciousness in the frame of reality. It becomes more pixelated or less pixelated and, um, you know, going through those different altered states and the different like lenses that you feel and sense and look at life through, um, So I, I, I get that just, but, but it sounds like in your, in your experience, it was this like exaggerated, elongated span of time that you’re navigating this, this more predominant overlay, right?

And so I’m curious, like, how did you, how did you start to navigate your way through that? 

Will Deroode: Yeah, that’s a, that’s the big question. Cause for a while it was totally overwhelming and you’re right. It was this sort of overlay. In the sense that I think a lot of people talk about dissociation. They talk about like little hints of it.

Yep Yeah, what happened for me was it flipped and then that experience became the dominant one Yeah, and the concept of like living any kind of sense of ease became a foreign concept It was like that that’s possible like seemed like a dream of a memory that like I could feel normal Like what would that even look like?

I couldn’t even imagine it anymore Um, so there was a very big distortion. I remember when I would think of my future and your, the way you see your future is definitely a reflection of the way you feel your state now. If I thought of my future, my brain would generate thoughts of me like in a straight jacket, like in an insane asylum.

Oh yeah. So it was literally like I was in such a distorted place. I couldn’t even think of the future in any kind of remotely healthy way at all. So I’d be like, Hey, don’t think of that because you know, I don’t want to You know, think that and start to move in that direction, right? So what I eventually did is, um, I realized that this state, I put it, I started to put it on the spectrum, started to give it a name.

Um, and then I started to learn how to do micro shifts of my attention. So micro shifts of my attention so that I no longer began to feed that sort of, let’s call it entanglement in my brain. If I didn’t feed it, I noticed it would sort of. It would stay the same or it would begin to diminish. And if I didn’t feed it for long enough, it would begin to diminish.

And if I didn’t feed it for long enough, And I continued to use the technique of shifting my attention. It eventually dissipated to the point that it was, it wasn’t in my experience anymore. So I developed, you know, really simple techniques. One of them, I call the transition phrase, which is to help transition your mind from like, let’s say you’re looping or about to have a panic moment.

Just think about something else as simple as that sounds. Yep. Um, when you’re in an overloaded state, You know, processing your emotions isn’t you’re not really there. You’re not available for that. Yeah 

Ronnie Landis: It’s like you don’t have the capacity to process that energy. 

Will Deroode: Not at all. I was by definition. I was overwhelmed Yeah, so I had to learn to shift my attention systematically, uh So many times, right?

Like sometimes a thousand times a day. And I just use a little transition phrase. The one that I specifically use, my clients use sometimes different ones was literally the words, but anyways, so, you know, I’d have these crazy intrusive thoughts and I’d be like, but anyways, I would shift my mind. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally. 

Will Deroode: Literally a little segue. Yep. Um, and that. Was basically what created a stability in me. We call it shifting attention to promote stability. Yep. Shift attention to promote stability. I had to do it tons of times until basically my system became stable. Then once I was stable, I felt like I could, you know, interface with reality in a healthy way.

And I could actually process something before that I wasn’t available for that. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, this is amazing. I can, again, I can relate to all this in, in so many different examples. We talked about overwhelm. I’d love to go deeper into the, the felt experience of overwhelm in almost like a systematic perspective.

Cause when the system is overwhelmed, it’s like, you don’t actually have capacity to take on anything, to add anything to it. But that’s a lot of times what people do, right? It’s like, okay, I need to do something else to mitigate. this overwhelm that I feel, this anxiety that I feel, this, this reactivity, this, this, um, panic that I feel.

So I need to do something else. Excuse me. Um, but the thing is like your, your system is literally overwhelmed. Like it’s, it doesn’t have capacity, right? So this idea of being over capacity is really coming up for me to kind of dive into from a, from a systems perspective or just like a human experience perspective for people.

Will Deroode: Totally. Yeah. And it is exactly like that. Like if you are in those spaces, I call it specifically like panic, mania, any kind of paranoia, dissociation, disconnection from your body. Um, I believe that those are inherently overwhelming states to be in. So if you’re already edging into that and you try to add more, like what you’re saying.

Ronnie Landis: Like when I say add more, I mean, like do the meditation, the breath, the breath work, the yoga, the working out the, and it’s not to say that these things can’t help. I’ve been there before where it’s like, I need to, I need to change direction. I need to do something else, right? Something that, that I’m familiar with, not try to learn something new, but something I’m familiar with to, to shift the dial.

Um, but that’s, that’s what I mean when I’m, when I’m tuning into people’s ability or inability to quote unquote, do something. more, you know, something that’s, that’s inherently positive. 

Will Deroode: Exactly. So it’s like, it could be the thing that you already love so much. For example, you’re like, I love this breath work, but now you’re having a panic attack.

Right. Right. For example. Right. You know, I don’t want that to happen to anybody, but like, let’s say you’re in that position, you’re having the panic, you start doing the same breath work and you’re like, I’m feeling even more now. Right. Right. Right. So You know, it’s not medicine in all cases. It’s depending on your system.

So basically what I learned with that shifting attention to promote stability thing is that the actually the nervous system and neurology, it is inherently self harmonizing. And so all you have to do is take your attention away from whatever the spiral is. Cause the spiral is going and bringing it further in that direction.

