Ronnie Landis: Greetings, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Holistic Life Mastery Podcast Show. I am your host as always, Ronnie Landis. And I just got done listening to this week’s episode. And I have to say, what do I say? What can I say? This was absolutely incredible. You know, the interesting thing about being a podcaster, I don’t consider myself a podcaster.

A lot of people would call me a podcaster. I happen to be a teacher, a coach, an entrepreneur, a healthpreneur. that happens to have a podcast. So I thought I’d just clarify that. I just happened to have a podcast where I bring on some of the most incredible minds and hearts and spirits that span every spectrum of human development.

And this episode is with a dear brother of mine. His name is Andrew Daniel. A lot of synchronicity went into creating this episode, and we actually knew each other back in Los Angeles back in like 2011 or 12 when I was on the speaking circuit for the superfood, raw food, um, health, uh, movement, and he came to a number of my talks.

And we became quick friends and I was actually on his podcast in 2012 and we lost touch, hadn’t talked for a while. Then I get an email by his assistant and I didn’t recognize the name but it kind of clicked for me like, Oh, this is Andrew, this is Andrew Daniel. But he completely transformed himself, he was not the same person I remember.

He completely transformed himself, his career. He produced a really amazing book and I started digging into his work and I was really blown away. I, the testimonials from so many people that I actually know in the industry that were just raving about his work. We jumped on that we jumped on this this podcast call and this conversation goes Really deep into a lot of different areas, but we go really deep specifically into the areas of spiritual awakening practical spirituality And really his entire body of work, which is really really amazing.

It’s all about somatic perception or somatic awareness. And ultimately what the whole teaching is that your body stores all the memory patterns and signatures. that of all the emotional impacts that you have experienced throughout the duration of your life and he’s developed a modality to actually help people see what stories are playing out in their physical body.

That’s a really amazing thing to think about because usually in personal development work, especially if you’re doing like trauma work, you’re doing, you’re doing some sort of spiritual development practice. It’s not really obvious. what’s working, what’s not, you don’t necessarily have empirical, objective, reliable metrics to gauge your progress.

You, you really have to go completely internal and you have to go into deep trust and faith, which is good and important. However, it can be very challenging to know how to navigate. The spiritual personal development trauma healing space if you don’t have metrics that you can gauge your progress and know that you’re even going on the right the right track you’re going in the right direction so this is a really great conversation to illuminate that but we go so deep as as I do with everyone we go so deep into so many different areas This was one of my favorite conversations to listen back to and I know you’re gonna love it.

It’s uh, It’s a game changer for sure. So without further ado Let’s get ready to dump into this conversation with me and my friend andrew daniel. Enjoy Andrew Daniel, welcome to the show. 

Andrew Daniel: Hi Ronnie. Thanks for having me. 

Ronnie Landis: My pleasure, man. Um, it’s great to re meet you. As you said, before we hit record, we’ve known each other for many, many years back in the Los Angeles, SoCal personal development, holistic health community.

We haven’t seen each other. Well, we haven’t seen each other. We haven’t talked in, in many years. And I received an email from one of your assistants about being on the show. And, you know, as having a podcast, you get a lot of emails about potential guests. And my roster is usually so full that I don’t even have space to, to review potential guests, but then I, for some reason I opened up the link and I saw your name, I didn’t fully recognize the name, but I looked at a video and I was like, Wait a minute.

I know this guy, but the name, the name doesn’t feel familiar. And then I looked at some of your work and I was like, Oh no, I know I, this is Drew, but Andrew like, ah, okay. And I started looking at your work. I was really impressed, but. It was very clear that you’ve gone through quite a transformation from the work that you’ve been doing before.

I remember I was on your old podcast. I want to say like 2012, 2013, something like that. And I remember that actually, I remember that day. I remember that moment. I remember the apartment I was living in, in Koreatown in Los Angeles. Angeles and you were doing a lot of work with holistic sex at the time.

And then I look at your videos and your body of work is very different, very impressive, very near and dear to a lot of the, the psycho spiritual, psycho emotional and embodiment work that has built itself into the mosaic of my. Work as well. But I was really like, wow, this is, he, he’s like a professor now.

Like he’s like, like, uh, like a, um, like a real professor. I was like, wow. Okay. This is going to be interesting to reconnect with you and really to receive the wisdom that you’ve, um, you’ve integrated embodied over all these years. And really just to learn about your journey. In the work that you’re doing now, you released a book recently.

It’s, um, awaken to your true self, right? Yes, sir. And, uh, yeah. So let’s, uh, let’s just start there. Like tell me in the audience, what has been your journey since then? Cause you’ve gone through quite a transformation. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. Well, first, thank you for having me here. It’s great to reconnect. Yeah. Um, it has been quite a journey.

Uh, I’ve. I had gone through a reclamation of my birth name as part of my emergence, uh, out of my cocoon. I, I was teaching holistic sexuality and I had a pen name as a sort of, it was twofold. One, teaching sex publicly can be a little sketchy in many different forms. I was really young. I had no idea what I was doing.

The 

end. And I was suffering a lot from my childhood trauma. And so, taking on a new identity, That was still part of my name, but also something that I could create into, was very powerful for me at that time. Later on, I was able to move through that, and rather than creating something new, because my old wasn’t enough, my work became about subtracting, about stopping, about getting to that essence.

So at that time, I guess it would be about a decade ago, I don’t know. I was teaching holistic sexuality work and working with men and women around merging and rectifying the schism between the masculine and the feminine, men and women, sexuality and spirituality. Uh, at the same time too, I was very big into holistic health.

That’s how we met. I think we actually met at a lock in orange County the first night. And, uh, you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I don’t know, maybe it wasn’t your birthday. I think so. Yeah. Yeah, okay. And so, so there I was. I mean, I had long hair. I was just like a kid. And actually, you were kind of like, it was your birthday.

So you were like the celebrity of sorts. We barely talked for just a few minutes. But then later on, as I moved to LA and our circles intertwined, um, We got together a few times and so my interest in holistic health and healing, uh, that’s how we met through that, through the raw food community at that time.

And as my work progressed and I, Got into sexuality and all of this work. I had a really big breakthrough in my career. I was actually published by a company called Mindvalley. And this was about 10 years ago. And so that was, that was a huge breakthrough for me because my name was up there next to Abraham Hicks, Wayne Dyer, Eckhart Tolle, David Data, all these people that I had been studying before.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Andrew Daniel: And I was like, Oh my God, I did it. Like I made it. 

Ronnie Landis: Mm 

Andrew Daniel: hmm. And so it was very validating, uh, because most of my life I was rejected and ridiculed and I was ostracized and bullied and teased as a kid, I had warts, you know, I have a whole story, um, but at that time, I felt, I felt validated, it’s like, oh, I did it, like, this is, this is it, and then three or four months, three or four months later, I couldn’t afford rent, uh, renting a room anymore, not even a place, just a room in a, in a friend’s house, and then I started And so I was living out of my car, and that happened twice.

And so, this was very, this was very confusing for me. Because here I was, uh, after having a software company. So, my initial background, I had a software company. And I coded, uh, Myself, a physics and particle effects engine to create special effects. I did that at 18, 19 years old. So I had the software company.

I’m like, okay, I’m, I know I’m smart enough. Maybe I’m not the smartest, but I’m smart enough. I had a business. It had some success. I’ve been published here. I’ve had a few clients. I’ve learned a lot of these spiritual secrets and teachings of the universe and personal development, psychology, neuro linguistic programming, all of this stuff.

Yet, why was it that I couldn’t even afford rent? How could it be that after all of that, I was struggling so much? I was stuck even more, that my life in the material world was less functional, even though I felt inside I was more functional. And so I pretty much fell off the face of the earth I mean, I was wearing I was homeless twice sleeping in my car in Los Angeles I was going to a place called cafe gratitude and remember this cafe gratitude and getting their community meal for like the homeless which was like four or five dollars instead of ten or twelve and I I would, I would shower, uh, at Santa Monica beaches.

I would go swimming. It was actually quite wonderful going into the ocean. Um, but I was there not just showering after taking a swim, but that’s how I showered. Um, no, so I was clean and I was healthy and, uh, you know, I, I wasn’t. Reckless or destructive. I just didn’t have any income. I just had no money and at the same time my ego Uh, I I was really struggling with my ego because here it was.

All right, you got published You’re really smart. You you know this stuff. You had a software company and now you can’t even get it Get a an appointment for a job at Whole Foods as a cashier or waiting tables Okay. Well, you’re what you’re in your late 20s What have you been doing for the past seven years?

You have no job experience I was running a software company. They’re like, what? You know, you’re either way over qualified in that realm or under qualified because you, you know, never bus tables or anything like this before. So I really struggled with even getting a job, uh, getting clients. It’s really hard to.

Sell somebody your coaching services when you’re homeless But I was that delusional and I’m gonna be the first to admit it and it was why I was suffering it was why I was Struggling. I realized I was trying to fill my cup up by being of service Wow, that was so backwards Because later on my life, I realized that To be of true service my cup had to be full and overflowing and so there was no agenda There was no manipulation.

