Ronnie Landis: Greetings, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Holistic Life Mastery Podcast. I’m your host, Ronnie Landis. And really, really excited to get into today’s episode. This is with a very close friend of mine and a colleague. His name is Chris Dufey. And Chris is, he’s like a super coach. He’s a super coach, super entrepreneur, and just somebody that has devoted his life to peak performance in every area of his life.

Me and Chris met each other this last summer in Bali, Indonesia. When we were both living out there, I was there for about six months. He was there for a number of years and we were connected through a mutual friend of ours. In the moment, him and I got together, literally within the first 30 seconds, we just dropped into a really powerful and personal conversation, which led to a number of different podcasts that we did together.

And we did this episode literally right after we did an hour plus, um, interview for his podcast. And I highly recommend checking that out. Um, go to the Chris Dufey podcast and look up Ronnie Landis if you want to listen to that episode. Right when we were done with that, we switched over and then I interviewed him.

And this conversation is incredible. I got to listen to this. Obviously I listened to the podcast before I do the editing. And it was just super inspirational. I mean, this podcast is the ultimate conversation when it comes to personal development, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually. If you’re an entrepreneur or you’re thinking about going in that direction, then this podcast is going to serve you extremely well.

We went into so many different topics and explored a lot of things that I think are going to be very, very fascinating. No matter what walk of life you’re coming from, no matter what your interest or your goals are in. We talk a lot about health, physical health, mental health. We got really deep into that.

We even talked about psychedelics and his experience. Particularly with psilocybin, a little bit with ayahuasca, and also integrating that with float tank therapy, which was a really fascinating angle on it. And this is just a really amazing podcast. What else can I say? This is definitely worth your time.

I know that you are going to get so much out of it. I’m going to actually go back and listen to this when I’m done with the interview and I upload this, I’m going to listen to it just like I’m listening to any other podcast because the nuggets of wisdom are deep and profound and wide ranging. And, uh, there’s going to be so much here that really triggers a motivational impulse in you to better your life in all areas and really make those changes that you’re looking to make in your life.

Not later, but right here, right now. So enjoy this conversation between me and my good friend, Chris Dufey. Chris Dufey, welcome to the life mastery podcast in your recording studio here in Austin, Texas. I’m so happy to have you. 

Chris Dufey: Thank you, dude. I appreciate you. I appreciate you wanting me. here with you. Um, really looking forward to this and I will not take this as my recording studio, but he’s definitely an Airbnb that I’ve booked and it’s turned out to be really good.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. And so for everyone listening, um, Chris came here from Australia and he’s been interviewing just a ton of amazing influencers and coaches and entrepreneurs and luminaries in the transformation space. And you’re on a tour right now. We just did an amazing podcast for your podcast, and now we’re flipping the script and you are in the life mastery show.

And so let’s start with that theme, mastery, life, um, it’s a deep one to deep rabbit hole. It’s a mutual resonance point between you and I think we, we got deep into that on many subjects like life and mastery as separate and intertwined concepts. So, I’d love to know what does mastery mean to you? 

Chris Dufey: It’s a beautiful question to kick us off, dude.

Mastery to me is an innate calling for what I want in life that matters to me most. Mastery is me being able to show up to serve others and to serve myself in the best capable way that I can in a moment to moment fashion. Mastery to me is what I want out of life because to me it points to the willingness to go to uncomfortable places, the willingness to learn.

the willingness to open myself up to be able to receive from whom and what I need to receive from as well. And so I feel a very, a desire, a calling for mastery. It’s something that I just feel really like, I want more of 

that. 

I want more of that. And I dedicate my days to mastery as well. And I feel like I am able to do that in a proficient way as well because I’ve gotten much better in knowing the truth to myself and what matters to me as well.

So therefore I’m very aligned with what I do so that I can attain mastery and it’s something that is on top of my mind every single day. 

Ronnie Landis: Amazing. What stops people from achieving mastery? 

Chris Dufey: Being unfocused, being undisciplined, not having the time, attention, the awareness, the practice, the skills to know with inside what it is that you want at the end of the day.

So even if we start with the concept of like, do I want what I want? And starting there. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: And really unpacking that. Like, I am not shitting you. I sat on the plane yesterday, got my journal out, and wrote at the top, What do I want to want? And I started to unpack that again, because it’s something that I feel like needs a continuous touch basis with it as well.

And 

so therefore, once I’m clear with what I want, and it not being something of, You a memetic effect because I’m just being influenced from outside people and outside sources because I’ve very much had that as well. And again, through kind of like this chapter change of life, I’ve really come to this, Whoa, hang on.

It’s actually funny because we briefly spoke about on, uh, when I was interviewing you, but this session that I recently had, like with this lady going through some stuff. It was very woo, but very awesome at the same time. 

Ronnie Landis: We love that stuff. 

Chris Dufey: I totally do. I can, I love playing in that world also. But for me, it was, this is the first time in my life that I’m actually asking, what does Chris want?

Ronnie Landis: Hmm. 

Chris Dufey: Damn, it was scary when I was like, Whoa, hang on. Like, okay, it’s really the first time I feel like I’m consciously with awareness, being able to ask, what does Chris want? It’s why I’m here right now, because this is what Chris wants. 

This is 

one. avenue for me to attain mastery is I’m literally making the investment of money and time and energy and the sacrifice so that I travel the world to sit down with amazing people to have the conversations I want to have with these people because very much like the Christopher Dufey show, the podcast, the YouTube, everything that I share publicly.

It’s literally a selfish way for me to be able to better myself. 

And 

I just want to be able to kind of like leave breadcrumbs and I want to be able to leave and teach the lessons that are essentially, I’m just learning from myself as well. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Likewise. I mean, that’s really the best way to start a podcast.

If you start a podcast because it’s going to be a marketing strategy or it’s going to be a business or anything. Those are all byproducts and those are all obviously like the utilization of a podcast for a business or a brand, but that’s not why you start a podcast. I don’t know if I’ve ever made any money out of my podcast.

I’ve promoted things, but I don’t know if anything’s translated. I don’t do the metrics, but I’ve done 300 plus podcasts since 2016 and I’ve kept it going because it’s a passion. And like you said, like sitting here with people. It’s like, I get to connect with people that I would never have been able to connect with under most circumstances if it weren’t for me having the podcast.