If you just shift your attention. And for example, have another sort of train, whatever that train is. It doesn’t even have to be positive. It could be kind of neutral. The system starts to self harmonize on its own. So basically what I look at that as is a healthy distraction. Yes. If you take a healthy distraction, the system starts to self harmonize again.

So it literally could be anything. If, if you do it without fear, you could just watch a video and you’re like, Oh, okay, now I’m dropping back in. or you can, you know, be immersed with your friends, all of a sudden you forget about that spiral and that whatever it was. And the system self harmonizes enough, ideally to the point that you feel stability.

Then from the stability, you can do breath work again. You’re like, Oh, I’m solid. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. Right. And so self harmonizing, Self repair, so there’s a lot of my work is around this principle that the body is designed to self repair, self organize, self correct, if given the right, the right building blocks or the right opportunity to do so.

And so, yeah, I think this is a really important principle to like, not the, the adding on principle is usually like I need to add on something that’s positive, that’s going to move things in a positive direction. Where a lot of times we actually need to get back to neutrality. We need to get back to a neutral baseline.

That’s not polarized and the positive or negative, because I think a lot of times our consciousness can get into this place of, of polarizing an experience as negative. And so the scales of our brain, our brain chemistry and our brain wave states can get tipped and inverted. So when we identify something as negative, this is happening to me, this is against me, then it automatically polarizes our consciousness and creates a negative feedback.

System a feedback response, which is going to create an increased stress response, right? And so I think that’s that’s an interesting point too around like getting back to Neutral, which is not positive. It’s not negative. I need to get back into balance 

Will Deroode: totally and that that’s exactly what I saw with my sort of Finding freedom through those states.

I talked about panic and dissociation Was um, I had to You Neutralize that charge and shift my attention, uh, away from that. And basically what I, at the beginning, it was like, this is so intense that, uh, I didn’t even know, you know, how to navigate that experience without feeling the sense of fear. And then eventually I began to neutralize it, look at it like, okay, so this is, this is a color on a spectrum.

This is an experienceable. This is just a state. So I didn’t give it that much power that much energy and it began to neutralize. So I almost started to look at it as funny of like, Oh, well, I’m really dissociated right now. Anyways, like I took that power out of it and took the power out of like, this means that there’s something inherently really wrong right now.

Ronnie Landis: Yes. 

Will Deroode: And from that place, I was able to transition my attention and get that self harmonizing effect. 

Ronnie Landis: This is one of the more powerful principles and ideas. It may be one of the most important things in this whole podcast to like, really, I mean, for me, even listening as a recipient, I’m feeling into the power of neutrality.

Um, and there’s actually so many ways that you can travel down that rabbit hole, which we’re not, I’ll digress just because I want to stay on track with the timeline of this neural awareness work. But I feel like when we’re talking about a spectrum of states from like the absolute worst of the worst, just like the worst possible degraded.

You know, hellish state of consciousness all the way to like complete bliss heaven on earth Like david hawkins scale of consciousness a thousand pure pure beyond human identification Right, and then there’s somewhere like in the middle Is the the goldilocks zone that we can we can oscillate kind of but it’s it’s kind of in that middle point Right and that that’s balance And I think this, this word balance is becoming more and more accepted while another part of the world or the consciousness in this reality is also becoming increasingly polarized.

And so this is an interesting kind of, um, meta perspective of the macro and the micro of just the world, humanity, the times that we’re living in. The polarization of the different aspects of like media, politics, sociopolitical movements, um, cults, religion, entrepreneurship, the health community, the biohacking community, the technocentric kind of agenda for terraforming the world in a particular direction.

I mean, there’s so many, there’s so many threads that are just coming up to highlight particular movements that the, that the consciousness in the world is, is literally polarizing towards right or left. And it’s easy to, for our nervous systems to get pulled, you know, with or without our consent into these different directions.

But what a lot of people are waking up to and realizing is that there’s actually a middle way. And the middle way is, is, it’s not that it’s non dual, it’s just, it’s non polarized. It’s an integration of the right and left hemispheres of the brain, and the parasympathetic and sympathetic, the entropic and the syntropic, anabolism, catabolism, like every, every system in nature, in our own bodies, has a complementary balance.

There’s two, two systems that run the entire system, right? Okay. Um, there’s not just one way. There’s never just one way, right? That that’s dogmatic that that’s, that, then we get into this kind of weird narcissistic trap. So anyways, those are just some, like some, some thoughts that just kind of arose for me when I was thinking about the power of balance, the power of integration and the power of neutrality actually being the most powerful point on the chess board.

It’s not the king, it’s not the queen. It’s actually, it’s, it’s, it’s the, it’s the, the, the Holy Trinity. It’s the third prong, which is actually what binds the two complimentary opposites together. 

Will Deroode: Totally. I resonate with this completely. And, uh, when I think about that in the collective evolution of the human nervous system, you do see that incredible polarizing splitting.

You see that, 

Ronnie Landis: uh, 

Will Deroode: Where, you know, everybody wants to be left wing or right wing or for against, you know, a certain war in an exact, you know, predictable thought stream. And, uh, that does hijack the nervous system. So you see people going to the stress response and going to other, other people. And you do see people trying to people, please, and follow one, you know, path of, of all I want to do is, um, You know, basically fit with this thought stream to make everyone around me happy so that, you know, everyone around me who believes this perspective.