There’s no neediness codependence I could actually be of service rather than being of service to just meet my needs 

Ronnie Landis: You’re hitting some you’re hitting some codes right here. You’re hitting some chords with with myself and a lot of people listening right now 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah, it was I thought it was the right thing because people said, you know, give value give value serve serve serve But the way I was serving, the place I was coming from didn’t match that.

It just, it didn’t align. And even though on the surface I knew my shit, I mean, I, it’s like, I really knew my stuff. There, there wasn’t a congruency, even if people didn’t know it. A lot of people didn’t know I was homeless and I didn’t look like it, except maybe some of my clothes that were literally falling apart.

I remember it was so bad, Ronnie. And, and I had some videos of this because I knew it wouldn’t be forever. It was just like, here’s, here’s a set point in my life, documenting it. I have a video of when I’m sleeping in my car that I just left the Salvation Army to buy a new sweater because my current one, as I show in the video, had holes in it, it was literally threads falling apart.

And I went in there to get a used, sweater for 13 and not just one, but both of my debit cards were declined. And it was humiliating. I didn’t have 13 to buy a used sweater to replace the one that was literally my one that was falling apart. Now I’m not a victim to this. Um, you know, these were the results of my choices and I own that.

However, it still sucked. Uh, it still was hard. It still was fairly rock bottom. I mean, I, I could have gone a few, um, steps further, maybe being on drugs or literally on the streets. Um, but I wasn’t because I was into health. So I was literally buying like gluten free bread. And organic peanut, uh, almond butter.

And that was, that was like my meals. So, even when I was homeless, I still managed to eat healthy. So, I Yeah, I totally get that. So, when people say, oh, I can’t afford it. I’m like, you have no idea. Um Because, yes, it is expensive, and if you want some of the, you know, fancy stuff, it is, you know, it does cost money.

There is a way. Where there is a will, there’s a way. And that’s all I had, was a will. So, I was going through this, this whole experience, and it was very humiliating. Um, I had some really, uh, beautiful encounters. Being out in the world, I met people. Um, I was invited to gatherings. And it just wasn’t working.

It just was not working. Uh, Los Angeles, whether you’re going there to be a, in the music industry, the movie industry, whatever industry you go to L. A., um, everybody’s going there from wanting to manifest their dreams in a certain way. And there is also, uh, a new age of spiritual community that, that, We were involved with in some sorts of ways.

And that was, that was two fold for me. One, it was really amazing to be in a group of like minded people that all got it. And it really exposed me to a lot of wonderful modalities in people. However, I eventually realized that, and this may be hard for some people to hear because I know some of the people listening are probably these people, and I was one of these people too, that the same Hollywood narcissism actually showed up in these communities.

And I was that, you know, I was looking, how do I make it? Um, things were about me and advancing my career. Um, And so these things were, I was like, wait a minute. I thought we, I thought we were, I didn’t know this at the time. Right. But it’s like, I thought we were spiritual. I thought we were supposed to be on ego, but all these people seem to be really into themselves, literally thinking they’re gods and goddesses incarnate on earth.

I mean, I mean, Ronnie, literally, like I understand archetypes. I work with these spiritual energies. But these literally were women wanting to be worshipped everywhere they went. And I was like, wait a minute, like, there’s something off with this. They’re, they’re, they’re on to something, but they’re off of something.

Mm hmm. And one of the biggest things was fantasy. I realized a lot of people, including myself, were caught up in a fantasy. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Andrew Daniel: And it was a fantasy, I think, for many of us with the best intentions. But the problem with fantasies is that are not real. And when you’re operating your life and business from a fantasy, it’s really hard to To go from something that’s unreal to manifesting things that are real in time and space in the physical world.

And that was one of the biggest things. I knew all of this stuff up here. I was living in this fantasy in my mind that, Oh, look how great I am. Look at all I know. I know these spiritual truths. I know business. But then I looked at my bank account. I looked at the people around me, which were very few. I looked at my home, which was my car.

And I’m like, something’s off. I don’t know. I’m lying to myself. Something here isn’t working. And eventually that led me to the work that I’m doing now of essentially the biggest realization was an evolution of what I just said is that I knew all of this stuff up here in my head, in my mind. But it wasn’t in my body.

I didn’t have this embodied. I knew it up here, but the embodied wisdom, and when I say embodied, I literally mean the way that my hands moved, the way that my elbows were, the way that I walked through the world, literally, did not match the image I had of myself in my mind. And when I saw my own body moving in these ways, I was face to face with all of my shadow material.

And that was the start of my transformation. 

Ronnie Landis: Thank you for sharing that. I, I mean, as you’re talking, I get so many goosebumps, not only because I observed the same thing and, and continue to, and it’s actually a lot of what I find myself talking about, um, in podcasts on other podcasts, it just kind of bleeds its way through like this, um, the, the context and the framework that I use oftentimes is.

This luciferic impulse. And so if we were to look at it from that perspective, I don’t mean luciferic, like in the classical theological, like Lucifer, the entity, although that that’s a whole rabbit hole in of itself, but it’s a particular archetypal impulse that Rudolf Steiner, the great mystic, he actually bore this out, this idea of the luciferic impulse and the harmonic impulse.

And them being two sides of the same coin. And the Luciferic impulse is essentially fantasy. It’s this very ungrounded, very airy, very out there, as we would associate like the new, the extremes or the shadow side of the new age, which is all fantasy, right? It’s all just like fantasy projections. And it’s very self serving.

And then the Aramonic is more materialism. Right. And we could kind of see how this is playing out in our world at large. And, um, that was actually a revelation for me too, because like what you’re sharing, I also, I also encountered some of that within myself. I still am managing some of those impulses and trying to reign them in and trying to structure them into like the 5d and meeting in between in the 4d where Where enlightenment and very grounded practicality, pragmatism, those two things meet and merge and, um, have true utility.

And so I just wanted to say like, I really resonate and relate to everything you’re saying, and I really appreciate it, especially as a setup for this conversation, because this is, this is such a, it’s a huge issue when you, when you do have all of this very real knowledge. And it’s not translating in your physical reality.

And that, that creates a, uh, a distress within the nervous system that actually creates a somatic stress response. And that’s a very hard thing to navigate.

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. The, the dissonance between our image, you know, so I, I refer to this as our, uh, our image, our mask, our persona, and even a narcissistic image. And When we see ourselves as one way, but we’re faced with a reality, a physical proof reality, um, because, you know, you could have reality and proof that isn’t material, um, which is important.

But when you actually get the feedback from the environment that says, Oh, wait a minute. I thought I was a really nice guy. How come this person is reacting so negatively to me? Or, in my work, seeing myself on video and saying, Oh, I thought I was a nice guy. I’m actually, I’m actually being passive aggressive.

I’m actually manipulating. I’m seducing. I had no, I do no idea. I’m, I was doing any of it, but I could see it. And so then you’re up against that dissonance of. Um, okay, all these spiritual teachings of love, light, rainbows, and unicorns that I thought was great that I’m supposed to be doing is not matching up.

This is very disorienting. This is very confusing. 

Ronnie Landis: Disorienting. Yeah.

Okay. I feel like there’s so many, there’s so many threads on there. So I guess my question to you is that embodiment work, what, what exactly is that from your lens, from your framework, and maybe more to the point, what was it that you did to help you become more embodied? 

Andrew Daniel: Great question. So let me start off with, My, let’s just start off with what it is that I’m doing now.

Yeah. Because that will give us a good, a good framework. So what I do, what I founded is something called Cine Somatics. Cine coming from cinema and also the Greek Kino of movement and somatics of the body. So the work that I do essentially now is. I use video to film people’s movements. And then we play that video back, and I reflect back to them through myself and through the video, all of the unconscious shadow material, stories, myths, archetypes, blocks, traumas, that are running their life, but not just by talking about it by the body.

And I’m not doing it from a heady body language analysis. I’m doing it from symbolic feeling based awareness. And so that’s the lens of the work that I’m coming from of understanding that embodying Something isn’t just daily practicing it. It actually means when I say literally I don’t mean California Valley girl, not literally.

I mean literally these stories and archetypes and body they hold space in your body and affect the way that you move and when you move This data, this symbolic subconscious data literally gets conveyed to the space of really a very basic example for people listening or watching to understand this is body language.

You know, you just see somebody and you get an impression about them just on the way that they appear. Well, this is that times like 10, 

Ronnie Landis: 000 

Andrew Daniel: because there’s data. It’s not just. the, the orientation of their arms across their body. There’s actually information being conveyed between all of us, all of the time.

We have these different energy centers. We have, uh, physical centers, uh, mental centers, emotional, uh, centers that are communicating this all of the time. And so what made the difference for me was witnessing for myself in my own body, The difference between the image of who I thought I was and the reality of how I was showing up in the world.

And through the, through the embodiment work and the video work, that’s how I discovered that dissonance. That’s how I discovered, oh, this, this how I’m seeing myself here on video of my body. That’s the reality of what’s actually creating the results of my life. of this initiates it. The mind and emotions super important.

But if the body has a different somatic definition of making money, of giving, receiving, being kind, generosity, wealth, abundance, then what’s up here, you’re going to get Very confusing results in your life and the most simplest way to describe this is, have you ever wondered why the harder you try to do it right, the worse things get?

