Ronnie Landis: Greetings and aloha. Welcome to another edition of the Holistic Life Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Ronnie Landis. And so excited to share this episode with you. It’s a really, really amazing conversation with a dear friend of mine, Angie King. Uh, she is an incredible holistic health practitioner, a shamanic healer, a ceremonialist, and a transformation coach.

And this was a really, really fun conversation for me. We dove into a lot of really interesting territory. And some of the, some of the places we went with this was the truth about autoimmune conditions, the dangers of antibiotics, various things around women’s health, mind, body, spirit, medicine, subconscious belief programs, and shamanic healing practices.

So as you know, if you’ve been listening to this podcast or you’ve followed my work for any length of time, You know that I’m a bit of a rabbit holder. I like to, I like to track the constellation of different thoughts or perspectives or ideas or topics and just kind of see where the conversation goes and this one definitely will not disappoint.

It’s really, it’s really good. Really, really good. So I’m excited for you to listen to it. And on a final note, if you’ve been following this podcast, you’ll notice that there’s been a bit of an inconsistency over time with me publishing episodes every week. And there have been so many changes in my life It’s impossible to keep up with it or to even try to explain it, but there’s just been a lot of changes I’m sure anyone listening to this is experiencing profound changes Some comfortable some maybe not comfortable So let’s just say that there has been a lot going on and there’s a lot of upgrades a lot of Transformations and a lot more that is going to be coming to you guys very soon You I do have a lot of other interviews that I have batched already.

So every week there will be a new episode. I might even put some out to two at a week time because we do have a lot of backlogged episodes and some amazing content coming out. So with that said, enjoy this incredible conversation with my friend, Angie King.

Angie King, welcome to the life mastery podcast show. 

Angie King: Thank you, Ronnie. I’m so happy to be here. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, super happy to have you and looking forward to this. We’ve known each other for a number of years through the Facebook world, and it’s been a number of years since we’ve actually connected, but I saw a lot of the posts that you’ve been making over the last few months, particularly related to the emotional connection between Health and weight loss and hormone health and I know that you’ve been focusing a lot on women’s health And that is a particular topic that’s near and dear to my heart.

I’ve worked with women’s health for most of my career, just the nature of being a holistic health practitioner and a, you know, a life coach or a life strategist. Mostly women are attracted to this type of work. There’s plenty of men as well. But you just find that you tend to work more, I say you, I, most of us tend to work more with women.

Um, and so for me, that actually caused me to gravitate towards understanding women’s health and hormone and neurochemistry and the different things that women uniquely go through in their health journey. And I thought, wow, this is a great opportunity to go deep into that from a woman. And, uh, especially this, this connection between Our subconscious and emotional life and how that relates to our physical health and weight loss and anything else that we dive into.

So I’m excited to have you on and to dive deep with you. 

Angie King: Beautiful. Yeah. I’ve always known your kindred spirit. So, uh, I love that you are, um, tuned into this, you know, especially that, that emotional, spiritual connection, how the body reflects that, you know, it’s so important to understand, you know, and, um, and it’s an important part of.

transformation, um, you know, both emotionally, spiritually, but also physically that’s, you know, sorely overlooked in our culture. 

Ronnie Landis: Absolutely, to say the least, and I think the perfect place to start is what is your personal relationship with this meaning what’s your journey because all of us as quote unquote healers or health and even personal development specialists, we usually get into this kind of work because we have a problem we’re trying to solve in our own life.

And then eventually through that process, we discover a passion and want to help other people. So I’m curious, how did this line of work start for you? 

Angie King: Yeah. So, well, you know, I mean, it started really early. Um, I, I was, uh, overweight as a child and, um, You know, that, that was what spurred me into, um, you know, looking into ways to.

To change my, my body and that was coming from more of an egoic standpoint at first, you know, just because there was so much criticism and, um, but, uh, you know, and I wanted to just be accepted and liked, you know, um, And so that’s really what got me started looking into nutrition. Um, but then it, you know, evolved into, uh, just wanting to feel good and, um, and to help other people feel good.

But early on, I had some health issues, you know, other than just being overweight, I had, um, uh, an appendicitis when I was 12, that Actually, didn’t I didn’t know about till I would tell about three months later and live for three months with a ruptured appendix and survive that. And so that sort of like looking back on that experience.

Um, and then studying functional nutrition later and naturopathy, you know, finding out that, oh, I had a dairy sensitivity that I didn’t even know about. And that’s what caused, on the physical level anyway, that, That appendicitis to occur. Um, and so that, uh, finding that out and finding out that, Oh, all the ear infections that I had as a baby, um, and all those antibiotics that I got put through, you know, it was all could have been resolved if they’d known that I had a dairy sensitivity.

Um, and so, uh, and other food sensitivities, you know, if my parents had known to look into my diet, my nutrition and, um, So, you know, just reflecting on all of that as I was starting to get into nutrition, um, and then looking at, you know, the emotional, uh, environment that I grew up in, um, it sort of all just brought it together for me and, um, but there was one point Particular incident that really spurred me into functional nutrition, you know, looking at root causes for myself and, and, um, wanting to heal my gut.

And I had this, I had a reaction to a, um, a TB skin test. I was working in as a clinical dietitian. At University of New Mexico, uh, and you know, every year you’ve got to go get your TB test and, um, and they don’t tell you, you know, what could happen, you know, it’s just pretty routine. And I ended up having a delayed reaction to the TB skin test and had this, uh, autoimmune, uh, inflammatory skin disease.

Pop up and that was so jarring for me, you know, to, to have all these lesions all over my body and, um, and not know what to do about it. And I was just getting into looking at food sensitivity testing and, um, that sent me on this journey of, of healing my gut. Um, and really dialing in my nutrition and then, you know, healing that, being able to heal that.