I’m going to essentially, like, just fit in with them and I don’t want to be shamed or excommunicated from this community. Yep. So that, that pleasing aspect comes in. But right in the middle, like what we’re talking about, and this fits in with neural awareness, is that neutrality. Neural awareness is not neural fixing, not neural shifting.

It’s just, it’s just awareness. Okay. And awareness is that space of neutrality. Okay. Um, so that’s what I tell my clients to do is one of the hardest things for them is just notice what you’re feeling. Don’t try to fix it. Don’t try to shift it. Just notice it and let go. And that’s really hard. This is, and that’s like the methodology.

Yeah, that’s, that’s, well, that’s one of the first techniques is that’s like the starting point is I just call it noticing, uh, right. And noticing is the first step, but to even just notice something without trying to shift it is. Can be quite challenging, 

Ronnie Landis: especially if there’s a perceived problem that needs to be fixed, right?

Will Deroode: Yeah, but that just gets into that self harmonizing principle that we were mentioning earlier It’s it’s all about trusting the self harmonizing system that 

Our 

bodies 

are 

But you brought up some really interesting points, and it reminds me of Rudolph Steiner’s work and in the sense that you have the, the luciferic and the onic.

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . 

Will Deroode: And then you have the Christ impulse in the center. Right? Yep. And that to me is very similar to the way the nervous system is structured. You have the luciferic, the escapism. Mm-Hmm. , which which can be the freeze, the shutdown states. Mm-Hmm. The nervous system. Like, I need to get out of my body.

Yeah. Or even dissociative, like full born, full blown. And then you have the Aramonic, which is a representation more so of like extra structure, extra rigidity, extra force. That’ll be like stress, people pleasing, you know, trying to perfect how you appear to the outside world. Or going into panic with so much structure, you’re trying to just control everything.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. 

Will Deroode: But then in the middle, like the three states of neural awareness that represent more of the Christ impulse would be ease, which is really where neutrality is born. Mm. Flow. Which is like once you stop, for example, like caring how you show up, you, you neutralize that reaction. Then you’re able to like flow in music, flow in creation.

Your best inspired actions aren’t from forcing it, it’s from like, neutral, I’m open, and then something flows through and you follow that, that thread. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Will Deroode: And then bliss, which would just be the ultimate representation, I think, of the Christ impulse, and of where we can experience heaven on earth, is an opening.

to the highest potential that arises from that neutralized, unconditionally loving place and field, just based on these deeper levels of our nervous system. Like that’s where it comes from, I think. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. And it’s so neural awareness as a principle and as a practice to me is kind of creating space for the emergence of something new to come about, right?

And like, it’s like, it sounds like it’s almost like a transmutative process, like from one state, we could, we could say like you’re pivoting or you’re changing or shifting from one state. But I think a more alchemical truth is that Well, here’s the, here’s the idea. It’s like, yeah, actually there’s probably two things that could be happening.

You could literally just be changing like a radio station. So I’m just shifting states from one into another, right. Which is like, what that’s, that’s, um, it’s almost like binary. And then there’s another, there’s another process where I’m actually transmuting one state into another, which is a bit more, um, Which is a bit more multidimensional.

And to me is actually more of a, uh, a therapeutic and a more of a healing. It’s a transformational process. Right, I’m curious if you’ve thought about this or this is something that you’ve, you’ve noticed. Because you can, you can shift from another state, but that, that doesn’t mean that the other state is gone.

It’s just, it’s just like, you’ve just temporarily shifted from another state. But that’s still, that state’s still an option. It’s still imprinted software in the, the hardware. I can still go back to that. I might be less prone to go back to that, but it’s still, it’s still available. Right. And so I’m curious, I’m curious if that’s something that you’ve thought about.

Will Deroode: Yeah. I love both of those explanations. The radio dial is, is definitely one that I play with and understanding this experience and in neural awareness. But the second one you’re talking about the, the concept or the idea that comes up to me is like. Almost like cranking it up an octave. Mm hmm. So it’s like the same experience, but you’re alchemizing it.

Like to a new octave. Yeah, that’s right. So now it’s, it’s the same thing, but now it’s coming through in a higher frequency. Exactly. Yeah, that’s right. Exactly. And I’ve, I’ve seen people in this space, uh, who talk about this. Um, there’s specifically a woman, I’m forgetting the name of her account, but she calls it crystalline emotion.

And 

basically the concept is like, you can have a 3d version of your same emotion and you can also have it cranked up a few octaves and have the same emotion, but experience, experience more through that. neutralized, open, unconditionally loving, you know, field, but now it’s a, you know, it’s a higher octave of the same thing.

So it’s experienced as a sort of, as the actual energy that it could have been experienced the whole time, which is as this, uh, it’s almost like crystal light. Yeah. Yeah. So I do see it that way. And, um, And that’s why with neural awareness when you basically what you do is you bring ease Through that non judgmental awareness this basic mindfulness piece That infuses ease into whatever it is that alchemizes things into ease if you’re able to bring the ease to it So even if it’s for example in me when I was having lots of disharmonious experience when I brought ease to it And shifted my attention.

