Ronnie Landis: Welcome to the Holistic Health and Human Potential Podcast.

I am your host, Ronnie Landis. I’m an international speaker, author of multiple books, an integrative nutritionist, a transformation and embodiment coach, and simply a man who’s devoted most of my life to the study, application and It’s an integration of human potential, and it is my biggest inspiration to bring you weekly episodes that will expand your mind, challenge your paradigm, deepen your heart, and help you to embody the greatest version of yourself, as I believe you are meant to do something incredible with your life, and this podcast exists simply to support you on that journey.

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Holistic Human Optimization Show. I am your host as always, Ronnie Landis. And we have an incredible episode lined up for you right here. And now this is the second interview between myself and Mr. Michael Tesarian. If you had not listened to the first interview we did not very long ago, if you go back on the podcast scroll, it’s, um, it’s only five or six episodes.

Past. So I highly recommend going back over that. We had incredible feedback from that episode. Um, some of the most, some of the biggest volumes of people and positive feedback, people that just were enriched by that conversation. So highly recommend you go back over that. But in the here and now, we have Michael back on, and Michael in my.

Perspective, my experience studying, um, studying his work is one of the foremost, I would say legends in the truth movement, if we can use that term, um, and his work really expands so far beyond, I guess, the borders of, What traditionally or what you used to hear in this this kind of work one that that was one of the things that we we were kind of touching on before we started recording this, um, just the necessity for the different dimensions of topics and perspectives and insights and tools on the spiritual path, on the psychological empowerment path, on the quote unquote truth movement path.

As we all seek a greater level of self empowerment seeking greater meaning in our life and also just really Trying to figure out what the heck is going on in this crazy world, you know And and how to how to deprogram from the program so to speak which is Such a hallmark of your work and you you hit on so many interesting Um, interesting territories of that, which is what attracted me to your work and what inspired so much of my direction in my work to shift just a little bit to go into those areas that, especially in the health and nutrition field is not very traditional, but it’s so implicit with that work because, you know, 90 percent of diet is psychological.

It’s all about compliance. You can know what to do and you can know that you have a health issue, but that doesn’t necessarily get you into the door, right? It’s, it’s about. It’s, it’s a, it’s a bit of an inner journey from, um, you know, being overweight or having some kind of disease or crisis or just making those fundamental changes that somebody needs to do to, um, you know, to live a healthier and more, um, you know, heart based life.

So with that said, it’s an honor and pleasure to have you on for the second time, Michael, how are you doing? 

Michael Tsarion: Oh, well, well, and great, great to be able to continue the discussion. And I agree wholeheartedly with that because, uh, they’re not disconnected by any means, you know, uh, anything to do with a conspiracy or alternative subject matter is a holy work.

And to think that, uh, you know, well, Pythagoras and all, you know, these, think of people like Paracelsus, some of the greatest sages were some of the greatest herbalists, some of the greatest exponents, Steiner was, Goethe was, you know, they, they understood the role of the body. Uh, And that is, you know, even the Bible, it says temple of the living God, you know, so the people treat it that way.

You see that there’s a double standard there, uh, you know, and on an, on a larger note, anyone who’s followed my work and knows about ancestral trauma, you know, my heroes, you know, Emerson, what was that line? He said that man is a, uh, you know, uh, a God. I mean, if that isn’t earth shattering enough, you know, the whole principle being devolution, and he’s talking about then this ancestral trauma that is the root of all conspiratorial aspects.

When you pull this, you know, thread that leads to the rope, that leads to the whale in the room, it turns out that, They have, we talked about this before, that they, they’re exploiting anything that you could consider a controller, either on a low level of the pyramid or the very highest. They’ve got one formula, and that is pull the rug, because man is already traumatized.

Now, if one thinks seriously and unbiasedly, and they listen to us and say, okay, I got it, I got it, I even read some of your sources, yeah, we are traumatized, I’ve, I’ve studied the psychology, I believe it, but where do I begin healing it? You know where right in your own form, right in your own being, because it’s in your marrow, it’s in your fibers, it’s in your meridians, it’s in your cells, it’s not just in the head, it is, it is in the head in the, in a metaphorical sense when we talk about the unconscious, but as my work has labored to show the unconscious is the body, how long, why did it take so long to, well, it took so long because the people who spoke about this, like, well, I’m right, we’re thrown into federal stockades, wonder why.

What was he doing that a hundred thousand other medicants and physicians weren’t doing? He was telling exactly what I’m saying that the, you know, he didn’t use the word, but the shadow, the unconscious, in other words, the darker aspects of your own being, which were how they got to be shadow archetypes or shadow content is through force, through the oppression of the parents and your society, right?