Uh, and I see, you know, I’m a part of a group of people on Facebook who are, Um, who are, who are suffering with this particular skin condition and they’re miserable, they’re suffering, you know, and they have, they don’t know what to do. Um, and so I feel like if someone who has healed that and healed, uh, other conditions like Irritable Bowel Syndrome and, um, reflux, you know, H.

pylori, um, Um, you know, multiple food sensitivities, anxiety, depression. I just feel like I have a responsibility, you know, to help others get to the root causes, you know, not just the physical root causes, but the emotional, spiritual root causes. So long story long. 

Ronnie Landis: No, that that’s perfect. And there’s, there’s so many little side quests that we could go on that story.

And it’s a beautiful story. And it’s a very, it’s a very common and relatable story. It’s it’s your unique story into how you got into this work. I have my own, we all have our own kind of journey into this. That there were a few things that came up for me that I want to get your perspective on. Um, you talked about antibiotics.

For anyone that has been in the holistic health and nutrition world for any amount of time, you obviously know that antibiotics are not the best way to go for almost everything. There’s there’s like a 1 percent like say if you have a kidney infection or a urinary infection or something and you’re at that point, you’re at that point.

Then that can be something that’s very helpful. But the way that they’re prescribed in the medical model, and I know because I worked in the hospital doing HIV testing for three years, the way that they’re prescribed almost like candy. And, and I think COVID also brought this to the forefront where people are prescribing antibiotics.

For runaway bacterial infections, but you’re trying to kill a quote unquote virus, but you’re giving me antibiotic that is representative of the mentality and also the incompetence. Of that entire model, not to make this conversation solely about that, but I always have to bring that up. You know, the mindset and the mentality of the particular model of health or disease management that most of us had to go through or came out of to come into the alternative.

And I say alternative quote unquote alternative, you know, health, um, path, you know, it’s, it’s riddled with these booby traps and sounds like you went through some of that. 

Angie King: Oh yeah, many, many booby traps to get through, uh, on my journey. Yeah, and, and, yeah, seeing the, um, Uh, I guess discovering it was antibiotic that was like my relationship with that that actually like really, um, you know, sparked some kind of holy rage in me, you know, yeah.

Because, you know, finding out that I was treated for a viral infection, you know, in my ears. Over and over and over with a medication that wasn’t even called for that didn’t even treat the condition that I had, um, and it wiped my gut, you know, just, uh, just obliterated my microbiome, you know, um, And that led to all these issues that I had, I mean, it was through, you know, physically it’s the root of a lot of the, the conditions, you know, that I, that I, um, ended up, uh, having to deal with.

So, um, and you know, and then unfortunately, 

Ronnie Landis: I’m sorry, I was just going to say, do you, did that lead to the autoimmune condition? 

Angie King: I, yes, I believe that it was a, it was a setup, you know, like the TB test, um, you know, when I looked at the ingredients, of course, it’s just a bunch of stuff that, you know, it’s, um, immune activators and, um, you know, it could, it was a trigger, but I already had the condition set up, right?

Um, my gut was, It was a mess at that time. I hadn’t, you know, woken up to, uh, you know, the fact that I had so many missing microbes yet and, um, and I, that I had stealth infections. Um, yeah, that was the, the physical root. Of the autoimmunity was the imbalance in my microbiome. Right. And then, and then, you know, maybe some, some genetics at play.

It’s that three legged stool of autoimmunity, right? It’s the gut barrier. Um, and micro, microbial diversity, uh, genetics, and then the trigger, the environmental trigger. Um, yeah, which included stress as well and unresolved trauma, but that TB test was just, you know, it’s like the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Ronnie Landis: I see. I see. Thanks for explaining. And I also find this interesting, you know, autoimmune conditions being a very. interesting reflection of the subconscious, let’s say trauma imprints as, as one, as one, you know, metaphysical leg on the, on the, the, the seat, so to speak, laid out like the physical legs of the chair.

Then you have the metaphysical legs of the chair, the mind, uh, the emotions and the spirit, if you want to kind of reduce it to that. And I know we’re going to get into this. You know, I find autoimmune very interesting. There’s, there’s very clearly the physiological and immunological and microbiotic aspect of it that cannot be ignored.

Um, and then there’s also this idea that the immune system is fighting against. The person, I think that’s a very reduced, very simplistic, um, perspective on it. We won’t go too much deeper, but that’s kind of like the meme. That’s kind of like the defined explanation for what an autoimmune condition is.

And it becomes even more interesting to realize that we do have subconscious conditioning or embedded. Programs of trauma that we’ve experienced in this life or another, however you want to think of it. And that has a big part to play. And that’s, that’s where I feel like this conversation is going to go into.

And it feels like that’s a lot of what the work you do is, um, particularly because I know that you have a shamanic background as well. So it feels like there’s like a, there’s a deep, there’s a deep connection there between the mind, the body and the spirit in your work. And that’s, that’s kind of what I’d like to get your take on when it comes to, um, autoimmune condition in particular, like the, the, yeah, like the, the trauma emotional based connection to it.

Angie King: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I’d love to dive into this with you. Um, Yeah, you know, the autoimmunity was the thing that really, um, you know, because as I started looking into all the, you know, the ways to the angles to cut, you know, to treat it from, um, and finding, you know, that there was an emotional connection, uh, and, you know, understanding, ESO.

Translation by Yeah, we can look at what the immune system is, you know, apparently doing, right? It’s attacking itself, you know, there’s this confusion between what is self and what is not self, um, and seeing the self as, you know, uh, as a foreign invader, that’s the, um, you know, conventional sort of explanation.

Ronnie Landis: That’s a really deep thing that you just said. I don’t want to, I don’t want to, um, cut you off, but that, that statement that you just said, Is a very powerful statement. I think is going to be the foundation of this conversation. Then self is attacking the not self or the not self is attacking the self.

It’s there’s a there’s a there’s essentially a biological identity confusion. 

Angie King: Mm hmm. Right. Yeah, it’s yeah. And that is actually just a reflection, right, of what’s going on on the level of consciousness, right? That confusion of, of, uh, self not self, right? Like, not, Having an understanding of who and what I am, right?