The ease started to self harmonize my system, but it all comes from this. This is a primary tenant of neural awareness, which is that our inherent true self, and I know, I know you feel this and everyone listening probably already feels this, but our inherent true self. Is in a place of ease flow and bliss like well being is our natural state Like you have to believe that in order for neural awareness to work because if you believe that no I’m, actually inherently a depressed person.

That’s my actual real state 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, 

Will Deroode: then you’re creating and feeding the neural network of that shut down depression kind of flow. Yeah Whereas if you believe your true state And this as a first principle is, um, in yoga, we call it Sat Chit Ananda, existence, consciousness, bliss, or in Buddhism, just Buddha nature, like the inherent wellbeing that, that pervades everything, Christ 

Ronnie Landis: consciousness.

Yeah. I mean, there’s there, there’s so many names for it. It’s like the pinnacle of, of your, the pinnacle potential of your embodied experience, right. That’s represented in different avatars. Or different, different representations of like what we know is like avatars that have walked the earth that that’s our best reference point of what that could be.

Will Deroode: Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. And so that is an absolutely crucial first step because there’s a lot of people maybe this will be another segue right now are believing themselves to be their diagnoses. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, 

Will Deroode: and so if you think that that’s inherently who you are, and I’m not saying there can’t be intense challenges or like really sticky neural patterns and in imprints that seem like, you know, at a genetic level, like just deep stuff, I was born this way.

Ronnie Landis: Sure. 

Will Deroode: But putting that aside, if you believe that to be your identity, which is one of the other aspects of Neural Awareness, you become blended, I call it, with that state. So once you’re blended with that state, your sense of identity is merged with it, so you constantly unconsciously recreate it. And so it seems like this seamless blend.

You know flow that like this is who I am 

Ronnie Landis: totally 

Will Deroode: Versus like this is a neural pattern Which is why we have neural awareness to become aware that those patterns are running And and then create the space which then can create that process of unblending You no longer see yourself as that but you can see that any neural pattern arises and also dissipates So for example, if you’re diagnosed with adhd If you really pay attention, you’ll notice your ADHD symptoms go up at certain times, and they’ll also dissipate at certain times.

Ronnie Landis: It’s like cyclical. 

Will Deroode: Yeah, it’s not like your ADHD is on all the time. Right. It does get better sometimes. And to notice, oh, it did get, like, the symptoms got a little bit less when I was in this situation, or when I was doing this, or in this morning, just happened to be that way. That already, that awareness begins to create space, and with neural awareness, the framework is basically you’re actually able to unblend, but this is a new phenomenon.

Like, this is so, you know, don’t try to just do this overnight, but like, with neural awareness framework, and then also, I’m sure with the work that you do with some of the body stuff and and just the other pieces You can start to actually do this. You bring yourself into more ease flow and bliss total time 

Ronnie Landis: No, that’s that’s such a brilliant such a brilliant example.

It’s the same thing with addiction You know ADD is actually like a cognitive state That is that you could say if you were to track those those those those pivotal moments where somebody feels a craving or a trigger or an itch and agitation. Um, I guarantee if you were to track like their brainwave state and whatever that is in the ADD, ADHD phenomenon, that’s, that’s mapped neurologically.

I guarantee you will see the same type of pattern, if not maybe identical in the dopaminergic system lighting up and, and, you know, whatever, whatever all that is neurochemically, that’s actually the two are like mapped together, which is a whole other podcast in itself, like the connection between addiction and ADD or ADHD, right?

From a phenomenology perspective. Um, I find that super fascinating, but the point you made about the cyclical nature. And noticing what time of day do you feel the certain propensity, the certain gravitation towards different behaviors? Cause you could feel, you could have like parts in your day where you’re actually very uplifted, upbeat, you’re in a motivational state, you’re in an upward trajectory in your energy and you gravitate towards things that are healthy and you actually exert or exude discipline.

And in responsibility and in positive characteristics, and then there could be another part in your day or maybe your evening where you start to experience a polar opposite where it could be like more frivolous, um, Spending or, um, consuming of food or substances or YouTube. I mean, I’m speaking about myself too.

I’m dumb, like speaking very much about the, the irregularities that I’ve noticed. If I allow myself to go on autopilot and also using myself as an example, and this isn’t all the time, but I’ve noticed like there is a, there’s a bell curve. There is some sort of. cyclical thing that my energy will go into if I don’t moderate, if I don’t create boundaries and barriers around the riverbank.

If I just allow my energy just to go wherever it goes, then I notice in the morning my propensity towards like, healthier patterns is stronger. And then throughout the day, then, you know, it’s, it’s usually an upward, upward trajectory. And then the evening, it’s kind of like, it just depends on what happened through the day.

The, the tendency to be a little more passive or lethargic, or a little more just, um, consuming had been stronger in the evening time. So what that means is that with that knowledge, it means that for I or anyone else that relates to this, I think most people do, you have to be more, more cognitive, more cognizant about how you discipline yourself.

Let’s say in this example, in the evening, if you know that that’s where your weak points are, you have to be a little more alert and a little more on top of your patterns. Like, okay, instead of watching. The YouTube video, I’m actually going to journal instead of consuming, whatever it is, I’m going to make a different choice, right?