And now some of those people such as yourself have become very dear friends of mine. 

Chris Dufey: I find it very interesting. So I think two, two things come up for me when you say that is so many of my great friends have come through some sort of podcast interviewing content creation world of some sort, which I just find really cool.

So really 

interesting. 

Totally. Like it’s impeccable how these worlds intertwine and just how amazing it is. But also I started my first podcast in 2014 and Johnny Bowden was my first guest that I ever had. Pretty cool dude to like kick everything off with as well. I very much did it for the business side of things, right?

So don’t get me wrong. I’m very good at business and I can be very knowing on what works, what doesn’t work, how to build a business, all of that kind of stuff as well. Very intellectual in that side of business stuff that I have been, and now I’m weaving, dare I say, the heart and the soul into it also now.

But I know that I’ve made millions of dollars through my podcast, buy through or buy products as well. And obviously this isn’t something that we’re going to get into because I don’t really care about it anymore, to be honest. But like I podcast and especially from a case of point of, a business owner running a podcast.

It is a great lead nurturing tool, not a great lead generation. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. That’s a good point. 

Chris Dufey: Right? So it’s like, I’m not, you don’t start a pod, especially today, you don’t start a podcast because I’m wanting to get millions of people listening to my stuff. And I dare say as well, this is actually something I was doing on not that long ago was if you are creating content and it’s getting viral, Uh, audience to it, you’re actually not being specific with your content because most of the people, especially in the world that I’m with, do you mean like entrepreneurs, business owners?

Uh, it’s a case of your actual market. Right. If we were to speak for you right now, if we were to be like, all right, your market of men that you want to be able to get into this men’s program that you’re going to be able to open up with very soon, the actual TAM, total addressable market is very small, right?

So if you’re having millions and millions of people, do you know what I mean? Actually are watching and getting onto your content. It could be because it’s too broad and it’s not specific enough, and maybe you only want 200 views. Right. Because the funny thing is 

Ronnie Landis: if you’re, if you’re like, if you’re single mindedly focused on a particular niche, right.

Whereas like I, I have a broad, so that’s another interesting thing. I just think it’s fascinating. Like, cause we’re multi dimensional. I think there’s a multi dimensionality meaning multiple dimensions or lay lines of focus of interest that goes into our work. So for example, my work has multiple focuses.

There’s multiple messages that are, that are kind of interwoven, right? So that, so it’s kind of like, I think there’s also like an, there’s something emerging too, there’s something new that’s emerging out of the specificity that’s becoming like, like general, but it’s, it’s integrating, if that makes sense.

Chris Dufey: It totally does. And I think the root of this, and it’s a case of. Why are you doing what you’re doing? And if someone’s like, I want to start a podcast because I want to build my business, which I think the majority of people do, or they, or they’re wanting it to be monetized in some way, which I think is ludicrous because they don’t even know what their economic model is, what they’re trying to do, but it’s a case of if podcast because I want to get more clients on, do you know what I mean?

Like this sort of world, it could very much be, Whoa. Do you mean like, as Buddha said, it’s not the outcome of an action that makes it a success. It is the motivation behind it. So what’s happening is the motivation behind doing that is wrong because you’re not actually best serving yourself. But in this scenario, I don’t sell anything, right?

So like my content, and because we are multi dimensional and I want to speak to those multi dimensions of everything, because this is just what fascinates me. Totally. It’s what I care about. Yeah. It’s a case of, I’m not selling anything and I’m just talking to these things. Come along for the ride, learn what you can for it.

Amazing. Do you know what I mean? But I think when it comes to like doing, starting a podcast and, um, wanting to build a business out of it. I think there’s a lot of people that are doing it with the wrong motivation. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. Okay. Got it. There’s mad tangent just from the get go. And that’s great. Well, selfishly interesting to me too.

And I think for a lot of people listening, probably people that listen to podcasts, um, understanding the, the mind behind it and the motivation behind it. Um, Okay. Well, I’d love to have that conversation with you later. Um, so back on this theme of mastery. So, so we talked about like, what mastery is to you, what, what stops people from mastery.

Then you brought up this idea of wanting what I want that, that really struck a chord with me. And I, I understand the deeper kind of notes of what that means. Maybe we can just unpack that a little bit. So, so. the discovery process of wanting what I want. For some people, they might hear that and be like, okay, it sounds like it makes sense.

It sounds like it’s deep, but I don’t, I can’t, it’s like a cognitive like schism. I can’t actually wanting what I want. What the heck do you mean? Why? Why? I want what I want, but do you really, that’s, do you really want what you want? 

Chris Dufey: That takes work to unpack. That’s where, do you know what I mean? silence, stillness, spaciousness, doing the work, journaling, awareness, practices of whatever it comes to, and trial and error using feedback from the world reality to be able to help you navigate that as well.

And I, I think that’s where it’s a case of like, if someone’s like, Oh man, Chris, I don’t know really what I want right now. Hey, that’s cool. Yeah. It doesn’t make you a bad person. Yeah. You’re still a beautiful human being no matter what. It’s just going to take some steps moving forward and you’ll take a couple of steps and you’ll stumble to the side and that’s okay.

You get back up and you figure it out. I think that’s what comes with wisdom is being able to know that, do you mean like, and I think far too many people are trying to attain knowledge. But they’re not trying to have that informative turned to the transformative and have that as wisdom. Do you mean like knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.

Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad, 

Ronnie Landis: right? Yeah. Totally. That’s a great analogy. 

Chris Dufey: It’s just a case of being able to apply the things that you know into real life so that you are living a better life and showing up better. 

Ronnie Landis: And wisdom is philosophy like experienced, something like that. Like, it’s like you can have a philosophy and God knows everybody does.

And many have conflicting philosophies and they don’t know because they don’t know what they want. 

Chris Dufey: Well, 

for me, 

it’s the, the, the integration and the difference between phrenesis and And Sophia. So, Philosophia, which is a love of wisdom. Sophia, uh, do you know what I mean? Can talk more to the intellectual, heady, academic side of things when someone may think of like philosophy, but where I also, and I think I lean a little bit more towards and maybe just what interests me more is more phronesis, the Greek word of like practical philosophy.