To be a certain way. And that was forced. Now that force. Is bio bio electric. It’s bio it’s a psychosomatic, right? It has a psychic aspect and it has a very physical aspect in the armoring of the, of the body and various repressions. And it affects the parasympathetic system. Like can’t, can’t believe it affects what’s known as the poly vagal system, which runs the whole apparatus.

I think we talked about before, you know, when they’ve actually now really analyzed the brainstem, it’s 80 percent information coming from the body to the brain and only 20 percent going the other way. Hello, Will Heimerich, hello, uh, bioenergy and all the disciplines, right? From Tai Chi and, and, and Qigong and all the related stuff that you’re into now come of age.

It’s actually, we didn’t need these. White suits, you know, to prove this. Everyone who’s studied independently knows this. But in the same time, it’s also important for the, for the lay person that, that is endorsed. Well, it is being endorsed by the senior people in Stanford and Hoover Institute and all of this.

They are now being forced to capitulate on many, many areas. And although they’re not going totally towards a mystical or idealistic paradigm, that’ll take a few more thousand years, but they’re moving in that direction. They’re moving so slowly that the passengers on the ship don’t realize, isn’t the sun meant to be on the other side?

I thought we were heading in this direction. Yeah. There’s a slow U turn taking place out of materialism, but it’s so gradual. But another thing, another thing I was also, when you see the overweight people and the people in terrible, terrible health, uh, you know, when I was outside today, I had to remark on it again.

And the thing is that that is control. Because it’s not all about the person’s will. It’s about the paradigm of unheroic existence. You know, so when you, when you look at a Bruce Lee or you look at somebody like that, you’re seeing, you know, you’re seeing like, and there’s some of these great martial art films and all the rest of it, you’re seeing heroism.

It may be in a sloppy Hollywood, pretty sort of like grandiose way, but strip all that away, right? Strip your Conan, the barbarians, even your dirty Harry’s and whatever you might have in this age, you know, with your, with your, uh, sword and sorcerer stuff, and even the more recent versions strip all the, you know, the cartoon elements away, and you’re dealing with the theme of heroism, right?

And it can so easily go wrong, you know, with the school shootings and the kids sort of being feral. They don’t really know what’s going on, because they can’t reach it yet, because there’s such a tension inside of how to leave the old and get to the new, and then jumping that rap, that uh, crevasse, can feel like you’ll fall into the abyss.

So I sympathize. But when you see that ill health on all levels, it is a sign of control. Because of the rugs have been pulled from under your spirit and under your will and something has to be done about that Otherwise, we’re gonna really, you know, we’re really the whole human race is gonna suffer 

Ronnie Landis: I’m brilliantly said there’s so many points that you brought up that I could that I could easily piggyback on and create an entire Podcast just on that one perspective it actually interestingly There’s two points that you brought up that lead into two initiatory questions that I have so one of them around courage and And fear and turning fear into courage, which we’ll, we’ll, we’ll get into that.

But to, to kind of expand on this, um, and then maybe even bring even broader perspective, my first question, I want to just contextualize it just a little bit to get to it. Um, you know, talking about health and wellness for me over the last 10 years, my work has been mostly focused on. Natural health and nutrition and bringing people into more of a cyclical connection to the rhythms of nature through what they eat You know getting off processed food gmo food false foods and that kind of thing And um, you know over the recent years and especially through diving into your work one of the aspects of health and wellness that i’ve been really focused on more and more both with my clients and my public message is Not only the integration of practical psychological and esoteric themes But Really helping people discover the intrinsic meaning in their life journey as a way to live a more fulfilling authentic life Because I believe you know wellness is about fulfillment, right?

And we live in a culture that is that’s really about dopaminergic and more of like hedonistic drives and For avoiding a deep sense of existent or a deep sense of meaning, which I really feel like creates this existential angst and we have this overwhelming, um, epidemic of anxiety and subclinical depression or heightened depression.

And, um, you know, this whole, this whole drive to avoid pain, seek pleasure and create those kind of like pleasure, pain, or I mean, the pleasure reward centers in the brain get hyper stimulated. Those people are always pushing that dopamine receptor, the pleasure, this, the coffee, this, the alcohol, this, the weed, this, the tobacco, the cigarettes, the pornography, whatever, whatever escape mechanism they can to actually avoid that like existential angst.

And so I guess kind of where I’m going with this is really. I want to get your perspective on the necessity of obtaining a greater sense of meaning in one’s life as the true path to self liberation from addictive habits and the inauthentic self because, you know, I feel like really what people are searching when they’re going outside of themselves for all these like little medications and, you know, tranquilizing tools.