Whatever the upgraded choice in that department is, I’m going to sit and meditate because I know that if I look at my phone, it’s going to keep me up for a couple hours. It might feel good in the moment. I might distract myself in the moment. It might feel good. I might get entertainment out of it, but I also know my sleep quality is going to go down and then that’s going to bleed over into my morning.

And they eventually it’s going to create this unconscious algorithm in my life that I might just assume is the way that I am. But these are actually embedded programs and patterns that have created a cyclical Uh, you know, algorithm, 

Will Deroode: totally, totally. I’m thinking about, for example, somebody who works a nine to five.

Ronnie Landis: Mm hmm. 

Will Deroode: And as soon as they get home, like you said, these evenings can sometimes be like where the energy can dip. 

Ronnie Landis: Yep. 

Will Deroode: As somebody who works nine to five, their system goes into kind of a stress cycle. They’re trying to manage, they’re trying to get on top of everything, right? And then when they get home, they have a state flip is what I call it.

So they flip state flip. Okay. I was stressed. That’s a form of tension. The nervous system goes to the equal and opposite strategy, which is how do I now release the tension? Okay. Let me shut down and kind of. Yeah. Check out. Yeah. And then you can go, obviously shut down is a very consumptive mode because you’re such low energy, low arousal to feel something.

You need stimulation. There’s insert the ice cream, insert the Netflix, insert whatever. And now you’re, you’re trying to balance out with this unconscious state flipping versus in neural awareness. What we’re doing is we’re just becoming more aware of the state. So, um, instead of going right away to the discipline, the sort of neural awareness approach would be to go inside and to notice the state.

Okay. So I’m noticing I’m a little bit frozen or shut down right now. And, and because of that, obviously I’m gravitating towards that stimulation. That dopamine kind of spiking stuff. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm-Hmm. . 

Will Deroode: And then once you can create that space around it, remember I said the space kind of creates the unblend, the conditions for unblending, then you can create that openness, which allows a new pathway.

And the new pathway might be that of like, I genuinely do feel like I want to journal. I just had to start resonating with that. Mm. I wasn’t even resonating with that before I was in 

Ronnie Landis: resonating as in like my frequency Yeah. Was not resonating with the frequency of that. Action or activity. 

Will Deroode: Not at all.

Yeah, because that’s what you’re saying. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If you’re shut down, you’re not, you’re going to resonate. For example, with me, if I’m shut down, I, I personally resonate with like some of the worst things I’ve 

ever 

seen. I remember like in my deepest shutdowns, I resonate with like Chinese food with MSG and like, You know that glutamate stimulant because I’m trying to feel something I resonate with things that are not In alignment with like my ease and flow and bliss at all 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, 

Will Deroode: but I truly resonate with that when i’m shut down like that’s what seems attractive.

That’s what seems like it will feel good And, you know, mindless consumption is what feels like I resonate with that. So the neural awareness thing is all about becoming aware of the state, creating the space and the conditions for that unblending, which is a skill. Because sometimes there’s beliefs woven into that state, which keep, like, kind of give it a vice grip, keep it stuck.

Like you believe, you know, I’m stuck at this job. It’s hopeless. Okay. Well then that’s going to freeze that shutdown state into your every day cycle until you’re like, wait, I have choice. There is possibility. Yes. Then you can feel ease and maybe you can even feel flow of like, wait, I’ve been wanting to do my own business.

You can feel that opening all of a sudden, new energy, new resonance, new things are like, you just start to actually resonate with it instead of trying to force yourself. Um, the neural awareness is about. Creating the conditions to then actually resonate with what you want to do. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s amazing. Creating the conditions.

to resonate with the things that you want to do. So you make it as easy and accessible as possible. 

Will Deroode: Totally. I wanted to bridge into something that I think is a huge merger between your work, addiction free lifestyle, and just addictions in general, and what I’ve seen with the nervous system. So one of the main things that I see with The nervous system is that addictions usually correspond to certain states.

Ronnie Landis: Yep, for sure. 

Will Deroode: Um, and the states that I see the most often with addictions are freeze, sometimes functional freeze, which is known as like people pleasing, just because you get, it depletes you so much that you feel like you need to fill in something. Yep. make up for it and shut down. Like when I was saying when I’m shut down, when I’m depressed, like a long time ago, I want the Chinese food.

So there’s the addictive sort of grasping to that. But what I’ve seen the most often with people who have an addiction in my past, when I had addictions was a freeze state. And freeze is usually paired with guilt. Which is really woven into the addiction cycle. Self criticism. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Will Deroode: Um, or a sense of paralysis with the thing you actually want to do.

So, for example, a lot of people have an addiction, which actually serves a function to procrastinate something their soul is calling them to do. So, it’s serving the function to avoid the thing that their soul really wants them to do, but they’re afraid, maybe subconsciously, to do that thing. And so then that free state can create that cycle of, okay, I feel guilt, come on, do better, self criticism.

And then the guilt, self criticism. is so, you know, uncomfortable that you reach for the thing to sort of self, you know, What’s the word I’m looking for? Medicaid self medicate self medicate through it. Yep And so neural awareness is all about becoming aware of that part of you part of your nervous system part of your consciousness Um, so when I had, uh, you know, really bad addictions 10 years ago I was in a different sub personality of myself and that free state was that dominant neural network that was the sub personality.