And, um, and, and the ego, right? Bringing in like the ego going on attack, um, of the self. And so that is just reflected. The body simply, purely reflects the state of mind. That’s all that’s ever happening. You know, on, on the physical level. And that’s why, you know, we can use the body, you know, and the nervous system, you know, as a portal into greater awareness, greater self understanding, right.

Coming back and restoring, uh, the, uh, our identity, you know, back to the truth of who and what we are. 

Ronnie Landis: Okay, that’s amazing. That is just such an amazing setup on bringing a few different things together and really driving the core principle. And this is so much of what my work has become. You know, Sam, what I feel from you two is tying together.

These different modalities, these different tools from the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of the human experience. And really bringing them into the center point or the, this, the, the arrow, the tip of the arrow, which is that Ultimately, this is all a play of consciousness expressing itself through physical form, through our body and our relationship to ourself.

And um, and yeah, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna step back now. I wanna really, yeah, I wanna, I wanna see where, where consciousness wants to take this conversation or where you’d like to take this conversation as we’ve kind of set the foundation for it. 

Angie King: Hmm. Beautiful. Yeah. Tune in for a moment here.

Hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, as you know, uh, my work, my work is, uh, currently, um, where I’m guided where consciousness, you know, guiding me to work with, with women is around weight because it is such a painful, uh, issue. Um, and, you know, confusing, um, issue for a lot of women and, um, and so, you know, I present it as, uh, you know, in, in the modern woman’s, you know, language, um, and the way in a way that she can understand it and the way that she can connect with it, like, yeah, that’s what I’m suffering with, um, and.

And then also, you know, from there, uh, helping her to understand that it’s not just about calories and calories out, right? Uh, because this is an imbalance, right? This is weight, uh, weight loss, resistance, you know, excess weight gain. Uh, and all the issues that come with it, you know, cause it’s not just about weight and how, how women are looking, even though that’s like a lot of the concern for them, there’s also then the propensity toward other chronic diseases, um, including autoimmunity, right.

And type two diabetes and, um, high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s dementia. I mean, it all, you know, Can stem from, uh, from, uh, weight gain, right? Like, it’s kind of like what starts happening first a lot of the time. Um, and so, you know, we don’t just, um, you know, do calories and calories out.

We really look at what is going on, um, in. The, you know, at the level of consciousness, like why, why am I numbing out with food? Why am I, uh, not feeling like getting up off the couch? You know, like, why am I, why is my energy so low where, you know, why am I looking for, you know, what am I looking for in these foods that I’m choosing to eat?

You know, where am I not getting enough sweetness in my life that I’m looking for it in food? I mean, there’s so many, um. Angles, you know, and ways in, um, you know, that we can take from like the outer experience, you know, to dive in and do, uh, the inner work, uh, and, um, you know, in rebalancing the nervous system.

Cause really that’s where it’s coming from. It’s like this state of fight or flight. And it comes back to that misidentification of who and what I really am. Right. Uh, if I, if I believe that I’m not, um, worthy of love or, you know, that I’m not safe, then I’m going to try, that’s going to show up in my nervous system and I’m going to feel, um, you know, really stressed or overwhelmed, anxious, and then I’m going to try to, um, regulate myself somehow.

And all that’s happening unconsciously. Right. Um, and. Um, unconsciously, then there’s the, you know, numbing with food and alcohol and, um, you know, and other means as well, you know, screens, um, attention, validation, uh, and so, and people pleasing as well, right. Putting everybody else’s needs first and not taking care of one’s self, um, because there’s not that belief in place that, you know, that I’m worthy.

I’m worthy of setting these boundaries and, um, and feeling good and, you know, doing things that make me feel good. So, um, you know, we have to look at these because, you know, I see so many women just going on diet after diet, taking supplements, taking, you know, and some of these supplements can be great, but they’re not addressing the root of the root, which is, um, Really, you know, what I’m believing about myself, how I’m seeing myself, um, how I’m identifying, right.

That’s what’s going to play out in the nervous system and in the behaviors. And it’s going to end up, you know, as a physical manifestation of excess, um, weight and, um, chronic diseases. 

Ronnie Landis: That was, that was so beautifully said and so on money too. And I think that that’s, that’s something that we in our collective, in our culture, And especially in our, our, the fusion between personal development, spiritual growth and holistic health, those things are fusing and merging and becoming more of one template than the separated itches that they used to be like in the, the personal growth industry.

Now it’s become much more clear that if you are going to do holistic health work, you need to have some form of trauma informed education. If you’re going to be a personal development or life coach, you need to have some kind of competency of a yes, trauma and, and also neurochemistry. And understanding how things like dopamine and serotonin and the imbalance between the two and how our motivational neural networks work and even like cognitive, um, cognitive behavioral therapy and in different modalities, not to say somebody needs to be an expert in all these, but you need to see the interlinking between again, the mind, body, and spirit relationship, which is exactly what you’re pointing out.

And I really love this focus on not just changing the behavior, but changing the mechanism or the driving force behind the behavior. And when you focus on, you know, essentially what I’m hearing is that, you know, we can call it habits or patterns or, you know, different things of that nature behaviors, but really what we’re dealing with is a form of addiction.

Addiction is on a spectrum and there’s a reason why we gravitate towards different coping mechanisms, no matter what they, they may be on the outside. And that’s what I’m hearing from you is essentially. We gravitate towards different coping strategies because on a deeper level, we’re coping with a disconnection to our self and we gravitate towards things that are not our self.

In order to fill that God shape hole within us, or that just that, that emotional disconnect that we are either conscious or unconscious of. And that’s like the best strategy that we have in the moment to sedate that, that, uh, you know, like that nervous system sympathetic overload, that stress response.

And so that I’m really, I’m really glad that you brought that up. And I’ve, um, you know, I know I kind of just threw a lot out there, but that’s, that’s kind of how I heard all that. 