Ronnie Landis: Totally. This is, this is a very important analogy in sports. I grew up as an athlete, so that’s a, that’s a very important performance insight. The harder you try, the more you force. The harder it is and the more likely, more likely you are to either injure yourself or slip up or, or misperform. Um, you can translate that to every area of life.

It’s the same truth. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. So now, now take that. Let’s go a step further. And if we understand that, okay, we’re trying harder to let’s say be a good girl or a good boy. You know, these are our fundamental things. I want to be a good girl. I want to be a good boy for daddy and mommy. It’s really this child or God or whoever it is, you know, we’re, we’re morally aligned.

We want to do things right. What happens Ronnie, if we have that backwards? What happens if our definition of being good and right, isn’t? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, so definition versus our our mental deafness. 

Andrew Daniel: Exactly. And, and so what happens is, um, if you think, for example, giving and martyrdom, they can look very similar, but they have completely different results.

And so or or receiving right people say I have trouble receiving well, what do you think receiving is well show me Well, then they’ll be shut down. They’ll be afraid maybe there they feel attacked And so the body actually does has its own definition for these things in life And so when we use the same word, but it means something different in our mind.

We’re saying. All right, let’s be good and then The energy and wiring of our nervous system does that thing that we’re sending that command to be good, or to do it right, or to do better, but our So, when body definition is backwards, we’re going to have something called reversed results. And this is something I call reverse, uh, reverse wiring.

The nervous system, the internal definition system between the somatic self and then this mental self, if they’re reversed, it’s literally going to be the, um, the result, reversed results in your life. The more you try to do good. The worst things get and so it’s really simple. All right, we’ll do it wrong.

What happens if you start doing it wrong? Well, you start oftentimes getting better results. It’s like, you know, I studied dating and relationships early on And one of the things that they teach a lot of men who you would call a nice guy, they would say, um, you know, stop being nice. Well, here’s the thing.

It is actually an amazing quality for a man, incredibly sexy to be kind and generous, right? But nice. What happens is that we find out that they’re not really being nice. They’re perhaps. Uh, manipulating or they’re insecure and they’re, um, trying to buy or barter love and attention to prove themselves, uh, to rescue, you know, to be a white knight, all of this stuff that exactly performative.

And yeah. Opposite because it’s performative. Exactly. It’s coming from that ego place and it’s reversed. And so this is something I learned really early on. It’s like, okay, well, what happens if I stop being nice? Oh, actually they trust me more. Why does, why, why do women trust me more when I’m being less nice?

I’m just telling them the truth that I might not like, like that outfit, or I might not like this food and I want to go here instead. I’m Oh, I have this all backwards. The higher value here is honesty, courage, confidence, integrity, masculine safety. It’s not being needy, manipulating and all of this other stuff.

But when we grow up with these incorrect definitions in our mind, we think we’re actually being nice when in reality we might be manipulating. 

And 

so, and so, and then so the cynosomatic work, what that does is we actually demonstrate that in the body. Because if we talk about it, you just say, yeah. Ronnie.

Yeah, you’re a nice guy. Okay, great. Whatever it is. Oh yes, you know how to run a business. Oh, you know how to perform at a very high level. Alright, let’s see your body’s definition of this. Okay? And then you show us, and it’s like you literally see on video, shut down, closed off, afraid burdened, and it’s like, wait a minute.

That doesn’t look high performing and expansive. That actually looks the opposite, and then so that’s part of the diagnostic, but then the remedy is also through the body. So, this, this is a, I guess an intro to that concept of that reverse wiring and how the body’s definitions, when they vary, uh, can create a lot of confusion and suffering.

I mean, this is brilliant. 

Ronnie Landis: And this, this, this explains so many, So many different personal development and trauma informed frameworks, you know, I’m thinking of like Brene Brown, right? Her whole thing is about becoming authentic. And that’s what I’m hearing from you. Essentially, what you’re saying is that we’re our whole the whole goal, essentially, is to become truly authentic, and I would use the word integrated, right?

As a plus to that authentic and integrated. And otherwise you can’t really truly be embodied because to your point, you’re not actually inhabiting your body or the, the communication between your neuromuscular system, the nervous system, the, the, what I, what I actually heard in my language, what I heard is that the, the trauma imprints that have their own crystallization, their own life.

Essentially, it’s almost like becomes an entity left unchecked in the physical body. So it has its own communication. And so what I’m hearing from you is that the, the trauma most likely that’s embedded in the physical body is communicating itself in like Carl Jung says, until you make the unconscious conscious.

It’s always seeking to become conscious. And so it does that through the body, no matter what your mental framework or, or belief system is. 

Andrew Daniel: And that’s, I actually have that quote in my book because it’s exactly what we’re doing. You know, it’s a form of lucid shamanism because we’re actually making the unconscious conscious.

We’re taking the shadow material that’s visible through the somatic data and putting it up on screen in your own body for you to see. So we’re taking this stuff. As he said, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you’ll call it fate. Right? Right. And this is, people think this is their fate.

And so this is one of the reasons too, people can come in and it’s like I, I am predicting their future. It’s like I’m psychic maybe, but I think my definition is just that I can see the patterns. If you keep being narcissistic and shut off, and making your life about you, and afraid to receive love, and to surrender, this is going to be the results you’re going to get in your life.

And so people come in, I’ve never met them, and I get them moving for about five minutes. I know more about them and their life than any of their therapists, their family, or their friends. All of this stuff gets revealed. They don’t have to talk about it. It’s all revealing itself through the energy in the body.

Ronnie Landis: Wow. Through the nonverbal communication. Yeah. Which is, 

Andrew Daniel: which is also, which is also really powerful because oftentimes the ego gets really engaged when we’re talking. How many people do you know? Yeah. How many people do you know that say, Oh, uh, I go to my therapist and I basically, you know, can manipulate them.

I tell my sad story and they just, you know, they buy it, you know, I’ve heard people literally power tripping over how they’re pulling, uh, the wool over their therapist’s eyes. You know, like it’s some, some strategy. And even if we’re not doing that on purpose, our egos are very good at conning ourselves of tricking us.

Ronnie Landis: That, that’s it. Well, that, that way you should, I just want to, I want to, I want to go into that with you. Yeah. That is the crux of the matter, isn’t it? Absolutely. Absolutely. I know for me, you know, you mentioned lucid shamanism, plant medicines have been a huge, a huge pathway of mine. Not so much this, I, it, I do, I do different immersion work with private clients and take myself through different journeys periodically when I feel called to, but there was a stretch of time where different plant medicines, particularly ayahuasca ceremonies were a huge initiatory pathway for me and my shamanic path.

And man, do you, do you find out things about the kaleidoscope of your psyche that, uh, You know, I, that reveal a lot of very uncomfortable truths, but then, but then, but then the whole thing is like, how do I integrate that into 3d real time? And that’s the challenge many of us have on the medicine path and just in day to day life.

So the piece you just mentioned about how we can self manipulate ourself, almost like as a coping mechanism, that’s the point I wanted to get to is that. It feels like it’s a coping strategy to do so most of the time. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah, it’s, it’s, these are all these ego survival strategies. The ego will say things like, Oh, you want safety?

Well, let’s have more control. If, if we control more, I’ll keep you safe. And it’s the exact opposite. The reality is the exact opposite. You know, you, it’s, it’s about surrendering every time I see somebody who thinks that by controlling more and more and more in their life, they’re going to have safety and joy and everything they want.

It’s the opposite. I’ve never seen it work in the long run, maybe in a moment, maybe if there’s something horrendous happening, you know, that’s why their survival coping mechanisms, they serve a purpose. Then 20 years later, um, you know, they’re holding us back. And so there’s one more thing I want to say with this.

You talked about the integration part of these plant medicines, so the lucid shamanism work that we’re doing, so I want you to imagine that kaleidoscope of your psyche being revealed that was hidden away. Now, imagine that same, same advanced level of revelation while you’re conscious. 

Ronnie Landis: Yes. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. Now, now there’s a couple of things going on with that.

One is with the plant medicines, they’re beautiful teachers and you’re, you’re, you have control up until you take it and then you surrender and it takes you where it’s going to take you right now. You can fight it, but good luck, right? Um, so you, you’re at choice. You’re not a victim because you choose to do it.

However. Bye. Through the process, it’s, it’s showing you, you’re a bit more passive, not completely, but more so. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s like watching a movie. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: And experiencing it at the same time. Right, 

Andrew Daniel: yeah, exactly. So, for a lot of people who are very defensive, who are very afraid, who are unable to consciously surrender and let go, it can be very, very powerful, and it can be a great way to do it.

The trouble is, of exactly what you said, Integrating that, embodying those revelations, that wisdom, and regrounding that metaphysical download, that insight into the practical, uh, physical world. So, in the work that I do, here, it’s kind of the flip. It’s like the same path, but almost like, uh, flipped. Where the person is at choice the entire way.

So, I can’t force them to go. There’s nothing that’s going to carry them along. They have to be willing to surrender, to make a new choice, to stop, to let go, to feel, to feel, to feel, to go deeper and deeper and to feel and let go. Did I say feel enough? To feel. Feeling is absolute paramount. And so, that.

That process, that process, along with the feedback from me and the video of the actual visual, emotional, and energetic mirror of not just the shadow material, but the light material, all of the glory and light and gifts and beauty that you are, face to face with both of those, it can be extremely confronting, extremely terrifying.