And so what I tell people to do, and you might find this interesting is to actually name that neural network to give it a personal name. So you could feel that this part of your personality, uh, has its own sort of life. And in consciousness and desires and intentions which is separate from let’s say your soul your heart your true self Which might have completely opposite views and intentions So for me, I nicknamed this part of me just because it felt right.

I don’t know. I just chose this name edward And Edward was a representation of this form of consciousness within me. That’s self critical. That’s guilty that feels Drawn to things because I don’t feel like i’m good enough as I am Have that lack and fill it in with something And just giving it a name already creates that space where I could have the conditions for the unblending Yeah, where then I can begin to resonate with things that are actually true to my heart 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, 

Will Deroode: that’s the way that I look at it with neural awareness.

Ronnie Landis: That’s brilliant That’s brilliant. Yeah, I think everyone can relate to that for sure. With, with the neural awareness map, can you go over all the states that you’ve, you’ve put together and kind of walk us through that from, I don’t know where, where you would start exactly, but kind of walk us through that process?

Will Deroode: Totally. Yeah, I think the best place to start would probably be at stress. Then going down all the way to the furthest okay versions of stress Yeah, then kind of go then we’ll talk about going up after 

Ronnie Landis: are you familiar with spiral dynamics, by the way? Yeah, okay. Yeah, is that was that was this influence from that?

Will Deroode: Yeah, I would say that the two main influences With the spectrum model. Yeah was spiral dynamics And Dr. David R. Hawkins. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, it makes complete sense. 

Will Deroode: Yeah, I love colors. And I love like how colors help me conceptualize things. And they really both pioneered that. Uh, and spiral dynamics. Yeah, there’s a lot of similarities in some ways.

But also, neural awareness is about the neurological system specifically. Of course. Which is, uh, add some, uh, some different nuances, but yeah, let’s start with the stress, the stress one. So when I look at stress, one of the ways that I’ve conceptualized it in neural awareness is one of the words I use too, is the managerial consciousness.

So anytime you are thinking, I have to control all these variables, I am the manager of my own life. I have to control, I have to get future outcomes. You start to over plan, overthink, overdo. And that managerial state. Um, or that protector state where you’re like, you need to fight against something that feeds into that form of stress.

And that’s the, the first color of imbalance, which is yellow on the map of neural awareness, 

which 

is extremely common. It’s basically ego where you’re trying to control your life rather than trusting spirit, trusting your heart, trusting, really trusting God to lead your life in the right way, letting go.

And you can’t 

do that if you’re trying to control everything. The example that comes to my mind is the person who goes on the vacation But plans everything plans everything. Yeah, so there’s no room for fun spontaneity play actual life Right, right. It’s all gone because you’re just trying to control it and it just comes from fear The fear that if I don’t control it, it won’t be good.

It won’t be fun Or it won’t work. So there’s that lack of trust in god lack of trust in self to That it would work. Yeah, so below that You Um is a color a brighter orange, which is right next to yellow and that’s what I call pleasing which is Where there’s this this awareness emerging now around people pleasing Which is this mask the persona that we put on for other people so that we don’t get rejected We don’t have conflict with others and so that we can try to smooth in but it’s kind of like a fake smooth Between you and for example family or your job at work You And you see that with the uptone in the voice and that anxiety of like, oh, yeah, everything’s fine.

Like no, don’t worry about it Go with that that uptone that uptick in energy, but then what do they lose the authenticity? Like actually no, I don’t feel good about this or this isn’t what’s really alive for me But i’m just telling you that everything’s great because 

I want to smoothen 

that 

Ronnie Landis: yeah, 

Will Deroode: and so people pleasing is this very sneaky sympathetic uptick Because it requires energy to edit yourself You can’t do that passively.

Like you have to be actively editing. Like, oh no, everything’s different. Like, what could I say to make them happy? You start thinking using extra energy. Yeah. Which totally disconnects you from authentic, effortless life flow. Which is, doesn’t take energy to be yourself. So people pleasing is the state under that.

And then below that is what we were just touching on, which is freeze, which is a normalized state in this society of like numbing, checking out, kind of going out of your, your body into your head and where judgment and where self criticism lives. Is the way that I look at neural awareness is when you have a judgment Judgments block the flow of energy Because like I would express this but i’m judging it.

Okay. So now the energy of expression gets blocked like I would express You know my dancing I have a judgment towards myself. So now I can’t dance. So the judgment blocks energy, freezes energy. And so freeze is just a manifestation of where we judge ourselves and others and where self criticism, judgment, paralysis sort of roots into our bodies at a neurological level.

So below that, we have shutdown, which is the color red. Which is where basically the judgment takes full power and we literally collapse that pattern. You can’t now it’s shut down so if you wanted to You know dance, but then you have a shutdown around you’re dancing a full on collapse 

You 

get to the dance floor and you’re like, I just want to leave like I don’t want to be here I just I just want to like you literally get limp.

You like want to lie down So yeah, that’s where I truly believe in shut down. Um, depression lies, um, lack of arousal, lack of hope, um, lack of possibility and the collapsation of viewing any possible success and just seeing failure as inevitable. 