They’re, they’re, they’re void of meaning, right? Okay. And I feel like the health, the health thing for me, the more and more I probed into it, really health and wellness has to do with fulfillment and having a deep sense of meaning. 

Michael Tsarion: And that will be assisted by what you first said when it comes to nature.

You see, I say in my work that the society culture, which is very necessary, we could talk for hours about them, it’s called the mitwelt, you know, in existential psychology. And it’s part of yourself, it’s part of a trinity that you are. So nobody’s dissing, you know, uh, The existence of the other or the existence of your bonds socially, but there’s also the um wealth, which means the all surrounding nature.

What the hell is that? You know, uh, most people have lost their connection to that. They’re so absorbed either in the eigen weld, which is the self, which then becomes a narcissistic thing. If you pull completely back. And by the way, there’s a huge, huge engine behind this need. Uh, part of the pulling the rug, if we were to extrapolate upon that, it is to so lose your morale.

Yeah. Right. Just like an army has a morale and if they don’t trust the leader or some other thing undercuts the morale, they lose the war. Well, we are slowly losing. We’re getting disenchanted. You see the headlines and, and the, you know, KGB central, make sure that we’re so inundated with disbelief in our politicians and the Western models.

And that’s, that’s a drip feed torture system by which you so lose. Faith in government and local government and bigger government. And it seems inevitable that we should give him the headlines. We’re not aware of the force behind it. They never point out the good. They always point out the evil. And then of course they put evil people in control.

And so you, yeah, of course we’re, we’re worried about them, you know, and the good man never seems to get to the top, but what’s really happening there is the undercutting of morale. Which then forces you, it’s like a sucking implosion back into the cell. Well, if I can’t trust my neighbors and the people in the world, they’re all sucks.

They’re all labor. They’re all, they’re all right wing extremists or they’re all snowflakes. So I have no voice. So I’m just gonna look after me and mine. And that’s the inevitable narcissism. They push the right button. But coming back to the point, Umweld is their nature. Unless you, and I say that the Midweld.

Or the social life, the cultural life is the mirror of the ego. So we have a thing called an ego and that’s right. We have it, but it’s pumped and pumped and pumped and it’s Stimulated and it’s engaged with mostly the midwell because the midwell is where the mirror of the ego is. It’s a social construction You know going to school, you know You know you have literally then Follow the direction of every peer, be it the, starting with the parents, but everybody, you just, you haven’t walked on your own feet.

You follow directions and that leads then to, you know, your engagement with the midwelf, that then becomes your personality, the pseudo self or the ego. The nature is the mirror of the self. So you’ve got to subvert, you see, the normal course of action and this is the origin of health because now The answer to your question, you could not make those psychic shifts out of the nightmare, out of the Bastille, the cage, unless you have a voice in your head that’s guiding you.

And that’s, let’s just call it nature or being or spirit, if you will. And that’s drowned out by the noise of the midwell. So something very perfect, our culture and what our culture does for us. And then when we engage with our culture, that’s, that’s, that’s huge. But unfortunately, that’s not really that vocational, ultimately speaking, it can be, but it’s mostly recreational, right?

And it is. Occupational, and you’re caught there. And a lot of people are not okay with that. Most people listening to us right now are not okay with that, and that’s damn good. Recreation, because just look at the, look at the hundreds of thousands that come to watch a stupid soccer match. And you can go back to the 1950s or 40s and just awe.

I just saw a black and white film the other day where they were showing the Olympics of various countries. I’m, I was absolutely shocked at how many people turned up for that, but you couldn’t get them that same crowd turning up for one other little injustice somewhere else, you know, and then the, the, the occupational, well, that’s all around you.

That’s dad and mom going to work. That’s the cubicles. That’s the high rises. You can’t tell me that doesn’t exist. That’s the guy pulling up, you know, to fill the water cooler and deliver the coal and the milk and whatever else, you know, occupation surrounds us. And we get so used to it that we start to use that as a, You know, as a, as a statement of wellbeing, if I’m not doing that, if I’m not sitting in my cubicle, if I’m not in four hour traffic, if I’m not pumping until it hurts in that mode, I feel unfulfilled.

I might even blow my brains out, or I certainly might have to go on medication because I don’t fit in. I’m not very productive. You see, so the recreational life, the sporting nonsense and the, and the way it’s presented, and also the occupational life that is mostly engagement with the midwelt or the society and culture.

And it can still be very healthy, but I personally don’t see too many people reaching the sort of vocational level there. Uh, and that makes perfect sense because I don’t think you can. We talked about this earlier. I don’t think you can reach the vocational without being guided by spirit. And that also includes the body.