Do you know what I mean? Like how does this apply to me today in this situation, to what I’m doing, to where it is that I want to go, to what I want to attain? Like, what does that really look like? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Relevant wisdom. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Um, talk to us about the work that you’re doing now. Well, actually, listen, listen, before we go there, like, Catch us up a little bit because I know you’ve gone through some big transitions and for everyone listening.

So me and Chris met in Bali, Indonesia, when we were both out there, we were connected through our mutual friend, Josh Trent. And the moment you and I connected, it was just like instant, like instant kindred souls, brothers, just instant connection. We went deep. Right out the get go, I was going through a lot of very confusing transitions in my interpersonal reality.

And, um, and you also were in the process of selling a big company that you had built, and then also an identity, a brand, a mission, and a message that was interwoven into it. and you’re a father of four, four daughters, um, you know, loving husband devoted all the, you know, like all the things that like, like the consummate masculine would represent, like in, in really holding it to like in a, in a very powerful way and also super humble and loving and all, all the things like just, um, So I honor you for that and also just, just kind of catching people up on like who you are as, as we kind of spelunk into this conversation.

Chris Dufey: Thank you, dude. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for seeing me and thank you for saying those kind words. It’s, uh, in a super tight nutshell. Um, do you know, in the last 10 to 11 years has been in very interesting cycle, a chapter. to my life where I left Sydney. I ran a personal training business, uh, in Sydney to move to Dubai.

I ran a fitness business in Dubai and also lived there for two years. I burnt out. I moved to Bali in 2014, 2014, I think it was, and, um, lived there for nine years. Uh, in which where I then transitioned from running a fitness business to running a business coaching business that turned into the company that I sold at the end of last year, which was something that I’d wanted to have done for a little while.

I struggled with the belief. in myself. Was I worthy? Was I good enough 

to be 

able to do that sort of thing? It’s such a, like, I got told by so many people, you can’t sell a coaching business. Like no one sells a coaching business. But I was like, no, I want to do this. This is something that I, I want to do.

And I was directed towards that. Uh, did it very successfully. Great. But then also during this chapter, I am a father of four daughters. My wife has had five pregnancies. There was one miscarriage along the way as well. Um, I’m blessed. My daughters are just amazing. They’re just incredible human beings and they are great teachers to me.

And I, I love being their father. I find it a huge blessing. Um, and It was very much this, my wife and I, uh, decided that we didn’t want to continue living in Bali full time. And so we, we struggled with, it’s such a shitty first world problem to be perfectly honest, but it was like, where in the world do we live?

Do you know what I mean? Like we can literally, we could literally just walk onto a plane and go and live anywhere. And so it was also through then the dynamics and the, do you know what I mean, the, the, the organism of our family will. Um, what best serves my four daughters and my wife, these five incredibly important people in my life.

I’ve got to look after these five and what does that look like? And so, uh, we moved to Australia. We bought this property in sunshine coast of Australia at the end of 2019. Um, so we moved back there and it’s been incredible because we’ve only been back for a few months now. And. My wife has never been happier than I’ve ever seen before.

Like she’s levitating with happiness and my girls are just, they’re just super happy. We’ve got them into this Steiner school that was kind of like our dream school that we wanted them to be able to go to. The community that we’ve moved back to, like these amazing friends that are there in our community.

They’re just nothing short of impeccable. And I will admit, running and running. To anyone that’s listening or watching with us as well, um, like my wife turned around and she was just like, thank you so much for the life that you’ve provided for us. Like, this is amazing. She sent me a message last night saying the exact same thing and as a husband and as a father and as a man, it’s one of the best feedbacks.

I was like, wow, all of that literal bloodshed and pain that I’ve gone through. in this time. All worth it. Totally cool. But do you mean send me back out to battle? I’ll do it all again. Do you know what I mean? Like that was how refreshing that felt to kind of like get that scene back to me. Um, but also, um, I’ve got to figure out myself now.

I felt like I’ve taken care of my daughters and my wife and then I literally am like, Oh, what about Chris? What does Chris want? Do you know what I mean? What’s the life that I want to lead and live now also. Um, and so me unpacking this and this is why I want to talk about this publicly because I feel like there were so many other conversations, especially with men, especially successful entrepreneurial men.

I’ve had many, many, many, many conversations as of late where I feel like these men are lost. They are having a meaning crisis. They’re having a problem where more success, more money, more accolades, more achievements does not fulfill. what I’m calling the God shaped hole that they have inside of them as well.

Right? You can’t stuff more cash into that hole, doesn’t fix the problem. 

So what 

do you do in that case as well? And so for me, it’s like, Oh wow, this is really interesting. Kind of like this outside feedback that I’m getting from the world and how I’m feeling and what I’m going through as well, because You know what?

I would not have been able to say this not that long ago, but I, I know that I’m worthy and that I’m good enough and I have built an amazing life. Do you know what I mean? Like when I look at the wheel of life, um, it’s incredible. I’m incredibly grateful. Like I’m financially free. I, I did an, uh, a video not that long ago talking about how for me, and I got this from a mentor of mine, Sharon.

Love you, Sharon. is, uh, financial freedom is having 200 percent uh, passive income coming as being able to pay for what life costs. Do you know what I mean? So for us as a family of six living the life that we want to, I now have a passive income that is over 200 percent of that. I don’t have to work for money, but what’s very interesting is I’m now working more than I was working before because I’m so goddamn into what I’m doing now and and finding my way as well.

Don’t, please don’t think that I’ve got the answer because I’m definitely not. I’m fumbling my way, especially in this kind of section now. But so what I’ve come to and why I share that is so I can give it context to My thinking around this and to help people piece this together for themselves is I thought of we need two machines in our lives.

There’s a money making machine and there’s a meaning making machine, right? And most people think they’ve got to be in those same circles together, right? How I make money and how I make meaning in my life have to come from the exact same things. And I just sat back and I was like, hang on. No, I don’t agree with that.

I think that is incorrect. There is a spectrum and it depends. Do you mean for you, for me, for everyone else, what does that actually look like? And so for me, I actually found that my money making, my meaning making are actually quite separate things. Okay. Right? So when it comes to what is Chris doing now, There is the behind the scenes stuff that I don’t really talk about publicly, which is the work that I do with my partners, right?

So I now partner with amazing people, coaches, experts, consultants, that sort of jam where they need to be in their zone of genius. Typically, they’re running a fairly successful to a successful business, but they’re having a problem growing and scaling their business. because the business stuff isn’t their actual forte, right?