In the space that I hold, I take people through that process and journey, so it’s, it’s a lot more challenging and confronting for people. However, the big difference is that because you’re conscious and you’re at choice the entire way, you’re integrating as you go. You’re conscious and unconscious are together.

You’re getting the symbolic data, but it’s, it’s, it’s related to something real and practical in your life. Your bank account, your relationship, your spouse, your health, your career, whatever it is, your family. So, the integration happens as you go in that period. There’s stuff afterwards too, because it could be just a lot in a few hour session.

So this is going to be the difference is that it’s, um, it’s much more advanced and it requires a, uh, a much higher threshold of courage and a willingness and choice and being willing to be confronted in a certain aspect. Again, no diminishing at all of the other. Um, But the plus side is that all of that wisdom and learning you’re getting consciously in real time, 

Ronnie Landis: real time, in real time.

And, you know, as we know, with plant medicine or psychedelic and theogenic substances, one of the telltale cards of it is that They dissolve boundaries, which to your point is probably why they’ve made such an emergence or re emergence in our modern world, because we are so bound by our psychic constraints, our conditioning, our childhood traumas, stories, monologues.

Um, you know, it’s, it’s incredibly deep and profoundly vast when you realize how much. Not just, not just of this lifetime, how much conditioning that we’ve adopted or taken on, but of past lives too. And, you know, that’s a whole rabbit hole in of itself, but just the epigenetic reality of how, how this has all built itself into our psychic structure.

And so that’s one of the, the very attractive and also one of the very frightening aspects of the psychedelic kind of, um, portal, but, and I mentioned that just as a context. And it’s also in the zeitgeist right now with legalization, all that it’s, it’s, it’s an aspect of reality that we all get to understand.

But, but I really like, you know, when I’ll do, let me just say this, since I’m, I’m ranting on it, the word psychedelic essentially means mind manifest. So when I use the word psychedelic, I’m not even necessarily saying it has to be induced by an external substance, because I think that’s almost like the permission slip that we, We are given to be able to access these non-ordinary states of consciousness.

And that’s kind of what I’m hearing from you is that this is a modality that you’ve created, discovered. I wanna go deeper into that to help people access these non-linear aspects of their own consciousness, but in a linear timeline. . 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: Which is really important. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. There’s, I, um, this is so good.

There’s a bunch of stuff I wanna talk about. Cool. Um, from what you just said. So, the, the, the basic, everything I just said is, is a bit of actually just the beginning and surface level of the work that I do. We deal with dream work. We deal with, um, taking people into altered states without substances, just through this work.

Uh, uh, quantum field effect. I don’t like to throw words around because it gets just so diluted and overused. But we’re really bringing through the stillness, through the silence, through the dream. the stilling of the body through movement, which is the irony, the quieting of the mind through that somatic meditation, and then bringing people into these states.

And I really want to tell this story because you talked about the epigenetics and how the stuff gets passed on. Um, This is cool because I, you know, some, some shows and podcasts and people I can talk about, you got to keep it a little clinical, uh, but here we can actually get into some of the, uh, the esoteric.

Yeah. So 

let me, if I can share a story, um, that is just that really blew my mind and it was very impactful for me, uh, of a client. And so without, without specific details, I was, I had a session with a client, we were maybe a few months into our work, and I was doing a cynosomatic process with him. But I was also going into this healing state, a quiet state, a feeling symbolic based state where time shifts a little bit, you know.

And in this place what happens is when I watch people from this place in the movement, I’m tuning in. in a very specific way. What happens is I actually start to see similar stuff you would see when you look at somebody when you’re high or something. I’m seeing these things kind of shifting in their face.

I’m seeing this morphing in the face. I’m seeing their energy field fluctuating. And, uh, you know, for some people, I know this sounds absolutely crazy, but, um, I don’t believe it myself, but I experienced it. Um, like this is crazy. This can’t be real, but I experiencing, I experienced it. I see it and I work with it and it works.

So, uh, yeah, it’s beyond belief. It’s just a direct experience of these mystical. And that’s really the advanced part of my work is, um, leading people through a spiritual awakening process towards enlightenment in these actual mystical experiences. Um, it takes a while because it’s really hard to reach those states, uh, while you’re in suffering.

And so a huge portion of the work that I do is to get people out of suffering, uh, and this ego, egoic grasp first. Uh, and we do that through the body, like I’ve been saying, rather than just concepts and theory. So back to the story. So I’m working with this client in this sort of space.

The symbolic data that I’m getting, I’m getting these images, um, he, what I’m seeing through his movement, right? So he’s doing a specific movement and this is conveying data. The, the data that I’m getting is it looks like he’s, he’s on a precipice overlooking a valley and, um, there’s mountains in, in this valley.

But at the bottom is this village, but the village is ransacked. The village has smoke. There’s fire. No, it’s just been. Ransacked and pillaged and the feeling he was having was absolute terror. You know, just imagine coming back from a happy journey after months coming over the mountain to your village and looking below and seeing everyone you know and love dead or gone places on fire, you know, just.

terror, right? And his whole body was feeling this. And so I was like, Whoa, really potent. And so the work I do, um, it’s, it may be past life. It may not be, it may be a metaphysical esoteric thing, or it may be the, the mind’s interpretation of it. I have my own personal opinions. Um, but it really doesn’t matter because it’s real.

It’s there is something, whatever it is and why. isn’t as important as the fact that it’s there and it’s actually helping the client. 

Ronnie Landis: Yes. Yes, 

Andrew Daniel: and so whatever it was I was like, okay, this is what i’m seeing and so I guide the person through the process and they’re having You know tremendous healing tremendous breakthrough facing and feeling and penetrating this terror Understand that that terror wasn’t caused by our session that terror was living within that person for how many decades?

And so what we’re doing is actually having them face and feel and move through this stuff and integrating it in a safe container So it no longer runs them Um, so I’m like, great. This was pretty freaking cool. That was awesome. And he’s like, you know, crying and you know, all this stuff. And he had a huge breakthrough.

Well, the story doesn’t end there. You know, that sounds cool and everything. So a few weeks goes by and I have all of this on video. My sessions are all recorded for clients to review for safety, for everything. So there’s, there’s evidence here. Okay. So he comes back a few weeks later and he says, Hey, Andrew, you know, that session we had, where you told me about that village and everything like, yeah, I show that to my sister.

Now he’s in his middle age, you know, he’s later in life. And so as a sister, parents, grandparents, all that, he says, remember that session? Well, you know, that part where you talked about the village and all that stuff you were seeing. So, yeah, he says, I showed that portion of it to my older sister. As soon as you started describing what you were seeing, she starts crying.

What was she like? Offended by it. Like, upset by it. Like what? And when, when you finished talking and she, she finished watching it. You know what she said to me? She said X Um, what he just said is literally the stories our grandma told us when we were children about the war, uh, between China and Japan.

That she was a part of 

Ronnie Landis: wow. 

Andrew Daniel: And I, I mean, I started crying. I got shivers. He was crying shivers. He didn’t tell me this. You know, believe it or not, I don’t care. It was something that I saw firsthand of not only how this, you know, how powerful this is, but you talked about the epigenetics, you talked about this stuff traveling through.

So not only was this something that affected him generationally, it was in the genetics. This was literally passed down. Through the genetics and science shows this even the brand. I think it’s seventh generation It’s literally based on the idea that what we do Affects seven generations after us, 

Ronnie Landis: right?

That’s not just like a cute Native American like quote Yeah, 

Andrew Daniel: it’s really in the genetics and then you know, they’ve done all these studies. They see the genes turn on and stuff So this is what we’re doing in the work. We’re working at this epigenetic level. There’s even some deeper stuff that we can talk about later.

But, um, it was just, it was just incredible to see that this stuff is not just theory. There’s an applicable, applicable, practical, valuable, Demonstration of this that actually helps people. And so it’s not just this healing. So Ronnie, we don’t just, it’s not just dealing with trauma and having, having people be happier.

This stuff gets in the way of people’s income. This, this person went on to, to get like multiple zeros. Um, and it’s just, just tremendous success story. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay. I got to ask you this then. So, you know, this gets me really excited. I had no idea we were going to get into this type of territory, but. I’m happy we are.

And think about all the people that were raised or went through the depression or whatever version of a depression that they went through in human history in the last hundred years or whatever it is, like from the epigenetic transference perspective, and also understanding in the research on epigenetics, that the, the, it goes by by generationally.

So our grandparents pass over a predominant amount of the genetic Memory signatures, I think is the most accurate way to to say it, the memory signatures by generationally like that. That’s an interesting aspect. What do you 

Andrew Daniel: mean by by by generationally? I 

Ronnie Landis: mean, it skips over a generation. Oh, Not all of it, obviously, but a predominant amount, like, like, for example, like character traits, like I, I have certain character traits from my grandmother that are much more pronounced than my mother.

Now I have certain adopted behavioral traits from my mother. Yeah, which I got to really see from an addiction perspective and what I would call kind of a karmic perspective When I went to visit my mother a couple weeks ago. I was like in my face. I was like, yeah But those were adopted behaviors that translated into certain addiction patterns, but I have certain characteristics and traits within just my soul signature or my personality From my grandmother that are much more pronounced.