Angie King: Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I love how you frame it as addiction. Um, you know, and when you said that, yeah, like I, it, I definitely see that on the, on the physical level, there is this addiction to these, you know, different like coping mechanisms and, um, and, and then also there’s an addiction.

Um, you know, we, we take that, you know, go into that deeper space. There is an addiction to, um, our thinking, right. And our addiction, the addiction to a certain narrative that we’ve been programmed with, um, that we innocently and unconsciously took on. Right. We don’t know that we’re addicted to these thoughts and to feeling, uh, Not okay.

But that’s what it is. You know, it’s an addiction to not to feeling not okay, not good enough, not love separate from source. Um, you know, because we have a choice. In how we feel and the thoughts that we, um, are going to tune into and identify with. Um, but unconsciously, right? We’re, we’re addicted to these lines of thinking and ways of being and ways of seeing ourselves.

Uh, and of course, the answer, the antidote then is to become conscious. of that addiction, of these, these patterns, um, so that we can shift it and come into conscious creation of our experience and of our health and, you know, our, um, Our lives. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s so good. And again, there’s like a number of tabs that are easily opened up and I’m going to try to like, try to bring them all in as we, we keep going with this conversation.

Um, One of the things I’ve always thought about for years of being a nutritionist and, and when I was solely focused on that particular medium of transformation, let’s say. I always noticed in the dietary world that people could easily get obsessed with a type of diet or health optimization routine, if you will.

But I felt like for a lot of people, they were chasing their tail. I certainly did this for a time because they didn’t have a deeper mission or purpose or reasoning behind why they wanted to get healthy, or they wanted to focus on health or biohacking or self optimization. It almost felt like for a lot of people, it was, it was like just For just to be included.

That’s a big one like community tribe just to be included. That’s why a lot of times we can get into a tribalism when it comes to our spirituality or our, um, you know, personal development communities or modalities or our diets and health routines. We can pigeonhole ourself into a one way kind of thinking.

And this is my band of people. We all agree with the same things basically. And that’s kind of where I’m going to position myself because it’s comfortable. I’m accepted, you know, all kinds of these very basic primal human survival, you know, needs being met most of it, not conscious. And then eventually in order to keep growing, we need a deeper reason for why in this case, for me, it was like, okay, why do I want to be healthy?

There’s the obvious of like, I want to feel good. I want to have a qualitative life. All that’s kind of very obvious. And that’s our birthright. But behind it, I felt like, okay, wait a minute. What’s my actual mission and purpose as a human being, as a soul, having a human experience, because honestly, I’m getting kind of bored with this whole thing and this, and this nutrition thing and this supplement thing.

I’m getting kind of bored with it and I need it to serve a bigger purpose. It can’t just be for its own sake for me to carry out the same routines day in and day out. And what I noticed with that in my own experience is because it became so boring, I started as conscious as I am, I started going into other distractions.

I started distracting myself with my phone or my business or relationships or You know, even certain addictions or, um, different things because I didn’t, I no longer had a deep enough purpose and why, or why I was doing the things that at one point I was incredibly passionate about. Right. So I guess kind of this long monologue that I just went through is ultimately.

Getting to this point that in order for something, not only to stick, but in order for it to really be continually, um, helpful or useful, there needs to be a deeper reason for why we’re doing the thing, which I think goes back to what you’re bringing up, which is like what, you know, the, the, psychoemotional, um, beliefs.

That influence why we do what we do. 

Angie King: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful monologue. Um, yeah, we do need a deeper, deeper reason for why we’re doing what we’re doing. I, um, I, I went through a similar thing, you know, I, I was, Very, um, regimented and even, you know, with food sensitivities, I was so strict for a while and, and, and I realized that it was kind of stealing my joy.

Um, and, and, and then I got into shamanism and started seeing. And realizing that, oh, wait a minute, like I, I have some power here. I don’t always have to be so, um, restrictive. You know, I came here to feel good. I came here to enjoy the, you know, to drink the drink, taste the fruit, you know, and, um, And so, um, I started, you know, tuning into the power of my intention and my consciousness and the fact that all of life and all of nature is responsive to my consciousness, my God consciousness.

And, you know, that I could bring more enjoyment. And more flexibility and fluidity in that way, um, by infusing intention, you know, and talking to my body and working with it as an ally. Um, and for me that, you know, that goes into sort of that deeper reason, you know, for why we’re here. Um, and, and being able to integrate that into, you know, my self care and how I’m showing up in the world.

Um, Is that, you know, because if we’re just identified with the body, and we just think we’re a, we’re a body, and we don’t have an understanding a real deep embodied understanding of who and what we are as a spiritual being having a human experience and here for a particular purpose. It can get really boring and it can also turn into.

You know, becoming very fear based, right? Because if I’m just this body and if something bad happens to this body, or if this body gets sick, then, you know, uh, it brings up that, that primal, that fear of death, right? And like something, something’s going, I can be destroyed. It brings up that belief of, you know, that, that I can be hurt or destroyed, which is actually not true, right?

Because we’re not the body. Um, we’re a limitless eternal being that cannot be destroyed or, or hurt, you know, in any way. Um, so if I’m not in connection with that, with the truth of who I am and what I came here for, which is really just to be a walking blessing in my own unique way, um, And, and that I’m a powerful being who gets to create and weave my own experience and my own reality, um, then it can get, it can start to feel really mundane.

The things that, you know, like what we’re doing here and the things that we do to, you know, take care of our bodies. Um, And, um, 

Ronnie Landis: yeah, 

Angie King: to, you know, it’s about raising our frequency. It’s about keeping our frequency high and, and feeling how good that feels, you know, to be in full alignment with, with the truth of who we are.

Ronnie Landis: You mentioned. about us becoming conscious of our patterns, behaviors. And I was also, I would also say our thought loops. I mean, being, becoming conscious is an all encompassing thing and it happens in stages and cycles. It’s, it’s not this fabricated new age kind of idea that you’re just going to become enlightened and awakened.