So they could be this absolutely amazing content creator on this one specific field or topic. But when it comes to actually building a true, sustainable, real business that can operate, do you know what I mean? That’s not their forte. And you know what? This is where I was like, why the fuck does everyone think we’re supposed to be able to be great at everything?

Does that make sense? Like, you’re supposed to be absolutely good at everything. It’s like, no, it’s, it’s quite a unicorn fallacy at the end of the day with what that looks like as well. So it’s been really interesting is now I kind of. Um, come in at, I don’t even know what the label is, but essentially there’s kind of like a coach consultant role that I come in as to be able to help people grow and scale their businesses and take all this stuff off their plate that isn’t their forte that is my forte and I best be able to support them to be able to grow and it’s worked out well so far marvelously.

Um, it’s really cool, but then the meaning making, well, that’s what we’re doing here. This is why I had to decide and I was like, What is it that I want to do? How do I obtain mastery in the areas of life that I truly want to obtain mastery in? And for me, it was coming to the decision, and this is where like, to be perfectly honest, this year is an experiment.

And so ask me next year and I can have a completely different answer, but this year I’ll have a few shooting trips lined up where I do me, travel the world, do exactly this, had these amazing conversations, and then I go back into my cave, back into my other world. Do you know what I mean? And happily living that day to day life as well.

So there’s, there’s kind of these really two lives that I’m kind of like toggling between as well, which is where one side of me very much wants to be in my cave, in my home office by myself. Do you know what I mean? Being able to do that sort of work with what it is, but then also very much being here wanting to be able to, integrate and learn and communicate with other people.

Um, because it lights me up at the same time. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, absolutely. There’s multiple facets to all of us. There is. Yeah. We all, we have alter egos. Yeah. Right. The alter ego effect. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah. Dude, Todd Herman wrote the alter ego effect and he’s a beautiful human being. And that book changed me dramatically. That book changed me dramatically.

Ronnie Landis: So. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe let’s talk about that for a moment. Like the different, the different hats or the different, the different, um, ego identifications that we, we transition between based on the context of whatever it is that we’re doing. So our work life, our home life, our family life, our, you know, there, there, there’s all these different, a lot of people, I feel like they, they, they feel like they have an identity crisis or identity conflict or they don’t know how to reconcile like between the light, their, their authentic self and authentic self, their shadow, their addictive self, their heels.

Like there’s, there’s all this language around all this kind of thing, these different compartmentalized selves, if you will. Um, I am curious what your perspective is on any of that, if you have any in your own experience. 

Chris Dufey: Well, I think we have an identity crisis because the story we tell ourselves about ourselves is incongruent.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Okay. And that’s where 

Chris Dufey: that starts. And so that’s where we have to start to be curious. You know, loving, attentive. Um, generous, receptive way for ourselves and understanding what we’re going through. And so for me, I very much wanted to be as aware and as conscious as possible being like, okay, I’m, I’m wrapping up a chapter of my life and I’m opening up a new chapter.

Who is, who is this other person? And what was amazing, like we briefly touched on this in the, um, the interview that I did with yourself. And so my wife and I, we’ve been married for over 11 years now. And Only recently, having gone through some hard stuff that I never thought I’d ever go through, but going through some stuff where we now are like, like I say, like we’re like dating each other again and we’re like seeing each other for who we are here now, now, not the previous version.

Ronnie Landis: That was like a death. 

Chris Dufey: Oh, it’s totally. 

Ronnie Landis: You guys, both of you went through some like relational type of death. Totally. A hundred percent. Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: Like one of the hardest things by far that we’ve ever gone through as a relationship. Best thing that ever happened. Best thing that ever happened. And for me, it was a case of, I truly chose Lauren as my wife, my partner, my queen.

I truly chose the life that I want to live moving forward and, and then getting more clear clarity and. respect for who I am 

as 

well. 

Ronnie Landis: Like at a deeper level 

than you had 

before. 

Chris Dufey: To who I am now. 

Ronnie Landis: To who? Oh, okay, gotcha. The version of you now had to, had to reinitiate yourself. 

Chris Dufey: Who, who’s this person that I have created with as much conscious awareness that I could have today?

Like who is this person? Cause I see, like I see photos of previous me and I’m like, I can’t even relate to that dude. Who the hell is he? Do you know what I mean? Like there’s been these. evolutions of who I think we should be unraveling because that’s what we do at the end of the day. And I don’t want to become the same person.

And I just want to do that to my best ability so that I can, I mean, serve others and serve myself and be able to lead a life where I can say to myself, I love myself and I love my life. 

I 

want to be able to do that. And At the same time, do you know what I mean? Like, man, over the last couple months, I’ve had suicidal ideation come back up for me as well.

And it scared the fuck out of me. Scared the fuck out of me. Because again, it was a case like I’ve, I’ve been diagnosed with depression before and that scared the fuck out of me. And I know there’s that dark side there. There’s that dark wolf. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s there. 

Chris Dufey: And I don’t want to depress or suppress that part.

I want to give it light and love and also know that it’s there. But also I want it to know who’s dominant as well. And by focusing on who it is that I want to be able to be, do you know what I mean? So there is the ebbs and flows and this is where it’s like. I’m very much leaning more like as kind of like one of my philosophies with life.

I think it’s very much a case of as well, like there is just one wave and there are crests and there are troughs and it’s the part of the same thing, dude. Do you know what I mean? Like you have to take the crest with the trough, right? You can’t have a crest. You can’t have 

Ronnie Landis: the happiness unless you have the sadness.

Chris Dufey: It’s all in the one. So it’s very much coming back to, again, what the wisdom traditions have always pointed out for a very long time. Just being a case of this is a part of life. You’re going to have all of these ups and downs and that’s totally cool that that’s nature to life. That’s natural. Do you know what I mean?

And I think where we can cause so much suffering for ourselves is when we don’t. except that there are going to be these cross and these tres, uh, these crests and these troughs. And, uh, that has just brought so much more peace to me. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, this is super fascinating. Um, yeah, it feels very relevant to me too.

Like you mentioned having suicidal ideations. I noticed some of that energy kind of slip in. Weeks ago, even recently. And then like, it felt like at some point I just kind of popped through some, some energetic smog portal that was kind of compressing the energy of me and those around me and, um, yeah, just kind of leaving a little bit of a, like a dark shadow, but it, but it also felt like something was expanding and trying to grow through it too.