And 

then we get to where we talked about at the beginning, which are, and maybe we’ll take a break after these six, um, the panic.

Which is the space, I call it pink on the model, which is the space of not only paranoia, but also OCD, obsessiveness, mania. So this unbalanced energy, excessive energy, which is really based on obsessive thinking. Obsessive thinking is always based on fear, paranoia, because if you trusted, you wouldn’t have to repeat it in your mind over and over and over and over again.

Ronnie Landis: Which 

Will Deroode: So that color pink also connects with health anxiety, which is obsessively thinking something’s wrong with my health. And then below that, which is the furthest extremes of imbalances is dissociation, um, or that bodily disconnection, um, which is connected with that unreality experience that, um, when chronic is extremely imbalancing for people.

Um, so that’s this, those are the six states of imbalance. 

Ronnie Landis: Does it? Okay. I like that. Those are the six states of imbalance. I like how you label that. Yeah. And then let’s go into the, the positive upswing states and then we’ll round this out. 

Will Deroode: So the first state of Above the managerial ego, the stress is, is ease.

I was touching on it before and ease is the absolute foundation of feeling safe and trust to be yourself and accepting yourself in life and to be able to interact in any kind of authentic way. Like you, you can’t really, with everything I just talked about, if those states are strong, how are you going to interact authentically?

You’re like, this fear of like trying to control the manager or trying to, people please, it’s going to obscure your capacity to be real and accepting and loving. Yeah. So ease is the foundation. The words that come to mind are like safety, trust, and just basic acceptance of self and other, which most of us have had it.

Even if our lives have been crazy messed up and you’re technically like yeah, like I have PTSD or whatever We’ve had moments of ease like everyone’s had moments of ease whether it’s with family or just like You’re just in the shower and you just you just felt ease So it uses that foundation where you and where I probably get the most passionate is where ease turns into that heightened potential Where you move into that that area of peak performance, which is flow And, and flow state is, is the buzzword that people use.

But flow is, we’ve gone from green and ease to dark green and flow in terms of the model. And the dark green and flow is where now, you’re actually able to truly channel in an effortless way, your passion, so higher arousal, higher energy, higher output, peak performance, but it’s also connected with not just feeling ease and like, you know, a little bit playful in flow.

You can really play with life. Like you, you’re now all of a sudden, you’re like, You’re able to really socialize and connect deeply with people when I think of Austin You know, I definitely think of flow like the collective nervous system here has a lot of flow Compared to some places in other places in the world and definitely in some places in canada.

It’s a little bit more frozen Yeah, like people are less open or passionate about things Here I feel because of the entrepreneurship energy. There’s a lot of flow. Yeah in the nervous system, which is really good for me I love being around that. Yeah, yeah But yeah, that’s where like peak performance comes from.

That’s where people talk about being in the zone. It’s in that, that flow expression of the nervous system. You have to trust yourself. You have to trust life in order to be able to channel that effortless expression of who you are. Yeah. And then where that takes the third click, which I think is where the new dimension of consciousness will become available for humanity.

People talk about the fifth dimension people talk about fourth density consciousness Or just almost like a form of like enlightenment in a way It’s going to come from that third tick which is bliss And bliss is where flow clicks into such a gear That now it becomes like liberating and it becomes like spiritually touching to your heart like you can feel A love and a new electricity move through your body.

It’s not just a concept of like Oh, I feel like awakened or something like that. You actually feel a different version of electricity run through your body. You feel it in your hands and your arms and your neck and your head. You feel this subtle tingles and, uh, like silky velour, like sensations through your body.

Some people have experienced that through MDMA or psychedelic breakthroughs, and it’s just, it’s tangible. It’s physical. It’s in the nervous system. The electricity’s changed. And when that clicks into gear, I feel that that is, That new dimension of consciousness that I believe we’re collectively moving towards it’s available in bliss That’s where the heaven on earth experience is and that’s what I believe we’re unraveling all of this other stuff to organically express and uh, yeah bliss the moments that i’ve had a Really a full on bliss moment have been so touching They’ve like they continue to motivate me like now, you know to do what I do because it’s been that electric.

Um, I’ll share just a little bit about it just because I think for people listening, it could be like inspiring or, or maybe they’ll resonate with it if they’ve had an experience like this. I remember there was one day I just woke up and for no given reason, you know, I had been doing neural awareness for maybe a couple of years or a year and a half or something like that.

I woke up one day and my shoulders were just settled like an inch or two lower. And I was like, Oh, that’s nice. Like, Whoa. And I felt this experience of ease. And, uh, I drank some water and, uh, then turned on some music. And I noticed as I was moving, all of a sudden my system went into flow. Like I felt like that uptake right away into flow.

Like the fluidity in my body was just this next level. Like normally I already dance a lot and all of that, but like it just clicked into another gear and I was like, Oh, I’m really, I’m really available for this. And then within a few minutes dancing, something happened where the music. Hit me in an emotional wavelength where all of a sudden it went from just like, okay, yeah, I’m flowing.