So I say that thinking about the, the money wound, if you will, and the, the kind of dichotomy that a lot of us have when it comes to the, the subject of money and thinking of people that were, that went through the depression. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah, it’s the money thing, as you could imagine through my story, uh, has been a huge portion of my life also being an entrepreneur and so, and for so many people, especially myself included.

And it isn’t it? I, and I think maybe you can relate. I mean, you tell me you’re, you’re dude, you’re, you’re brilliant. I mean, I’ve seen your books. They’re huge and they’re comprehensive and complete. You synthesize. I mean, you’re like, if your intelligence was the number one deciding factor of your success in life, you would be.

Top of the top. Thank you. I appreciate it. So it’s a compliment. But at the same time, right? We’re like, but wait a minute. How come I’m not at the top of the top? Or maybe you weren’t at some point. 

Ronnie Landis: No, and I’m and I’m not in this moment, you know, all things being fair. And I’m happy to discuss that. I did an episode.

I released an episode when this comes out a number of months ago with a brother of mine, Mike Bledsoe, and the whole episode was actually about healing the money wound. And it turned into a therapy session where I basically start talking about my kind of historical journey with money and some of the challenges that I’ve been through and how I’ve kind of reframed, this is really good, how I’ve, how I reframed my My attitude towards the situation.

So in other words, how I became, um, how I was able to respond to the situation, the situation being money, and to assume like control of my internal state in reflection to the external money situation, but. So that, so that’s good, like to be able to control my internal state regardless of my external situation.

Andrew Daniel: Yes. 

Ronnie Landis: The next level though, to, to what we’re talking about in your work is that, okay, great. That’s amazing. But the external situation had not changed until I changed something, not just internally, but how I was operating externally. 

Andrew Daniel: And that’s, that’s that perfect mirror with the. video movement work where it’s literally like, okay, how do we know?

And this is the thing. It’s, you know, imagine, imagine if you will, a world where, Instead of having to spend three decades of your life on a path to see if it works, if what you have internalized is actually the thing, 

you could 

do that in 10 minutes. And the way you know is through the way your body moves.

That’s the first way you externalize it. What I love the most, uh, of the, what example I love the most is writing. So you have a thought, It is intangible. It exists, but it only exists in this. in material context. The first and easiest and simplest, most powerful way to begin that manifestation from non material to material is writing.

Or you could speak it as well. Um, I find writing to be very powerful because it involves more movement. Um, but you literally take something that didn’t exist and in some form, through writing or speaking it, you can You, you make it one step closer into reality. 

And 

so this is the way to look at the movement stuff.

Is that, Your movement is the part of your holographic being that is in the same level of existence as the external material world. That’s what you need to line up. You need them all lined up. But if that physical one isn’t lined up, you’re not going to have those physical results to match it. 

Ronnie Landis: Right.

Because we’re dealing with a physical reality. Exactly. 

Andrew Daniel: And, and, you know, in, in the New Age community, a lot of judgment. Yeah. And in spiritual communities, there’s a lot of judgment against the material and the human experience. They’re trying to ascend the suffering, all of this stuff. In my book, I have a chapter, um, that’s titled, The Spiritual Path is Failing You.

Now it’s, it’s, it’s the seeking and ascending that’s failing you. It’s not the, it’s not the idea of spirituality. I mean, everything we’re doing is spiritual here, but this is what I assert. Your humanity. And trying to bypass and escape from and avoid or overcome your human experience, your human ness, your humanity is, is impossible.

It’s a direct and violation of the truth. The heaven and the earth. The kingdom of heaven is on earth. It’s embodied in my flesh. I mean, this stuff, I mean, we’ve been told this, you know, for, for millennia. We’re actually finding out that this is a little bit more literal, um, than we thought. 

Ronnie Landis: Yes. 

Andrew Daniel: Which makes it more practical too.

Ronnie Landis: This is so good. And not to get like theological, but I’m going to, I’m going to pull out a very important quote that really came up for me in 2020 and 2021. I really meditated deeply on this. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world that he did not exist. Right. And okay, first, like, yeah, so like, so, so, so however you want to interpret that I would interpret it as the shadow.

The greatest trick the shadow or the ego ever pulled was to convince you, I, that it does not exist. So what I’m hearing from you and what I know to be true is that To come into our humanity, we have to bring that aspect of ourself to the table. We have to learn how to relate, how to conversate, how to bring all parts of us into the fold together.

Otherwise, there’s going to be these restless phantom limbs, if you will, within us that are going to be vying for our attention, are going to try to manifest themselves in probably chaotic ways, similar to how. a child or if you want to say an inner child, an unresolved inner child wound is going to try to get mommy or daddy’s attention.

But if we keep brushing it off to the side or using external coping mechanisms, i. e. addictions to chase pleasure, to avoid pain, then we’re going to continue to manifest results in our life. that are not concordant with what it is that we’re, uh, we’re seeking. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah, the, the way that I would identify that in my work is a fantasy.

You know, we, we, we have, I love that. This is so straightforward. Yeah. It’s, I was living when I was in LA homeless, walking around being like, I study Abraham Hicks, law of attraction, law of attraction. I’m abundant. I’m abundant. And then I look at my bank account and I have pennies in it. Literally you have to transfer cents to buy a can of soup to eat at night.

I’m so, and this goes back to what you said about you change the internal orientation, but the external didn’t. And so. What I realized was that I was in a fantasy. I was, I was in denial now. There’s, there’s a couple parts here because you do have to shift internally first. And so You can change your life through that internal will of projection.

And the proper way of doing that, rather than just projecting, is what I call vision. 

This 

is what people, uh, all the titans of industry. Let’s just use, let’s say Elon Musk, for example. He has a vision of being on Mars, whether you like it or not. Doesn’t matter. He has a vision. And so he’s projecting his vision of the future into the world.

He’s still acknowledging that we’re not on Mars now. He’s not going around saying, Oh, we’re actually on Mars. Look at us. We’re interplanetary. Blah, blah, blah, blah. No, he says this is the truth of where we’re at. This is the vision of what is going to be, and I’m certain of it, and I’m certain of it because I’m actually taking steps.

I’m actually embodying it. I’m feeling it. I can see it. It’s real. Steps are happening towards it. That is the proper use of vision. Now, the improper use is projection and fantasy, where you deny and avoid the current reality so you can escape to a whatever the fantasy is. It doesn’t even have to be positive.

It could be negative. People could be in a fantasy that I’m a, I’m a worthless piece of shit. I’m not good enough. I’m ugly and fat. And you look at them and they have the most beautiful body in the world. So it doesn’t matter if the story is good or bad or whatever, it’s still a story. It’s still a fantasy.

And so, yeah. And so, so the, the number one thing at the end of my book, I hold five things. I say, put these five things above all else. And the number one is truth. Um, now, now in the big reality, love, uh, is really the ultimate thing. But if you also understand that the truth is loving, that love is the truth.

Now no love is just like a micro step above truth is what I’ve experienced. However, for a lot of people, if you say make love. The most important thing. Well, we have a problem here because many people have distorted ideas, projections and concepts of what love is, you know, we see a lot of abuse, destruction, codependency, narcissism, rescuing all of this stuff in the name of love.

So yes, love is. Number one. Um, however, I find that until you have a proper somatic and internal orientation and definition of love that is highest in all orders that Truth is going to be much more valuable. It’s the same thing, really. But if you under, if you make truth the most important thing, you say, alright, well, um, do I want to be comfortable?

Well, do I, would I rather know the truth about myself, or stay comfortable? And then there’s all of these decisions. Do I lie because I’m afraid of rejection, or do I stand for the truth? Do I enforce my boundaries because that’s the truth of what I feel, or do I not because I don’t want to offend or hurt somebody?

And so as you start orienting yourself to the truth, what happens is the truth is in direct opposition to fantasy. You can’t have both. So, you know, truth is the dissolver of illusion. And this is Maya. And on the cover of my book, this is one of the many. uh, interpretations of the symbol, right? You’re, you’re, uh, penetrating the illusion and, uh, right.

The Lucifer, the trick that I don’t exist, the illusion, right? That there’s something beyond just this. Um, but it’s not just this, you get to see the matrix. Now there is that certainly, and we have that, but there’s also this illusion of herself 

and 

you cannot access that Interdimensional mystical, whatever.

If you’re in a fantasy or you’re in denial, you can’t access that from there. If you’re dissociated, if you’re in your head, out of your body, up in the astral world, pretending that you’re a unicorn, you can’t affect the physical world because you’re not in it. You don’t have access to it. And so if you reverse that, if you come into your body, you go in, And feel and get more and more true and real, the realer you get, the paradox is that’s actually when you get into these metaphysical places.

It’s not up and out through a fantasy that looks like it, it’s into the truth inside in our body associated here and now. to a truth and reality that’s greater than our ego could ever develop or comprehend. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s so good. So well said and so right on the money. And

I’m going to take a moment to pause here. Just let the propundency of that, that truth land for a moment. And obviously when you say truth, you mean capital T truth, not lower T my truth, because that’s a whole other thing that people get stuck in. Like, oh, all truths are relative. And you, I have your truth and my truth.