Like it’s a very perplexing process and it’s a deconstructive process. And that’s why I think it can be so challenging. And oftentimes we Fight ourself in the process of becoming conscious where it could be a lot easier, but you know, it’s kind of part of the human condition and the conundrum of the conditioning that we have, um, been conditioned with, like to break down those old structures and identities and almost to neuromuscularly rework ourselves into a more authentic Expression of ourself.

So when, you know, I wanted to, I wanted to touch on this with you about the process of becoming more conscious, because it’s one thing to become conscious of our patterns. It’s another thing to consciously rework our patterns and then to integrate the new patterns like that. That’s a entire. process in of itself.

Angie King: Yeah, it is. It is. And it’s not something that a lot of, uh, people are skilled at, uh, know how to do, right. We didn’t get the instruction manual. Um, but we have so much beautiful, ancient, uh, Wisdom to draw from, you know, where it’s really already been, been laid out. Uh, and it’s just, you know, it’s up to us though, to decode it and to really, um, uh, you know, receive the, the medicine from it.

I have been fortunate to have a spiritual teacher who really does get it and who, uh, is able to hold that kind of space for me and has taught me to hold that space for others. Um, and. Yeah. So yeah, you, like you say, it’s one thing to become conscious of the pattern. I mean, that’s the first step, right? Is, is becoming aware of the pattern.

Um, but then to be able to get, you know, cultivate, uh, present moment awareness to get still enough quiet enough to actually look. At it without judgment, you know, with total curiosity and with unconditional love, you know, for whatever’s arising in our experience. Um, that’s the piece that I see most, uh, people who are, you know, doing their inner work and trying to deconstruct and reconstruct, um, that’s where.

We get tripped up, right? Because the ego speaks first and speaks loudest. And so we’ll go into judgment of the pattern of ourselves for feeling the way that we feel, uh, and not even know that that’s what we’re doing. And, you know, we go into resistance, um, and That just keeps us stuck right there. It keeps that pattern in place.

And that’s exactly what the ego wants, right? Because it doesn’t want to die. It doesn’t want to be transformed because it has a very limited view. It, it confused. It doesn’t know the difference between transformation and annihilation. Right. And so it will use our self image. spiritual, um, path in our awareness against us.

So we have to be, you know, cultivate this level of awareness of, of, of seeing all the different layers of thought. that are being superimposed upon reality and taking us out of really having a direct experience of who and what we are in this now. 

Ronnie Landis: Well, that was again, very just eloquently said, and so on the money and this piece that you just mentioned about having a direct experience, having a direct relationship.

I think that that kind of brings us coming full circle with the original opening of this conversation, which was about. the autoimmune phenomenon. And so, you know, there’s the psycho emotional spiritual physical autoimmune phenomenon that I think really is like what this conversation ultimately is kind of the theme of it.

And so this idea of having a direct experience versus a thinking experience. Oftentimes we get in our way by thinking about the experience versus actually experiencing the experience, feeling the experience, viscerally moving through an experience. A lot of times we can eject into the mind and there’s almost like this narrator.

That starts to pop on that starts to describe the experience. If you catch it, it’s very interesting to, to, to see that. And it’s like, okay, well, wait a minute, who is talking, who is describing this experience that I’m, I’m having, or I’m, I’m trying to have in my physical body.

Angie King: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s really, um, it’s so It is. Yeah. Yeah. And when we can recognize that, you know, we can catch it, um, in the act, right. And it’s, I always, I’ve been, well, yeah, I don’t know in the past. I just find it interesting, you know, in the past several months, it’s really kind of clicked in with me like, Oh, wow.

You know, the ego is very sneaky and yet it’s, it’s in and clever and yet it’s not because it’s actually always showing itself to us, right. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Angie King: Yeah. So it’s always revealing itself. It’s just do, you know, are we, uh, aware enough, right. To allow that our consciousness to be fed by the ego, by what it’s saying, rather than allowing it to, to be fed.

You know, to feed off of our consciousness, right. To just take it at face value and identify with it, but actually step back and look at it and listen to it, you know, and invite it in. Oh, really? Oh, is that so tell me more, you know, um, cause that, you know, when we shine the light of consciousness on it, we see it for what it is.

That’s when it dissolves, you know, it, it just can’t stay. Stay in place. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. It’s like the image that I’m getting is like, it’s a, it’s a, a house of phantom mirrors. Mm-Hmm. and who we are as this immortal, timeless soul. If we are really that, then we are in the center point of our own experience. We are, we are in the captain’s seat of our own experience.

And so a lot of this comes down to being able to track my own centeredness. Am I in center right now? Am I grounded? Am I anchored? Am I secure in my own body or am I being pulled whether it’s left or right, up or down does not matter. Am I being pulled out of center? And if I am, then it feels like to me, at least the process is always about detaching from whatever the thing is that’s pulling me out of center, which is some sort of thought loop, some sort of like emotional reaction or some belief system gone wild.

And then it’s just coming back to center. Through whatever practice, usually some sort of breath practice is usually the way that that plays out for me. Um, I’m, I’m curious what, when, okay, two questions. So one is how can we know when this is happening, what you’re describing? Like, how do we, how can we self diagnose in the moment when the ego is at play?

And, uh, that’s the first question. 

Angie King: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a really great question. Um, well, the body, right? The body is our greatest ally in consciousness. And so if we can get tuned into the body and start, you know, just getting sensitive to its cues, uh, if it doesn’t feel good, That is your cue to recognize that, Oh, I am identified.

I’m being pulled, uh, out of my center by a thought. That’s not true, right? It’s coming from fear. It’s not coming from love. It’s not coming from truth. Otherwise. It would feel really good, but it doesn’t. And so that is always the first cue, you know, we can tune into, um, you know, our, the depth, you know, or shallowness of our breath, our heart rate, our, um, you know, and the emotions that are coming up, you know, and my fear and my anxious and my overwhelmed and my tight, you know, is there tension in my body?