I’m passionate. Like I’m alive. I’m feeling emotion to It just went to this moment of liberating transcendence and I felt the moment it happened this electricity conductivity changed in my body and I felt all this electricity run through my heart down my arms to my hands and my hands felt So electric like as if I almost got electrically shocked Yeah, like and i’ve had that with psychedelics as well.

I’m coming out of dmt and stuff like that My hands started to feel so electric and pleasant and my whole body was so melty and fluid like I felt like all of a sudden dancing was this if if when I’m frozen it’s hard to dance because I’m stuck in that state like dancing was absolutely effortless and every move I did felt like You know, um, it looked good.

It felt good. Everything about it was electric. And I remember I put my hand, my left hand to the left and reached it out. And I put my right hand to the right and reached it out. And I felt the sensation on the tips of my fingers and my whole palm, the same feeling of if you hold your hands and you touch somebody that you love, that feeling of electricity and that feeling of connectedness in the palms of my hands.

I felt that just having my hand in the air. So the weird sensation was it literally felt like I was, I was holding somebody’s hand and I could feel love and connectedness in my hands. And it felt so strong that I almost felt like I was touching a thousand, holding hands with a thousand people to the left, holding hands with a thousand people to the right.

And I felt all of that. And what I imagined that would feel like if I did that, haven’t done that, but I want to. Yeah. And I felt all of that. And I just burst out, you know, into, into tears and all of this, like, I would say maybe like repressed or just old emotional material just came through in this loving container of like, wow, I really felt all that.

And now I feel free enough to feel all of these things. And so it was just this powerful moment and, uh, it lasted, you know, for a few hours and it was completely sober, completely natural, and it gave me a view on just how, uh, life transformational this third tick in this state of consciousness model really can be, uh, because it still touches me to today.

And one of the things that was so, you know, life changing about it was it was completely natural. I didn’t do anything. I literally woke up and did nothing. I just woke up that way. And I think that that’s how these shifts in consciousness will happen for those of the, those of us who are doing this. In her work, you could call it, um, I call it sudden realization or spontaneous emergence.

Once you create the conditions, like lightning striking a rod, you have spontaneous emergence and, and it just happens. And you’re like, I can’t really take credit for this. Like, I mean, I tilled the field, but like, it just happened. And, uh, Yeah, that’s what I would kind of put out there for anybody especially like maybe working for like you want to become enlightened or I want to become this or whatever.

Um like letting that go because everything does arise organically on its own. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. So there’s the model, man. Wow, this is a lot deeper than I anticipated. Yeah, you, you’ve, you’ve really constructed and architected an incredibly well thought out systematic approach to really upgrading your consciousness.

And it’s, it feels super unique. And yet I understand all the different elements that you’ve put together. And it’s obviously born out of your own. lived experience. So yeah, I think this, this was incredibly valuable. I know that people listening to this are going to gain so much of this. So thank you. And where can people find more about the neural neural awareness work?

Will Deroode: Yeah. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to be here and, um, and just share about this and have a container to like dive deep into it. Um, I have an Instagram for my personal, which is at will. W I L L dot Darude, D E R O O D E and that’s where I share most of, you know, all of this material regarding everything from consciousness to even more esoteric concepts and kind of leaning more now into the multidimensional topics, like I want to expand on that.

And then I have another Instagram just for neural awareness called at neural n e u r a l dot awareness a w a r e n e s s dot method m e t e you know everybody knows about method but at neural awareness method and uh that’s where i post specifically just on the neural awareness method and go into the nine states and in detail there so the best place to connect with me is on instagram or if you want to find me on facebook some people prefer facebook uh i’m will darude on facebook and it’s all there Um, I do want to lead an event here in Austin.

I’ll only be here for probably the next few weeks. So we’ll see when this goes out and if it would align with people, um, but sharing neural awareness in an interpersonal context, um, because I found you can use neural awareness with yourself, but one of the most powerful vehicles for using it is with another.

Because if you have a conscious awareness of your state, your nervous system, when you’re connecting with another person, and you can unravel those protective layers and walls, um, you can have this neurological attunement that is profoundly therapeutic. Um, so in that workshop that I’ll probably be hosting, um, pretty soon, we use eye gazing and finger sensing.

So sensing the tips of the fingers from another, because there’s electricity that goes to the tips of the fingers. We’re super sensitive in that area. Yeah. Um, compared to other areas of the body to neurologically attuned with another person. I also do have online trainings that I do on the neural awareness method specifically for teaching and training and helping entrepreneurs, coaches, therapists, and people who are just fascinated about it to learn how to use it, to apply it with their clients in whatever work they’re already doing to kind of find the overlap.

Yeah. Because neural awareness is meant to be hyper integratable. It’s not meant to replace anything, it’s just meant to add on a new layer of awareness to whatever you’re already doing. And, uh, then in the future I plan to have other courses that sort of like fold into deeper layers of the esoteric aspects of it, like, um, expanding consciousness, ascension, how this all interplays together.

And even the unseen realms, which was like, I think one of the posts I shared that maybe caught your attention about, you know, entities in these invisible planes of reality. How does that overlap with our nervous system and its states? Um, I’ll, I’ll probably do a course, you know, going into that material in the future as well.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Amazing. 

Will Deroode: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Amazing. Incredible body of work.

Will Deroode: Thanks, man. Pleasure. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Thanks for being here. Well, appreciate it.