This is a, this is a thing that drives me nuts. This is driving me crazy. Cause it’s like, no, there’s. There are certain laws and principles like the hermetic laws or principles or guiding principles to interpret it however you want to play it to your life, however you see fit, but there are certain immutable principles and guiding principles or laws that are what they are.

So my truth is based on my perceptions, filters, life experiences, and I’m going to make that whatever I’m going to choose to make it. But then there’s this other thing called capital T truth, which is immutable, like the commandments, right? Like God didn’t come down and say, well, You know, maybe you should follow.

And I don’t know if that actually happens. Kind of like it, right? Like, you know, the cartoonish version of what we were told, but like, let’s take the principle for what it is. Like, this is not for question. This is not negotiable. This is the moral guideline. And it is what it is of the universe 

Andrew Daniel: of the universe.

Yeah. So you, I love how you say immutable and this is, this is something that I struggled with too. Oh, subjective reality. Oh, this is my reality. Your reality. Great. It’s actually true. Like we are all living in our own subjective realities, but it’s not true. reality. It’s not the truth. And so again, with the cynosomatic work, which is amazing in proving this.

So one of the things let’s, I’ll give an example to bring this together. One of the Processes I have is working with archetypes in the body. So for example, I will do something like show me giving. And so that person in their body will show what they feel and, uh, and embody that archetype of giving to look and feel like, or I will say making money, right?

I’ll say, all right, Ronnie, show me in your body, making money. What does that look like? And here’s the thing. And this is, this proves it. What I absolutely am indebted to and love with this work so much is that it proves These spiritual truths. It takes these things that you and I have read in these books and seen and heard master speak and know at a deep level is true and actually proves them in physicality.

So what do I mean by this? So all right, show me making money in the body. All right. Well, that person starts moving now. There is. Something definitive as making money. It’s essentially receiving dollars currency, um, for yourself. Now you can do that by investing. You can do it by time for money, creating products, royalties, helping other people, providing value.

Usually it’s a, I give some value to the world and the world gives money back to me. It does not look like going swimming. It does not look like eating food. What it looks like is actually having dollar bills or euros or whatever it is coming into you. That’s, that’s objective, what it looks like. Now the subjective is, well, I could do it by this job or this job or this way or this way or the other way.

So, over to giving, right? I, there’s a definitive, Objective way of giving. We can objectively say swimming is not giving. If you say, Oh, if someone says, Hey, can you give me this? And you say, okay, and then you go swimming. It’s, it’s just wrong. Like, and you have to understand that is incorrect. A square is not a circle.

Ronnie Landis: Mathematically incorrect. 

Andrew Daniel: Exactly. Mathematically, a square is not a circle. It just not is. 

Ronnie Landis: By the way, it’s amazing that we have to, we have to, we have to like break these things down into like, you know, very rudimentary explanations. 

Andrew Daniel: Well, our world is in a very weird place right now with literally things like, what is a woman and a man?

Um, and I mean, that’s a whole up and down 

Ronnie Landis: down is up. Yeah. Yeah. 

Andrew Daniel: Well, it’s you know, it’s on purpose Because it just really confuses the fuck out of everybody and if you’re confused if you don’t know who you are or what the most essential basic Things are in life You’re gonna be very lost And who do you look to when you’re lost someone else, someone outside of you, someone who has the answers, which tends to be the person creating the confusion for their own power.

So that’s the state of the world anyway. Um, so in, in the, in these movements, you actually get to see, oh, there is an objective reality and then there is a subjective way of interpreting it. Okay. And you’re going to have these lowercase. So this is what I see in my book. My lowercase T’s are a little different than yours.

My capital T is the same. My lowercase T is how I see in the book is basically three layers. When I work with clients, there’s these three layers of, I guess, reality, I suppose, not metaphysically, but just therapeutically here. You have the surface layer. Where, um, Lucifer doesn’t exist based off of your, your metaphor, right?

This is just how things are. Oh, this is just how I am. This is just my life. I’m a victim. I’m a this. Uh, the government screwed me over. Uh, my boss sucks. Um, I’m a wonderful, amazing person. I’m the hottest woman in the world, whatever it is. That’s the matrix, right? That’s that surface level. That would be an F, right?

That’s just false. But we’re under illusion. We’re under the spell. We think that’s just how things are. Then the second layer is, uh, where I come in and we break that illusion. We see in, again, in my definition of lowercase t, which is the truth is this is dysfunctional. Uh, you’re manipulating. Um, this isn’t working, you have this backward, um, your energy is reversed in this way, you’re actually not making money, you’re actually poor, um, so what is the actual truth of what’s happening beyond the illusions?

Yes. So you getting honest with what is just real here. Now, if we just stop there, what happens is we stay in the world of fixing. We stay in the world of there’s something wrong with me. I’m broken materialistic world. This is all there is, et cetera. What I’m also doing in the work is this third layer.

And this is the truth with a capital T. This is your true self with a capital T it’s the you beyond. Duality, definition, distortion, filters, judgments, experiences, trauma, all of this stuff. Now there’s, there’s, it’s the you that is, um, that there’s nothing wrong with you. You’re not broken. You’re enough.

You’re lovable. You have everything you need. Right? There’s, there’s these certain, I’ve distilled it essentially down to four, three, even one of these core beliefs and, um, lies that stem. that are the stem for most people suffering, right? It’s literally that there’s something wrong, something wrong with me.

There’s something wrong with the world. I don’t have something I need. I’m not enough. Um, I’m unlovable, whatever it is, what I’m doing. And that third layer is that that’s not true. Who you are is infinite, divine. There’s nothing wrong, wrong with you. You have everything you need, et cetera. So what happens is in In a lot of the spiritual or new age places, what they’re doing is they’re bypassing that second layer.

They’re going from illusion to, you’re perfect. There’s nothing wrong with you, Ronnie. You’re an infinite being. Why should you be upset that you have 10 in your bank account? There’s an abundance everywhere. You’re perfectly wonderful and fine. Now, that’s kind of true, but it’s, Not because you’re bypassing and skipping a whole channel of reality, a whole layer of existence.

And that’s what I was doing when I was homeless in LA. I was like, Oh, I’m amazing. I’m a god. You know, I have all this stuff. And You, you can’t get there from there. You find out that even though you’re saying all of the right stuff, you’re in an illusion. You’re in a fantasy because you didn’t go in through it.

You kind of hopped on top and now you’re on a layer. You’re a facade. You have a veneer of spiritual truth, but you’re not actually in it because you skipped all the shadow material. You skipped the reality here. You skipped the embodiment piece. That’s what I was doing. And that’s what was keeping me stuck and confused because.

I knew those spiritual truths, but I was on top of them looking at them, not actually in them going through, uh, reality. Wow. Which is, which is why it makes it really confusing for people because you’re like, I know these spiritual truths. They’re right. How come they’re not working in my life? 

Ronnie Landis: Right. And then that’s, that’s the big issue.

And I can relate so much to that. I mean, there’s still aspects of my, my life where that, that pattern’s playing out. And I don’t think that’s anything to be ashamed or embarrassed about. I mean, it makes it worse. Yeah. Yeah. And also like to your, to your point, like we have been, we’re more confused about more things than, than ever.

And that’s collectively and individually. And that that’s part of the, the navigation system that we are trying to, um, trying to operate with, or we’re trying to find, I should say, we’re trying to find, we’re trying to find a navigation system because we never had a user’s map for the reality that we live in, for example, I often say that You know, our, our cognitive processing right now is so far beyond our design bandwidth, beyond the design features of our brain and our nervous system for the time that we live in.

I mean, just imagine when you open up, open up your phone and go to Instagram or social media. The amount of information that’s being projected to you and how much your brain is consciously and subconsciously processing and the amount of information, podcasts, um, you know, the amount of supplements that we have, the amount of opinions and externality that we are processing constantly, we’re not designed for this.

So You know, context is really important. And so I think what you mentioned early in the beginning is really important to bring full circle, which is that it’s not about adding more. It’s about subtracting. And I really like this, this quote that I took on early in my nutrition career. Um, addition by subtraction.

Addition by subtraction is this idea that it’s not about adding on, but it’s not just about taking things away. You’re adding in one thing at a time that’s beneficial and naturally that’s going to That’s going to displace things that are not useful, but if we try to add on 10 things at once, which is oftentimes what we do, we hop from 10 different podcasts.

It’s like, okay, how much do I really integrate? How much am I going to really apply? How much made its way through? Um, You know, it’s, it’s this, it’s this, uh, it’s, it’s a bit of a detoxification process. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. The information overload, um, in all senses, but you know what, Ronnie, good thing we have the fact checkers, right?

Oh my gosh. Thank you. They, they, they got our back. Yeah. They’re going to make sure we get all the truth in. Right. And obviously I’m being facetious here. Um, Yeah, but this is in our own life. We have to be the fact checkers and the fact checkers in the guidance system of ourself is feeling it’s intuition.

Now the big trouble with that is it comes to exactly what you just talked about about subtraction is that many of us who have heard about intuition and wanting to develop it and trust it to be this guidance system to allow us to sort through this. cognitive smorgasbord of most things that are completely irrelevant.