And then at some point it just shifted and then it was like right out of it, but had fully recognized. Like, going through it. It wasn’t like I was just out of it and that was it. It was like I recognized going through it and then coming out it felt more integrated, more refined, more molded, more deepened, more sovereign within myself and just shifted, fundamentally shifted.

And then I also realized like, okay, like, we don’t go back now. Like, now we, we, we, we know the lesson, so now I don’t want to take this for granted. Yeah. And I think that’s the, that’s like the underlining deeper point that I’m hearing also is like, now that I’ve had the, the, the experience of the down, like the relief down, like I’ve been down before, but whoa, I was even like to have that experience again, probably feels like even more like of a vulnerability.

Now that I’ve had that experience and I’m on the other end of it. It does create this, um, this, uh, like recognizing the fragility and the impermanence of life and recognizing the sensitivity of it. Um, I think it does create a certain, um, urgency is not the word, right word, but you know what I mean?

Certain gratitude, I guess. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah. I think there’s a certain value and savings to it that it brings like, I don’t want to forget that when I was in depression. that it felt like I was in a deep dark ocean and I was just keeping my head above water. Yeah. Any moment I was just going to be under and that was it.

And I don’t want to forget that because I think that gives me a certain value and um,

what’s the right word? It gives me a certain 

Ronnie Landis: I know it gives me a certain presence. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah, definitely. It’s like there’s a certain presence. There’s a certain value. There’s a certain appreciation. 

Ronnie Landis: Appreciation. That’s the word. Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: For not. And I think that’s a good thing because that’s when we don’t have taking things for granted.

So let’s say for example, on a very practical level then is in a loving relationship with my wife. I always want there to be curiosity. And I always want there to be appreciation. for just what is, for, for who that person is and for me to be able to fully accept my wife for exactly who she is and know that is exactly who she should be.

Ronnie Landis: Wow. 

Chris Dufey: That’s what I want. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s amazing. Yeah. I mean, this could be definitely like a teaching just on like relationships now that we’re kind of going into this, this area because I mean, you know, when it comes to health and particularly mental emotional health, which leads into physical health symptoms, the number one area is, well, it’s finances and also relationships, but most relationship issues, many relationship issues are a downstream of financial issues, at least many, right?

How, how money kind of has like a, a stranglehold on our minds and the influence of it. But appreciating somebody for who they are and being able to see somebody for who they are and not wanting them to change like that. That’s love. Like that’s actually love, right? Um, what does it take for somebody to be able to see through those lenses?

Chris Dufey: Uh, well, I actually think it’s not seeing the lenses, but it’s actually taking the lenses off and seeing that there is a lens and seeing what does this lens portray when I look through it? And what if I clean the lens? What do I see? What if I change the lens? What do I see? What if I keep the lens off?

What do I 

see? And being able to then, again, having a multi perspectival view on what reality is naturally gives us answers. Like for us to get insight, uh, you brought the alter ego effect up and this is something that I literally, Todd Herman taught me was, and I do this every single day now as a part of my journaling practice, is writing in the third person, right?

So I write to myself in the third person. And what I then recently learned why Todd is a hundred percent correct with Jimmy dishing this advice out to me was writing a third person creates this like subject object relationship between myself and what’s going on right here and here all around. And then us being able to have a multi perspectival view.

Is what leads to insight. So I can see things that I did not see before. And therefore, I can have a transformation that was not able to be had before. Simply from that as well. So I think it’s very much the case of, One, having the awareness, Oh, shit, I am wearing a lens. Fuck, totally forgot. Because it’s very easy to forget.

Do I mean? And that’s what doing some self awareness really does at the end of the day is to be able to see what’s going on, but then being able to go a little bit deeper and then understanding, well, then how do I have different views? And again, it’s like one practice, one use case scenario is journaling in the third person, for example, to me, another scenario, talking with a loving person that I know is going to give shit to me 

straight, 

right?

Because I believe that the only real way I can know what’s behind me. It’s by you telling me, right? And if someone says, Oh, but if you turn around, well then there’s still a behind me, right? There’s just, but the nature of the, what I can see, there’s going to be a behind us to what is going on. And one of the best ways to know what’s behind me is by you telling me, Hey dude, this is what’s going on behind you.

Do you mean, Oh, thanks for telling me that to me now I can do something about it as well. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. I’m really curious. What, what are your health optimization protocols? Like you’re, you’re obviously super fit, super healthy mentally, like your cognition, just like you’re, you’re a peak performer, like in all respects of the word in your life, especially to be able to, to hold five women.

Um, at any given time of all ages, like that in of itself requires like the optimal peak performance. Yeah. There’s a lot of vagina in 

Chris Dufey: our household. Like, yeah. Um, so thank you for the kind words. Uh, what is my physical optimization plan? Philosophy? How do you, 

Ronnie Landis: how do you take care of this, this physical body of yours?

The physical, mental and emotional, I should say. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah. Let’s start with the physical. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: And then let’s keep unpacking from there. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: Uh, someone recently said to me, it was at the gym and someone recently said to me, he goes, man, you’re in amazing shape. How do I get a body like you? And I was like, uh, don’t miss a workout for 10 years and eat how you’re supposed to.

Don’t. Jimmy, don’t screw up. And they’re like, Whoa. And I’m like, well, it’s, that’s the truth of it. Right. But how do you do that? Right. Right. And I was, I was very oval. I was obese. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. 

Chris Dufey: So someone can’t kind of, you know, Oh, you’ve always been in shape. Chris. No, I have not. Right. I have created this body and I’m going to own that fact of it.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: Right. I’m not going to palm that off. Oh, it’s like, it’s genetics. It’s not the case at all. Yeah. I fucking worked my ass off. Right. Right. But they’re like, you’re so disciplined. And I know that I am, but I think it goes beyond. And I think this is where it comes to a point of as well, getting in shape and staying in shape.

Right. It’s like 

Ronnie Landis: getting money and keeping money. 

Chris Dufey: Cool. Totally different things. But there is the case of going from discipline to identity. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Chris Dufey: Right. I know that I’m going to weight train after we finish today. I know that. I know that I woke up this morning at 6 a. m. after having a really shitty jet lag sleep that I went and did some cardio this morning.