Um, You know, and just sort of notice too, like where that tension tends to live in our bodies. You know, I mean, some women or just people, um, you know, when I’m asking them this, you know, some people it’s really centered in their chest. Some people, it just really goes right to their gut, you know, or to their jaw.

And so bringing awareness to where you tend to tense up, um, when you’re believing, um, you know, an untrue thought to be true when you’re believing it to be you. Really? Um you know, and just beginning to notice how the body cues you and how your nervous system is, is letting you know, um, that, yeah, you’re, you’re not, you’re not in your center.

And 

Ronnie Landis: then, so from there, what are some practices that we can utilize to bring ourself back into center? And maybe even like, what does it feel like To be in center because as obvious as that sounds, if we’re not self aware, or we’re not used to being aware of our center, then it’s helpful to have like an actual navigational map.

Angie King: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s such a good point, you know, that I often point out to my. Clients as well as that, you know, because, you know, we’re often doing these deep processes and, you know, we’ll take our time to really get the body relaxed and, and do some, you know, some breath work and, uh, I’m, I’m guiding them, you know, to let, you know, to look at their watch, you know, notice the thoughts, but then let go, um, consciously let go so that they can be here, have that direct experience.

Because experience, we have to be able to get to that place of having a direct experience of what is here, minus our thoughts, right? Like be behind the thoughts, um, experiencing this moment minus my thoughts about it, in order to have a reference point for what it actually feels like to, to, you know, be having that direct experience of the present moment.

If we don’t have that.

It’s, it’s, we’ll, we’ll get confused, you know, but if we can get to that point, um, that of that direct experiencing of the now and of our truth and who and what we really are, um, that will, we can’t unfeel that. You can’t unknow that once you’ve known it, right? And so that will be your anchor to always come back to.

And also will give you a really good sense of the contrast of what it feels like to be truly present. Uh, and, and the difference between that and, you know, when you’re, when you’re not present. Um, yeah. So it highlights the contrast. We need to know the contrast, 

Ronnie Landis: right? Right. And it becomes like a curiosity portal versus a contract of judgmental.

Um, you know, process and that that’s the spider web, right? Where we get stuck into that, that that’s that webbing of our own subconscious, um, you know, traumas and the stories and the beliefs that we have about ourself, as you’ve pointed out. And I think that’s actually a good place to to go into for a moment.

Like, we all know. That we have belief systems and stories and conditioning and potential traumas, and we know that these things are playing out in our life, whether we’re aware of it or not in your work with clients. How do you help them go through, um, to navigate this process of becoming aware of the beliefs that we have about ourselves?

So for example, it’s very simple and easy to say like, Oh yeah, I don’t feel good enough. Great. Awesome. That’s, that’s fantastic. What the heck am I going to do with that? I don’t feel good enough. So what, so then it’s like, okay, well, what’s my, what do I do about that? I just, I feel better about myself. I, I do things that make me feel better about myself.

I mean, sure. Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but I’m kind of like walking through a very like beginner Almost like self evident process of someone trying to figure out what the deeper issues are and what to do about it. Um, because we, we hear this all the time, right? Like, you know, I don’t feel good enough.

I don’t feel worthy. Um, but then it becomes, well, what a, why, and then we could go down that rabbit hole for potentially our entire life trying to figure that out. And then what do I do with that? Or what do I do about that? Does that all make sense? 

Angie King: Yeah, it does. Yeah. Um, well, of course, you know, there’s some layers above that right above like actually getting to because most of us don’t, you know, we’re not consciously thinking, Oh, well, I just don’t feel good enough, you know, it’s like more like, um, Gosh, I keep doing this thing, you know, I just cannot like in the context of like women and, and weight and behavior.

Um, you know, I, I have this overwhelming urge to binge, you know, I had a really stressful day, um, or I had a fight with my partner or my mom and, you know, and now I just want to, you know, just gorge on Reese’s peanut butter cups. Right. So it’s like. Okay. Let, you know, thank you for sharing. Like, let’s just look at that, you know?

Okay. You know, and just getting a sense of, okay, how do you, how did you feel in your body? You know, like what, let’s slow it down and look at what were the thoughts that were coming up for you, you know, like, okay, she doesn’t care about me. Right. Or, um, I I’ll always, I’ll never, I’ll never be able to like, get what I want.

When’s it going to be my turn, you know, to have what I want. 

That 

comes up a lot with thyroid issues. Um, so, you know, it’s just. Yeah. And so it’s just like, okay, let’s just slow it down and like, look at, okay, what are the, how do you feel on your body? What are the thoughts that are coming up? You know? And so we’ll get into a meditative state, you know, and, and just really like look at and listen, listen to the ego.

It’s revealing itself. Right. And then just kind of following those breadcrumbs and getting down, 

Ronnie Landis: you’re coaxing it out. 

Angie King: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a process. Right. And we have to get relaxed and still enough to be able to come into that place of self observation. Right. And, and yeah, and coaxing it out, looking at, okay, what ego is at play, you know, and we talk about the ego, but really there are many, many egos right at play all in the same, at the same time, the same psyche.

It’s just one is. 

Ronnie Landis: Right. Right. 

Angie King: Yeah. And so, um, and so it’s really just isolating because there are so many layers and we just do this one layer at a time, you know, there’s a lot of work to do, but it’s just one layer at a time of shining the light of consciousness on whatever ego is at play. Um, and then we begin to, you know, we get down to it and okay, maybe that is the story of I’m not good enough or I’m not, Um, you know, not loved, uh, I’ll never be, be loved, whatever it is.

And then we start to comprehend it. Comprehension, right? Awareness is curative. So this is how we dismantle that ego is we, you know, we ask some questions, we get curious. Oh, okay. Um, well, first of all, is it true? You know, is that 100 percent verifiably true? Hmm. Okay. Well, maybe it feels true, but is it actually true, right?

Ronnie Landis: That’s not to interrupt. I just want just that’s a very important distinction because we’re we’re kind of like in a very Feely kind of mode in our culture and I think there’s a lot of a lot to do with like dopamine impulses and addiction It’s very like What I feel like or even the spiritual community is like, Oh, I feel like it or I don’t feel like it feeling away about something is very different than the empirical truth of something.