You know, it’s like, do you really need to know, uh, what 500 people halfway across the world that you’ve never met are eating for dinner? Like, It’s really not necessarily moving your life forward or contributing to your immediate survival, which is what our nervous systems, our biology, has, you know, designed, you know.

The tech expansion in the past hundred years versus our internal keeping up with it is just, just not, you know. It’s just no. So we have to be really, really careful. Diligent in understanding this or else we just get sucked into addictions and all of this stuff. 

Ronnie Landis: You got 

Andrew Daniel: you probably noticed I’m not on social media.

I actually got off of it because I was struggling a lot with it comparing and Why am I suffering, you know all this stuff? So But I would take it full circle back to the intuitions at subtraction. You mentioned something earlier, which I love, uh, which I mentioned in my book, it’s I call it the perceptual stack.

You have filters, distortions, deletions, judgments, traumas, stories, narratives, um, uh, opinion, miscellaneous data. Uh, all of these things are for most of us, what’s in between not only what’s happening in the world. And are receiving of it. And our self and the communication and expression of it out to the world that’s also getting filtered through, you know, 50 of these filters.

Just literally think of a Photoshop or Instagram filter. You add on 50 of those, it’s going to be muddy, it’s not even going to look like anything that it originally was. Which, by the way, is true. How you do one thing is how you do everything. So, I literally see how people are posting their stuff on social media tells me a lot about how they see themselves in the world.

Right? You go on your social media and you have to put ten filters on before you post it. That’s, that image you’re putting up, that’s your narcissistic image. That’s what you think you should look like to yourself in the world. Whereas in the reality is very different and the reality is also we lose access to you.

We don’t even know who you are through all of those layers of distortions. So not only is that happening externally in something basic like social media, it’s happening internally. So, our own perception of ourself is going through all of this, plus the path between our intuition, which is at our core, it’s at our center, it’s from feeling, it comes from this deep inner place, doesn’t come from the head, it comes from a feeling.

What happens for so many of us as we start to do this is, that voice, that little whisper, intuition comes up, but it’s getting distorted through all of this perceptual stack, and then it says, Oh, you should play the lottery. And we’re like, okay, I’m listening to my intuition, Yolo. I’m trusting myself, hashtag, whatever.

And then you go and do it and you’re, you know, life doesn’t work. And you’re like, my intuition is bullshit. Like this doesn’t work. Let me go back to, um, uh, spreadsheets and linear figuring stuff out because at least I can rely on that. The problem is your intuition wasn’t wrong. It’s just that you had all of this crap and gunk in between that truth and your conscious understanding.

So through, and only through, we don’t want to add another filter. We don’t add, want to add the rosy filter to it, or the, you know, Extra clarifying filter. We want to subtract. We want to remove through healing and all of the work, all of those distortions. So that signal, because it’s a very subtle signal, you have to be quiet to be still to hear it.

And so And as we collapse that, we actually get a better and better signal, a more accurate signal between that true self, that intuitive, infinite place, and our, our mind. And so that’s one of the things I realized, why people struggle with this intuition. Like some people think it’s stupid and they don’t trust it, and other people swear by it.

Oh, this is why. Because it’s a complete distortion and misunderstanding of those signals. So by the subtraction, you can, that’s how you develop your intuition. You, you do those three things. You subtract and you heal and you purify, not in a weird puritanical thing, but you just purify by the subtraction, this healing.

And two, you trust it. The more you trust it, the more it trusts you. So those are the two ways to develop that intuition. And that becomes your, your router. You know, when the pandemic happened and we’re getting all of this. Lying, I mean, just this crazy abuse of stuff by these governments and media, just, just incredibly.

Yeah. Insanity. It really is insane. It’s partially insane because if you can’t feel, you’re insane. These people are sociopaths. They can’t feel. They don’t have an awareness of empathy of the consequences of their actions. So it’s insane. It’s really dangerous and destructive. That happens with our self view.

Ronnie Landis: That’s exactly what I was going to say. 

Andrew Daniel: So, because I had developed that inner trust, that feeling, and because I, because how I moved through the world is by not being in my head, analyzing, all right, well, their micro expression up there means that they might be lying, and this, I move through the world by feeling.

So, when I hear data, when I have data coming in, or when I see something, I’m feeling it. If there’s a dissonance, I’m like, there’s something off. If there’s a resonance, say, okay, yeah. And so, that’s how I knew. It’s like, oh, man, I can’t trust any of these people. None of them are in feeling. They’re all in their head.

None of them are telling the truth. They might be benevolent, I don’t know, or they could be sociopaths. Probably they’re sociopaths based off, based off of history. Um, and so that’s How I saw the whole thing coming, the lockdowns, the vaccinations that I saw all of this coming a mile away when many people around me were just like, Oh yeah, two weeks flat in the curve.

I’m like, have you read history? Do you understand, do you understand when you give up any freedoms? Like it literally happened, uh, nine 11, we gave up those freedoms temporarily, never got those back. Um, so that’s a little different story. But coming back to it, 

Ronnie Landis: also what I’m hearing you say is that through your ability to feel and literally feel your nervous system and your gut brain access and just the holistic systems of your body that we call intuition.

I call that guttural intelligence, like gut brain instinct. You’re able to sense, or I should say, well, yeah, you’re able to sense, right? And you’re able to make sensible decisions, but you’re able to pattern recognize. Yes. If you’re not able to sense the sensations that are percolating within your systems, a, you’re going to make insensible decisions.

Um, and you’re not going to be able to recognize patterns. 

Andrew Daniel: Exactly in yourself or in the external world. 

Ronnie Landis: Therefore, if you can’t do that, you’re gonna, you’re gonna subject yourself to some fantasy or some illusion. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. And guess what? We think we do that in order to be safe, but it’s the exact opposite. If, if you can’t make sensible decisions because you’re not sensing, because you’re not feeling, you’re not going to feel safe in the world and living in your head is a very false sense of security that the ego wants to convince, right?

That control, um, versus safety thing. Uh, but if it’s, but you realize it’s the exact opposite. When you can trust yourself and what you feel, none of that matters. Uh, you may have misinterpreted it, that’s fine. Um, you know, it’s not about being an omnipotent, all knowing, always right for everything. But it’s about having your, your rudder be something greater than your ego or the external ego.

Ronnie Landis: Mm, beautifully said. Beautifully said. This is, this has been an incredible deep dive conversation so far beyond anything that expected. Um, and I let go of expectations ’cause I knew that this would be a new emergent kind of topic and, and framework and, and obviously a catch up with you. And I was really interested to see where this was all gonna go and, uh, you did not disappoint.

Um, I would ask you in reference to everything that we’ve shared, and it’s been quite a lot. What would, how do you want to, like, really integrate this and bring it full circle? And obviously, you know, share your resources and where people can find you. Um, how would you tie this all together? 

Andrew Daniel: Great question.

Big question.

I’m going to, I’ll, I think actually the end of my book, um, really sums this up. We’re talking about the five things to put above all else. And we’ve, um, touched on most of them. In a way, we’ve touched on all of them. And so, I think a great way to summarize this are these five principles, these five values, That if you put above all else, if you start aligning yourself and stand for these five things and put them into practice, don’t just embody them by thinking about them, actually show up in the world doing this, um, are these five things.

One is stopping. Just stop. Well, I can’t do this. Stop. Yeah. Yeah. Literally just stop. I mean, that’s what addictions are on, on ability to stop. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Andrew Daniel: And it’s, you know, nothing I’m saying, uh, is necessarily easy. It’s all simple, but it’s not necessarily easy. Um, you know, from, you know, in, in spiritual traditions, in, uh, paths of enlightenment from these teachers for the past thousands of years, like there, like it took people lifetimes to stop, like literally just this one thing.

Stop suffering. Stop suffering. Yeah. Yeah. But like how? Stop. Stop. Subtract, right? It’s stop, stop, stop, stop. Now, the problem with this, when most people don’t talk about it, it’s really hard to sell. Stop. Now, I put it in a book, uh, and that’s a few bucks. Um, but really you can’t, it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s no magical bullet.

Um, there’s no special technique. There’s not a 50 page process. We can break it down a little bit, but really it’s just. Stop. So stop is one. Two is feel. We talked about this a lot. You have to feel these things. That’s not about feelings. Oh, you hurt my feelings. It’s not about getting hysterical and being emotional.

You see a lot of people who are hysterical and victims saying, Oh, you hurt my feelings. I don’t feel like it, blah, blah, blah. They’re not feeling. They’re reacting to their emotions so they don’t have to feel it. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s so good. 

Andrew Daniel: And, and this is a great way people calm themselves. They’re like, Oh yeah, I, I, I’ve done all that work.

You know, I’ve, I felt that. Yeah. Well, what does it feel like? No, it’s not up there. Feeling is not up there out of your body in your head. It’s down here. 

Ronnie Landis: There’s a great exam. Not that I don’t want to interject too much, but there’s a great example or model of this, you know, for example, when we’re in it and it’s kind of like a yes.

And like when you’re expressing and like, so you’re grieving, right? And it’s, it’s very expressive and yes. And that’s a, that’s a, that’s like a passing wave of, of the ocean, but there’s an even deeper level of embodied feeling. Which is like really holding yourself versus the, the over, um, over external expressing and the wailing and everything, but actually holding yourself in.