Right? I didn’t question it. I just did it. Right? Because there is a certain level of ingrained identity that that that’s who I am. Yeah. That’s what I tell you. One thing I don’t think I’ve ever publicly said this. I think I’ve only really said this to like one of my partners. Um, and every morning in my journaling.

I asked myself a question, and that is, I will achieve what I want because. My most common answer to what I write down to, I will achieve what I want because, it’s just who I am. It’s just what I do. 

I am 

ingraining on a daily level 

that there 

is no friction behind it. There is no like, Oh, I’ve got to work hard for it.

No, it’s just who I am. It’s just what I do. Right? It’s the justness. That word just, you know, like putting that into that sentence, I find extremely powerful because it’s just what I am. Like you just, it’s, it’s who I am. It’s what I do. It’s just who I am. It’s just what I do. Suddenly there’s this ease that just like drops away from it.

It’s like you’re letting go of this baggage and hardness. And especially because for me, I know that I can, I I can step into the warrior archetype really goddamn easy, and I can play that role really well and just make shit hard, do you know what I mean? Like, I used to know that I was just pointing in the right direction, I will run through walls and I will make it happen if that’s what needs to happen, do you mean like, I will do that.

Um, and I’m very happy that I went through those processes and those experiences where I had to do that to know that, but what was very interesting was I had to put that warrior down. Mmm. So that I could pick another archetype, another identity up to then be able to continue on with my successes to continue on to be the person that I wanted to be.

Do you know what I mean? I know that he’s there. I know that I can flick the switch and turn him on when I need to, but I don’t need him. Do you know what I mean? Right now with so much of what I do. And so when it comes to the physical side of things, and I know people are probably wanting a bit more of a, like the nitty grittiness of like what actually really happens.

Um, I think the basic principles are really going to be, I, I don’t eat like an asshole. I eat the foods that I know that are best for me. And I very rarely stray from that because for me, the, the hangover of eating something that I know is not the best thing is not actually, it goes to something interesting.

I’ve realized. A little while ago, the hangover from eating something that I know isn’t the best thing for me. Do you know what I mean? Isn’t worth that momentary, um, happiness and I don’t use the word joy because I think joy is more related to doing things that you know are good for you in truth. So it doesn’t give me that momentary happiness because I know who I am, what I do and how I need to best show up.

Right. Yeah. But what was interesting was, and. I think this is, goes into a world that is in your forte. I get a dopamine effect. That’s right. From doing that, right? Where people would get a dopamine effect from like doing the actions, having the burgers and all that kind of stuff. I get the dopamine from not having it.

Ronnie Landis: Totally. That’s exactly right. That’s very well. That’s an astute observation. 

Chris Dufey: That’s what I found really interesting. That penny dropped for me and I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. And the only way I’ve done it is just simply through practice, right? So I believe anyone’s able to do that. Like you just re, you’re able to like, kind of like rewire yourself to be able to do that as well.

Um, I don’t think I do any, and this is the thing, like people really try and like, Oh, what is it that you do? Like what’s your training program and all this kind of shit. And I’m like, 

Ronnie Landis: yeah. Are you planning, are you, are you studying the metrics of your sleep rhythms and your brainwaves? 

Chris Dufey: I haven’t worn an aura ring for ages because I was just like, I don’t care for it.

Do you know what I mean? Like, because I don’t feel like, I don’t feel like I need to have that data tracking in that area of my life. Do you feel good in that 

area? 

Uh, no, because I have young children. 

Ronnie Landis: Right, 

Chris Dufey: right. So, so does it, so in that case But I know what to do. Right. See, in or, I’m not cheating on an oring at all.

I’m shitting on the people that constantly need that technical feedback where it’s like, no, I, I, I know I can kind of like, dare I say, lean on the intuitive side of things where it comes to what do I need to be able to do? So again, like when people like really trying to like peel back and they think there’s these secrets that I’ve got, like, look, don’t get me wrong as well.

I used to be a physique coach, right? So I used to get like, Literally, world champion models, Arab sheikhs, politicians, CEOs, like I’ve coached top people, right? And I did it myself to be able to compete as a physique competitor as well. So I’ve gone through that ringer of doing that. So I know there’s like things that I can tweak and do to be able to do it, but when people actually realize.

And my wife laughs about this all the time because she sees these questions come through and what people ask me and, and it’s just like, like you’re Ben 

Ronnie Landis: Greenfield or something. Dude, 

Chris Dufey: it’s the basics. Do you know what I mean? I eat to nourish myself. I train frequently and within intensity and I don’t overdo things.

Do you know what I mean? Um, I make sure that I take care of my sleep and there is good sleep hygiene. I’m Ben Greenfield. I very much ensure that my lifestyle, my stress management, those things are taken care of. I take some basic supplements. You brought the box of supplements that are in there. That’s what I take on a daily basis, dude.

Do you know what I mean? Like there’s five things in there. 

Do you 

know what I mean? Like it’s a malty, a fish oil, a zinc, a magnesium, and I think there was curcumin in there as well. All right. No, nothing. Nothing. Out of the ordinary. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Um. No peptides. No stem cells. I’ve used peptides for years.

I know how to use them as well. Like I can, I can go down that route and play those games as well, but it’s also like, that’s not the winning factor of it. Do you know what I mean? It’s just having the daily rituals and routines and showing up and doing those day in, day Day out. Yeah. When people aren’t willing to do that as well.

Ronnie Landis: So in other words, whatever you do, do it fully and do it consistently. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah. A hundred percent. Unless someone wants to get into really good shape, my advice will change. Sure. This will get a little nitty gritty, so we’ll jump in and we’ll jump back out. Right. And so let’s say someone’s like, I want to get sub 10 percent body fat.

I want to, do you mean have a decent amount of muscle on myself? I really want to look good. And it’s like, okay, I do believe in that case, sprint, sprint to get to that destination. Work your ass off. Is that because of thermogenesis? No, I think it’s because you need to like, you need to force your body to go through the adaptations where people just like half ass it right through, do you know what I mean?

People will get like, how many people right now? This could be you, the viewer and listener, right? Could be like, Oh, I’m still kind of in the same shape that I was last year, but I’ve been wanting to get in better shape. Well, you’ve half assed it. Do you not? It’s the truth. You’ve half assed it. If you had truly done what you needed to have done, you would have gotten the result at the end of the day.