So I just wanted to just throw that in there. That’s basically what I heard you say. 

Angie King: Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. That’s a really great point, and yeah, we talk about like, um, you know, being guided by our intuition and and feeling it out, you know, like, like jaguar medicine, you know, like feeling it all, sniffing it all out with our senses, but there has to be a level of discernment, right, of like, where is this feeling really coming from, because there is a thought behind every feeling.

Right. That’s the, the first level of causation is thought. And so, you know, is that coming from a thought that’s actually true? Um, or, or is it coming from a thought that’s not true? Uh, and we will know, we can know by how it feels, you know, um, because even when we’re being misguided by our feelings, if we really get still enough and quiet enough and observant enough, we’ll, there will be some tension that we might be just overlooking.

Um, you know, because we’re trying to get to some outcome, you know, because there’s an ego at play that’s driving that. So it’s, um, yeah, it’s, it’s very, 

Ronnie Landis: you just said something I think is so profound. So I think, and that’s also part of the distinction in this navigation process too. I know this about my own life.

When I’m attached to something being an outcome being a specific way, that’s when the, my ability to detect and to navigate my feelings and emotions can get very convoluted because ultimately I’m attached to something looking or appearing or playing out a particular way. So from A to Z, anything that interferes with that within my own paradigm, within my own belief system, Is going to create contraction because I’m already creating a stranglehold on the way something needs to be and the way that I think it’s going to be or that I think it needs to be is always Is always a limitation.

It’s never ever the truth. And so what I’m what I’m what I’d like to, um, I know we’re kind of we’re running up on on time here, but this is such a good conversation. There’s so many nuances. I love to get, I just love to get your take on that basically, like, like the, like how important is it to release the expectation of something is we have our goals, like in the case of like losing weight loss, obviously like part of the goal is to, you know, release or shed some weight, but I feel like there’s a piece around here around letting go or detaching from the outcome in order to actually achieve the outcome and so much more.

Angie King: Yes. Oh, yes. So spot on. I’m so glad you’re highlighting that. Um, yeah, it’s everything really, you know, we, we do have to let go of attachment to the outcome. We can have a vision, we can have a goal, you know, and, and we can trust it. That’s the thing we have to trust. We have to trust that. It will be so as long as we are coming into alignment, you know, with the truth of who we are and, and trusting, trusting in the body to, um, you know, shape shift according to, um, uh, you know, the conditions that we’re there, we’re creating, you know, for it to be able to shape shift.

Letting go of that attachment to outcome is key because if we’re so focused on that, that’s, that is going to create, um, uh, dysregulation in the nervous system, right? It’s going to activate that fight, flight, freeze response, and then we’re not getting anywhere, right? That’s off this whole physiological cascade and the adrenals and, um, and hormones and, and metabolism, that’s not going to actually allow us to have the very thing that we’re wanting.

It’s going to go counter to that. And yeah, it, it, it’s all about letting go of attachment to outcome and trusting, you know, that. Um, that things will unfold in a perfect way as long as we are, um, you know, just keeping our eye on, uh, finding the truth and coming back to the truth of our being. It really, you’re reminding me of, um, I’ve been reading this.

It’s beautiful version of the bug of I need to, um, I’m going to butcher his last name. It’s Eknath as we’re off, I believe something like that. Um, we can verify that later, but, um, you know, and it’s, it’s just, it’s, I had no idea that the bug of a Geetha was so relevant, you know, to modern life, but it’s timeless and Krishna, you know, it’s having this, this conversation with Arjuna and, and he just keeps driving it home.

Gotta let go of attachment to outcome, you know, let it all, let all of that go, just be in service. Keep your eyes on me, have a meditative practice, you know, let all of it go and just keep your eye on me. And, you know, you will have everything that you ever, you know, want or need. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s so it’s such a timeless principle for for how to operate in life effectively and also like as a as a healthy insane human being really and you know that’s so much of like what this podcast has been like for me since 2015 and I think this is like going to be episode 230 or something and I took some time off and now I’m you know really Back to doing weekly episodes and going to be doing a lot more solo episodes and it’s really just my gift of service.

Like I don’t have any particular business or monetary goals. I, I will eventually as I, as I, you know, develop more of a structure and, and, you know, more of a professional studio and everything, but I’m not quite there right now. And I don’t not trying to be, it’s certainly part of a bigger purpose and dream, but that’s very much what this podcast has always been.

Like I don’t make. Any money from this or, you know, whatever promotions and stuff it’s indirect, but that’s not really why I do this. It’s not why I’m having this conversation with you. Like I reached out to you because I have a podcast and I have an audience and I thought, wow, that’s, that will be a great conversation and I don’t have a particular outcome.

And so, you know, that, that’s, that’s kind of just one example of exactly what you’re articulating. And also it keeps me sane, to be honest, like to be able to have these conversations, um, is also like largely for me because it also gives me the human interaction that I need and don’t, and oftentimes don’t realize that I need, because otherwise I’d be, you know, doing a lot of other computer work or things that, that, um, are, are, are.

You know, quote unquote, productive or creative, but are also very isolating in nature. And so that that’s like, that’s kind of what I thought of, at least for me personally, um, as far as like being of service in a way that’s authentic, it’s aligned, but it’s also like detached from any particular, um, overarching outcome.

Angie King: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a beautiful, um, A beautiful act of service, you know, that year that you’re doing, they’re having this podcast and, and I agree. Um, I’m so lit up by this conversation and it’s a beautiful, uh, you know, just a pattern interrupt, you know, from all the computer work and, you know, just the, the, the behind the scenes work that I’m doing, uh, you know, to, to get my message out there, but to come on here and just talk with you and have this deep.