Feeling like really deepening into the roots of the feeling of it. It’s less externally expressive, um, performative, but it’s, it’s, you’re deeply, deeply feeling it within your body. 

Andrew Daniel: I love what you said actually at the very end, performative. So many people are performing. 

Ronnie Landis: I see that a lot in a lot of the like trauma, trauma group work.

Andrew Daniel: Yeah, because let everybody know I’m feeling it or, you know, it’s, it’s a hundred different things. But the only way to know is if you’re someone who can feel this is why I’m really good at what I do is because I’m feeling the person. If, if I have a client who’s doing all of this, uh, expression, again, the expression isn’t wrong.

If you’re authentically feeling it and expressing it. Super important. Super valid. Do not suppress that or judge it. It is very important to get that out, to express it. However, it has to be authentic. If you’re acting the feeling out, if you’re acting out, if you’re dramatizing, if you’re performing, you’re not actually feeling it.

So that performance you said is perfect. And I’m going to add another layer to that, which I think, you know, Encapsulates what you said about this internal holding is there’s a surrender aspect to it. You can’t control it You have to surrender 100 percent if you only go 99 percent into the feeling you’re not gonna penetrate it You’re just gonna indulge in the misery.

You’re just gonna get off or Just make yourself more miserable by going 90 percent in 80 percent in and then backing out So, it requires that 100%, that holding yourself of going in and surrendering to it. Another way, a more intense way of saying it that I say in my book, You have to let it penetrate you.

Are you, are you willing for this feeling to annihilate you? Yeah. It’s that ego death, you know, you would have on a psychedelic experience. Are you willing to die? Because when we’re faced with this deep, lifelong shadow material, grief, pain, trauma, We’re terrified because we might lose ourselves, or our identity for the past 40 years may have been based off a handful of these stories.

Who are we without them? Oh my God, that’s terrifying for most people. And so they don’t go there. So it’s that willingness to surrender. Also there’s a stopping that in order to feel, it requires you to stop suppressing the feeling. Because there’s two definitions of stop, as they say in my book, there’s a plugging up, you prevent it, you’re crying, but then the judgment comes in and the self consciousness comes in and says, Oh, stop, you shouldn’t feel that.

So you stop the feeling, you plug it up. And then the second definition is a cessation. Like stop smoking. You, you, you, you, Stop the hose like nothing’s nothing’s being done where the first the clamping is It’s an act if you have to be doing something to stop where true stopping is subtracting. It’s not doing so that’s stopping feeling the next one is Uh, the truth.

We talked about that. Right? Make the truth the most important thing. You have to be willing. You have to be willing to tell the truth to yourself and other people. So often we’re actually holding people back because we’re unwilling to tell them the truth. Say, Hey, Ronnie, this is what I’m seeing. Hey, so and so, do you realize you’re doing this?

And that’s very uncomfortable. Um, it requires great courage. All of this requires tremendous. So then the next is. responsibility, which we didn’t talk much on, but it’s still the underlining theme of taking responsibility for everything in your life. It doesn’t mean blaming. It doesn’t mean blaming yourself.

Self blame is not self responsibility. You’re still a victim to your own stuff. So the, the cure is self blame. And remedy for the victim mentality is responsibility. It’s the path to freedom. Absolute freedom requires absolute responsibility. The more freedom you want in your life, the more freedom you need to take and take on.

And I thought it was the exact opposite. That’s what I was doing when I was in LA homeless. I was like, I want to be free. I don’t want to have a home I’m tied down to. I don’t have a job I’m tied down to. So I was like, oh, less responsibility equals more freedom. That’s the reverse wiring we talked about.

I had it completely backwards. 

Ronnie Landis: Would you say that a lot of the self judgment and the self persecution, these, these incessant thoughts that come up randomly about what we’re not doing, what we need to take care of. Would you say that’s actually an aspect of our avoidance of being responsible, i. e. why these things continue to come up?

I’m not paying my bills. You’re not doing this. These quote unquote negative thoughts, it would seem to me that they actually have a root into, uh, a sense of responsibility or a lack thereof. 

Andrew Daniel: I think so. I think at some level we all kind of know. Yeah. You know, it’s like you said, it’s, it’s built into the system.

And this is what I love about Taoism. It’s the Tao. The more you line up with the flow and the laws of the universe, the better your life works. Like you, you talked about the 10 commandments and just, if we talk about this really simple stuff here, not even esoteric, like they’ll, she’ll not steal and kill, you know, let’s just talk about those two.

It is self evident. It is self evident that everyone’s life works better as a society and culture in their own personal guidance system when we’re not recklessly murdering and stealing from other people and harming people. Like, that’s built into the, to nature. We know it’s true because life works better when that doesn’t happen.

So it’s like, it’s, it’s self evident, it’s built into it. If we were in a universe where that was opposite, it wouldn’t work. It’s like, oh, killing people and stealing, everybody was happier. Um, which in, in our mind just, just doesn’t make any sense because that’s, that’s not true. Us, we’re wired that way. You know, that’s an immutable law.

Now there’s, there’s gray zones, right? It’s, it’s not, then you, you start getting into the tricky stuff. Well, is it okay at all to kill? Well, of course it is. It has to be because we, we kill. Life in order to live to consume, but that’s a different order of that truth Now you can you can what happens if we go too far Well, we rape and pillage the entire land destroy Mother Earth and then we’re all dead But if we don’t do it at all We’re going to starve and die as well too.

And so the whole system, uh, you know, just as you know, working with the body, there’s a balance, you know, too much calcium, too much magnesium, not enough, too little things just don’t work. Um, so there’s that. And then the final thing is choice. The fifth thing is choice. Make a new choice. You hear these voices.

They come and say, you got to pay your bills, you got to do this. You should do this. You’re this or that or the other thing. Well, how long have those voices been coming in? Nothing will change until you make a new choice. That is where your power is. It’s not someone else choosing. It’s not something external changing.

It’s you making a new choice. It could be a new choice in perspective of stopping, of new behavior, new thinking, whatever it is. Your life will only change once you make a new choice. And if that That thing doesn’t change in your physical life. You really haven’t made the choice. This is the fantasy part that comes back in.

So you can live in your fantasy world thinking you’re choosing abundance. Um, but if you’re completely bypassing your responsibilities and finances, you’re Really not 100 percent So the choices the way, you know, you’ve actually made the choice and I say this with my book It’s like I chose to write this book.

I chose this book and I give a meta perspective of as I’m writing this I chose to write this book, but the only way we’ll know that I chose a published book is if this is in your hands and you’re reading it. Otherwise, I could have chose a draft. I could have chose an almost published book. I could have chose a finished book that I was too afraid to publish.

You know the choices you make if you look back and see the results in your life. So, so right on very simple, but, um, harder, easier said than done, right? 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. And, and we need these, we need these sophisticated yet structurally integral frameworks like you’ve presented in this. I mean, I can’t believe it’s been two hours.

Like it’s just shy. Oh, geez. Oh, wow. That’s that’s wild. I feel 

Andrew Daniel: like we’re just getting started. Yeah. 

Ronnie Landis: I know, I know. And this is a lot to integrate, but I feel like, yeah, I just feel like this was, this was incredible joy for me. Um, and I know everyone listening, this is gonna be one of those podcasts that is a resource for you.

That you can keep going back over and it’s free of charge. How amazing is that the world of opulent abundance? Um, if you choose to access the things that are actually going to bear utility in your life, this was incredible for myself personally. And I know for everyone listening. So Andrew, thank you so much.

And where can people get your book, find out more about your work and also work with you if they choose to. 

Andrew Daniel: Yes. Well, first off, thank you so much, Ronnie. This was a joy to. I, I just, like I said, I feel like I’m just getting started. Uh, you’re, you asked so good questions. You contributed so much of your own knowledge to this.

I learned a lot and, uh, I really appreciate, uh, I know you said you have so many guests and you’re, you’re, uh, you, you squeezed me in and I am great, very grateful for that. Uh, so as far as, resources. If anybody is interested in anything I’m talking about, you can get my book, Awaken to Your True Self, Why You’re Still Stuck and How to Break Through.

That’s pretty much everywhere you want to get it. I have an audiobook, Kindle, digital, paperback, hardcover, etc. So everything I’ve talked about is in this book. It’s a big book. It’s a confronting book. Um, but if you want to get started in this new way of moving through the world, this is the first step. Uh, if you’d like to learn more about Cinesomatics, you can go to Cinesomatics.

org. Uh, and there, there’s some sample videos and stuff. They’re a few years old. Uh, I looked a little younger, but they still give you an idea of what the work is and the philosophy. If you want to work with me personally and learn more about me, myself, uh, you can go to andrewdaniel. org. And, um, if there’s any availability, uh, you can book a, uh, assessment.

And the embodiment assessment is the, the private one on one first step into this world. Uh, we also have workshops coming up, live and virtual. Uh, we have lots of, lots of really good stuff coming up. So if you’re interested in this stuff, uh, please check it out. Amazing. 

Ronnie Landis: Like I said, this was an absolute pleasure.

Thank you for taking the time and going on the ride with me. And, um, yeah, just very grateful. Thank you for being here. 

Andrew Daniel: Yeah. Thank you for having me.