Now, there is obviously a mindset part to what goes on as well. for us to do what it is that we need to be able to do. But if someone wants to get in really good shape, I say sprint, but then it’s very much the case of continue doing what you can see yourself doing for the longterm. Do you know what I mean?

Don’t try and like do these crazy diets where it’s going to give you a marginal little factor, then you’re not going to it’s actually going to make it harder and worse for you. So don’t do that stuff. Um, so that’s the physical side of things. Um, I’m waiting here the sauna and ice bath delivered to our place because I was doing that every day for years in Bali.

Um, and we’ve done it together in Bali. It was like, that was literally a part of my morning routine. I just feel great with that stuff. Um, does anything else come up with the physical side of things? 

Ronnie Landis: Well, I know that this might be more mental, but I know that you were into psilocybin float tanks. Yeah.

Chris Dufey: Yeah, let’s talk about that. Um, for quite some time I was doing a weekly float tank, uh, session and I, I was, at the time I was making my own mushroom psilocybin tea. So I’d make my own tea and I’d probably have, because I was buying the mushrooms wet, not dry. I didn’t really know exactly like the exact grammage of how many mushrooms I was taking, but it was between one to two grams.

And very typically I’d actually do a float tank with mushrooms on a Joe Dispenza meditation. Uh, that was a pretty awesome trio to be perfectly honest. Um, and that was fantastic. I recently I’ve gone back into doing float tanks and since moving back to Australia, I’ve got to be perfectly honest. Sorry.

Fuck, I’m just, I’m an open book. So I didn’t want to take mushrooms and have to drive a car. So driving a car on like Australian or American roads compared to, uh, do you mean taking mushrooms and jumping on a little bike going down some roads in Bali? Very different, right? Yeah. And so I didn’t want to drive a car still having what could be an effect, do you mean of mushrooms?

I didn’t want to do that. Um. And also, to be perfectly honest, I couldn’t get my wife to come pick me up because she’d be with our girls, so it was like, just the logistics of it, and I was like, do I get an Uber? That’s something I’m possibly will try, um, but what I also have experimented for a little bit recently was actually ketamine and THC together 

and doing some 

really in depth meditations and having a, doing a short period of time because that’s not a long acting period.

So I was like putting myself in a space where I could really get into meditation with those two substances with me and found that really powerful and helpful as well. Um, Then also on the flip side, I want to be very critical and skeptical of myself of like, what’s my cadence and what’s my calendar with use of such substances, ensuring that I don’t go too far down the rabbit hole and go like doing like, Oh shit, Chris lost his shit.

Do you know what? Don’t want that. So I’m, I’m very much wanting to be aware of like, what am I doing and where is it playing these sorts of things as well. Like, Uh, we can go down the rabbit hole of psychedelics if you want to. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. So since we’ve opened up the psychedelic rabbit hole, let’s, uh, let’s talk about the relationship between psychedelics and self mastery.

I think that that’s something that does, those two things don’t always get paired together. And for me, the reason I do, psychedelic or entheogenic plant medicine work is for that. So I’d love to hear what you have to say about it. I love that you 

Chris Dufey: asked this question, Ronnie. Um, I love that you asked this question because this is something I want to talk more about.

I want the world to know more about when it comes to this. I don’t see enough people talking about this sort of stuff because for me, people can do whatever the hell they want to do with themselves as long as they’re not harming other people, right? But for me, my psychedelic use is so that I can show up and better serve for the world.

Period. That’s the motivation behind it. Yeah. I’m not in it for the shits and giggles or anything like that. Like literally every single time I take psychedelics, there is a certain nervousness and respect and appreciation for like, it’s like, what could happen? I know, I know she could go. Funny, do you know what I mean?

Like it could go wrong and I want to have that appreciation always there at forefront of my mind. And especially when like recently, uh, I did five MEO again and. For me, it’s like the surrendering part, especially with that medicine, it’s like surrender, surrender, surrender. It’s just like letting go, letting go and being able to do that.

So I don’t have this like forcefulness of me trying to grip on for dear life when you know you’re not going to be able to hold on for very long and it’s only going to cause problems. So psychedelic use to mastery is very much something that I’m wanting to intertwine together and it’s the. When it comes to like the integration, like it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot in that space.

For me, integration is well, what are the learnings, the lessons, the insights, the perspectives that I’m able to take from that experience and literally apply to these different areas of my life as a father, as a husband, as an entrepreneur, as a friend, as a man, as all the labels I would like to put upon myself.

So, for me, it’s a case of very much understanding what can I do with this? Now that I’ve had this experience, what is it and how does unravel and how does it change shape or form who I am and how it is that I do these things moving forward? And that being the work, that’s the work, right? Fucking putting the toad pipe to my mouth and inhaling doing it.

That’s not the work. Do you know what I mean? That’s, that’s the rollercoaster ride where you just try and enjoy what you can do. Do you know what I mean? But the actual work is after it going through that integration process, um, and being able to learn what I can from it and not having to go back to it for things that I should have learned before.

Should have learned and applied. Right. Do you mean? Like it was Terrence McKenna that said like, do you mean once you get the message, put the phone down? Yeah. Yeah. Put the phone down, dude. Do you know what I mean? And I think we both know a lot of people that continue to pick up the phone when they shouldn’t be picking up the phone.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 100%.

About that, that, that, that, um, picking up the phone repeatedly, that can be applied to a lot of different things. You know, getting into a repeating relationships over and over because you haven’t integrated healed from the last one. You’re just doing the same old dance, you know? Um, in the, in the context of, uh, plant medicines or psychedelics.

Speak to the cautionary kind of tale of that, because that may not be obvious to everyone. 

Chris Dufey: This shit can fuck you up. Okay. Hard. Yeah. Like. I, I heard someone say there’s no such thing as a bad trip because there’s always like a learning or a lesson that can take from it as well. I’ve had a few bad trips.

I’ve, I’ve. Yeah. So my experience is I’ve had bad trips as in they’ve been extremely terrifying things that I’ve gone through, but I have come out of it with a very great lesson in learning and being like, Oh no, that was a positive. That was a net averaging up experience for me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But there’s people that have.