Conversation. Uh, yeah, it’s really beautiful. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. Amazing. Um, I mean, I, me too. And, and I, I think this conversation has so many different layers that we could keep going deep into. I’m really, really grateful for where we’ve been able to go and how much we’ve been able to lay out. And it’s felt like as much as it may feel Um, you know, like metaphysical in nature, like this has been incredibly practical and pragmatic, and I feel like everybody listening to this has A lot of very practical tools that they can implement, but also expanding their conscious awareness of what’s possible.

And so with that said,

what, what do you feel would be very useful for anyone listening to this that’s gone on this journey with us, um, to help them integrate some of these pieces that they’re working with, whether it be women that are dealing with weight loss, it’d be like, Any kind of psycho emotional challenges that we’re experiencing is probably a combination of all of them.

You know, if you’re a human being in this time right now, you’re probably going through all of it at different, different chapters of your life. Um, so I’m just, uh, yeah, I want to open it up to whatever wisdom comes through for you to, uh, tie a bow on this conversation. 

Angie King: Yeah, well, yeah, I think I would like to just highlight, um, You know, but kind of going back to what you were asking about, like the practical application of how do we actually, you know, um, go beyond just being aware, you know, of a pattern and actually, um, resolving it, deconstructing it.

The, the first thing, you know, is to, um, you know, have some way of, of relaxing the body. Right. And the breath is, is, uh, so accessible, right. And so, um, you know, research shows that seven deep breath, it takes seven deep, slow rhythmic breaths. To help switch the nervous system out of fight, flight, freeze, right.

And back into like rest and repair. And so that’s a really practical way to get oneself into the space of the present moment and to be able to self observe. Um, and. And also just, you know, a little, another little tip is that judgment and curiosity cannot exist within the same space. And so we want to be curious in order to decode our body’s messaging in order to, um, you know, work with it at truly as an ally.

We have to get curious with it, right. And stay out of judgment. And so getting the body and the mind relaxed and quiet, and then going into that place of, of curiosity, um, with, you know, what’s really, what, what, what am I really, what am I feeling here? You know, and. Um, where’s that coming from? You know, is it true?

Where’s it really coming from? You know, when’s the first time I ever felt this way, you know, that’s where we can really then go back and do some of that deeper work, get into the subconscious and do the inner child work that needs to happen, but just comprehending, you know, where’s it, where’s this really coming from?

Where, when’s the first time I ever felt this way? When’s the last time I actually felt this way? You know, most recently, um. And if I continue to listen to this voice, this ego that’s at play, what are the consequences of that? 

What 

does this voice really want for me? You know, let me just take this and play it out.

If I, if I just go along with this narrative, where does that put me? In five, 10, 15 years from now, where does that, how, where does that put me even on my deathbed? How am I feeling about my life? If I continue to identify with this thought and when we really look at it, you know, and look at the consequences and the implications of, of playing out this, this false narrative, that’s when we can really come to a place of making a conscious choice about.

Whether or not we want to continue, um, you know, doing the bidding of this ego, uh, or whether we want to flip the script. And, you know, play out a narrative that’s based in true love energy, you know, and that takes us toward, you know, our highest expression and that liberates our spirit. Um, like that’s really, that’s, that’s what needs to happen.

You know, one layer at a time, one ego at a time. And we have to have infinite patience for our process, right? Because, Uh, it’s never ending and, um, and, but, but we’re doing really good work one layer at a time. That’s really the only way to, to, to do it, you know? And so we have to have infinite patience for our process because if we’re not having infinite patience for our process, we’re going into, uh, here I am again, you know, I should be over this by now.

I should be through with this. Um, then you’re right back in, in the, um, in the false narrative and you’re perpetuating it and it’s taking you away from your Dharma. You’re actually creating karma now, right. By being in judgment of your process and not having that infinite patience. So, um, I just wanted to like, I think, I think that’s pretty good.

I think that, you know, yeah, I’ll just leave it there. I just wanted to get that in there and, and that kind of work is. You know, if you’re not accustomed to doing that kind of work, it really does help to have someone who is, and who knows how to hold that space for you. Um, no matter how, where you are on your spiritual journey, if you’re just starting out, or if you’ve been at this a while, it’s still really helpful to have someone hold that space for you because, you know, it’s so easy to, to slide into that false narrative and not know it and think you’re actually doing.

You know, some effective work when you’re really not. 

Ronnie Landis: It’s so true. And speaking of which, where can everybody find out about you and your work? 

Angie King: Yeah, well, mostly, uh, social media. So I’m on Facebook as Angie King. I’m on Instagram as goddess body Academy. Um, I can share a link to, uh, have a free training, um, for women who are, you know, on a weight loss journey.

And really I work with women who are. You know, you don’t have to be like this highly advanced spiritual guru or anything, but just, just enough of curiosity and openness, you know, to, uh, doing the deeper work, you know, just that willingness that that’s really the women who I work with, who are open to doing the deeper work and not just, you know, continuing on with, um, you know, toxic diet culture who want out of that.

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. 

Angie King: Um, So I can share a link to my free training. And also I do a monthly, um, donation based shamanic healing clinic. And that can be a really great way, you know, for us to interact and for me to, you know, offer, you know, do my, my part as far as like being of selfless service, um, and just offering my gifts and, um, you know, helping to move the energy, uh, and, you know, open up, you know, more.

Uh, pathways, you know, for, for transformation and deeper healing. 

Ronnie Landis: Beautiful, beautiful. We’ll, we’ll have those links. And the show notes and, um, anything else that we went through today. So Angie, this was absolutely an incredible conversation, far beyond my expectations. Really grateful that we got to dive deep together and, um, you’re doing amazing work.

So thank you so much for showing up and being part of the show. 

Angie King: Thank you so much. Ronnie blew my expectations out of the water, although I knew it would be good. I know you’re such a deep, soul and so intelligent and such a great, um, interviewer. And so I’m just honored to, you know, get to have this conversation with you.

And, um, yeah, I, I look forward to, uh, just staying connected with you and, um, being where, where we go. 

Ronnie Landis: Absolutely. Thank you so much.