Literally lost their shit, you know what I mean? And have been harmed Badly Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually From these things as well, and so for me It’s very much a case of You have to respect What’s What you’re doing with these substances With these chemicals, with these medicines If you want to call it 

Ronnie Landis: So with that said, you know, one’s mental Stability, emotional stability Even their nervous system, physical Stability, like Can you just speak to that?

Chris Dufey: Every single time for me, there’s always a case of a ritual of have I put myself in the best position, especially when doing, Ayahuasca or 5 MeO or a high dose mushroom, something like that. I have gone through a period of making sure my diet is extremely clean, making sure I’m very limited and very conscious to the information that I’m taking in from outside social media, internet, people that I’m being around as well.

Going through abstinence of not ejaculating for a period of time before it. I’m wanting to have best strength with my chin, my energy. Uh, wanting to ensure that I’m in the best possible state in area, in every area that I possibly can going into that with a very clear intention as to what I’m wanting to get out with it as well.

Um, right. This isn’t psychedelics, but I found this experience very interesting for me where I had a good friend of mine in Bali. Ben. And, uh, he had this sidekick and he was like raving about her. He was like, so, and I was like, all right, cool, dude. I’ll, I’ll see. So I’m super skeptical, but cool. I’ll, I’ll do it.

I mean, I’ll open up as much as I possibly can. So like, let’s go. And I booked in, I was supposed to see her at Shady Shack. Do you remember Shady Shack? Yeah. I was supposed to see her at Shady Shack. She was going to come and see me, right? For the session. And before it, I journaled and I wrote down the questions I wanted her to be able to help guide me through and answer.

And something happened, she couldn’t make the session, right? She had to like postpone it. And so I was sitting there at this cafe, do you know what I mean, with my sparkling water. And it was this beautiful place, it’s very open, it’s gorgeous greenery, nature around. And I was like, fuck it. I’ll answer the questions myself.

And so I just sat there. I was just, I was in a really nice, calm state. It wasn’t rushed or anything like that. And I just started to answer the questions myself. And I felt like I got the exact clarity that I wanted from it. Amazing. Amazing. And I felt like it was because I had myself in the state with the intention of what I wanted that I could kind of like tap into something where I wouldn’t normally be able to tap into as well.

Ronnie Landis: If you were handing your power over outside of yourself. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah. And so I think that’s a case of like, yeah, for sure. Those substances, chemicals, medicines can very much do things that you can’t because a change of consciousness is the thing that’s, you know, Uh, do you mean like, there’s all sorts of animals that have been shown that they looking to change consciousness.

There’s some type of crow that tumble down roofs to be able to change their consciousness. Do you mean like dolphins suck on starfishes or something to be able to change, like, so there’s, it’s something that is, you know, Um, do you mean frequent throughout nature all over the 

place that 

we’re very much wanting to do this.

And especially in the, what’s coming out with our histories, humanity, 

Ronnie Landis: like the coffee culture, like tell me what that is. 

Chris Dufey: Totally. Yeah. Wanting to change on a state of consciousness. And I think when most people hear that, they’re thinking that we just want in a trip balls and like, I’m not a visual person.

Ronnie Landis: I don’t like visual. I don’t really get the ayahuasca ceremony, but I don’t like to be walking around seeing things. 

Chris Dufey: Yeah, I don’t. It’s for me. So it’s just this, it’s feeling exactly. Um, but yes, I very much agree that there is a very strong level of respect and discernment that needs to be applied when doing this stuff as well.

Yeah. And that’s my opinion for me. Do you mean others can fucking cowboy if they want to go for it? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, you can, you can, you can play in that realm and, and do that. I certainly have as well, but every time that I have, whether I’m at like a festival or something, I’m always doing some sort of deep alchemy within myself.

Even if I’m having the most amazing time, I’m still aware of the state. I’m aware of the moment, the energy, and, um, it’s held very responsibly. Even if I’m laughing, having a cathartic experience. It’s still held. And I think that’s the important thing is that these, these substances can teach you how to hold yourself with this onset of influxing energy.

It can teach you how to hold yourself if you’re, if you’re willing to, to learn, and that’s really your intent that you want to, you’re, you’re someone that wants to master their own human experience. Yeah. Yeah, you know.

Okay. Okay. So what is one thing that you would like to leave the audience with? Based on, and particularly based on this, this idea of life mastery. Assuming people that listen to this are on their own life mastery path, what’s something that you’d love to share with them? 

Chris Dufey: Well, to say, to talk to what you just said then, um, in a very broad general sense, the word bhikkhu in like a Buddhist term is to talk to anyone that is on a path of enlightenment.

So I like to refer to everyone as a bhikkhu because everyone’s on the path of enlightenment. Totally. Right? All right. Um, what I want them to leave with is a mastery of self love and for you to at least be aware and question, do you love yourself? How can you love yourself deeper? How can you fall in love with yourself?

What is it that the practices that are needed to be able to do those things? It’s just having that awareness. At least tingling in the background, um, so that you can have that be something that is a part of your mastery. Because I feel like if we have this mastery of wanting to love ourselves, there is a natural waterfall of goodness and truth.

And just, uh, a serving that comes from oneself to others that just radiates from self love as well. And that for me has been one of the hardest, most difficult, most needed journeys for myself is to feel worthy, is to feel enough and is to be able to say in myself and to know that it rings true that I love myself.

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful. Yeah. Fully agree with that. Comes back to self love. Seems to always circle back to that. Yeah. So, where can everybody find more about you? What you have to offer, your content, the whole shebang? Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. 

Chris Dufey: Uh, easiest place to go to is the Christopher Dufey website.

podcast, uh, or Christopher Dufault YouTube, all the good stuff’s there. That’s where I want to be able to share as much as I possibly can. The beauty of it is, uh, I’m in a position where I make no money from that stuff. I don’t want to have to make money from that stuff. I invest a lot of money into doing this.

Do you know what I mean? Like this trip cost me Do you mean money to be able to do? I’m not going to say a lot of money because that’s only, do you mean a term that we label things on, but that’s where I want to be able to share everything that I possibly can. I want to, I want to lay my heart out there and genuinely want to be able to leave a body of work that can help others.

And the Christopher Dufey podcast and you choose the best place for that. 

Ronnie Landis: Amazing. Thank you so much, brother. I appreciate you. Thank you, bro.