Well, you know, we’ll get to that in a minute, but so nature being the mirror of the self, you better spend more time in it. And then again, it’s the kind of time that you spend in it. And when you spend the right kind of time in it. You will be guided. And the first step along the way, all I can say is this, is that you will discover very slowly consciousness isn’t about intellect or thinking at all.

It’s about feeling. This is one of the things that will happen when you’re in nature a lot. Thinking, well, it’s just like a water wheel going round and round and round. You won’t be able to engage with the sunset, you see, and the leaves and the water dripping off the leaves and the animals just by pure intellect.

You know, what is it? Well, it’s a fox. That means it’s not a coyote. I’m okay. It was a grizzly. Not a black bear. Oh, you know, it’s an oak, not a maple. Huh? That’s not engaging with nature. That’s seeing the particulars again. That’s how you’ve been trained. You know, nature is a whole, a totality. And you have to awaken a kind of cognition or say a conceptualization that can step back and, you know, grasp wholeness.

So what I’m saying is in the Midweld and even in the Eigenwelt, you’re not grasping wholeness. You have an intuition of it way back here, but it never comes to the fore. In nature, when you’re really in nature, what happens is you’re not seeing the human artifacts. And so your intellect that is the machine that runs your world when you’re in the lie, so to speak.

And I use that again, you know, It’s slightly ungenerous because I said there’s a need for our culture and there’s a need for, you know, selfhood in that sense. To make it really, really clear, when you’re in nature in the true way, feeling is now going to matter more. And then you’ve learned a very key thing, which is, as I say in a minute, it’ll impact.

The health situation, because once you’ve understood that consciousness is mostly feeling, not intellect, intellect is derivative of feeling so that when you think, well, I’m thinking about myself, I think about myself, I think about myself a lot, you know, I think about it, but you’re actually not thinking at all about yourself.

You’re feeling it’s evaluation. And it’s a perpetual cycle of evaluating. How do I feel now? And repeated in seconds later by constant reevaluation. So consciousness. Is feeling and it’s feeling again and again and again. I went into this in one of my articles called light magic masonry. And therefore when you realize this, you see that when that process is set up of feeling what we call thought or intellect is Part of it’s a derivative part of it.

One thing, you know comes out of the other In fact, even the feeling has an origin which is symbolism and imagery I mean the thing is doesn’t just start with feeling feeling has its own origin, but we don’t need to talk about that right now So how it gets to your health is because once you realize that you’re numb You By living in those suburbs, by talking the shit, you know, the cafe and then the schools and all that shit, you’re not feeling, it’s just a word.

When you go into nature, you suddenly click into this eventually. Oh my God, I have not, I’ve not been feeling, I don’t. So when I talk about knowing myself or thinking about myself or working out problems about myself and what about my relationship problems? What about this problem? I’m only addressing them with intellect, which just leads me, it might fix that problem, but it leads me into a whole bunch of other problems as well.

I’m not using. What consciousness is really about, which is feeling. Now here, here’s where the second step comes in. Say, say you are, are starting to work with this feeling and you are connecting with your feelings, but I’m going to, I’m going to more let, let my feelings guide me. How can you be 400 pounds

and feel good? I don’t think you can. How can you be drinking liter Cokes, right? And eating God knows what poisons. As long as you’re caught in the intellect, you’ll carry on doing it because it’s all sunny on TV and it’s, it’s what everybody else is doing. The moment you awaken feeling, feeling is of the, includes the body, intellect does not.

It sits at the top. It’s because it has to sit at the top. And even working some of the things we’re talking about out in this sort of more didactic way. I don’t, you know, it helps, but it’s not going to really help. Feeling yourself, feeling the numbness in your body, feeling the, you know, the tension and the armoring and you’re not live.

You’re not, uh, loose. Yeah. Et cetera, right? You stiff and all the rest of it that comes about with feeling. So what you’re dealing with now, when you look at a lot of people around the world, and this might include even some people who think they’re into health, they’re not feeling, and it will show in the body.

And then finally the body will react against the fact that you’re not feeling because it wants, it wants to talk to you through how am I feeling, you know, and we’ve lost that in the West. So Tai Chi and Qi Gong is ultimately about, forget about the technique and it, you know, all that, all that technique that’s important to, and it’s good to learn, but what, what all those disciplines are trying to get you back into.

It’s the feeling aspect of your feet on the ground, of your spine being straight, of your head, of your breath, right, you know? And many other things, if you’re playing an instrument, you can learn this as well, sort of through the back doors, going, What is this? Right? Tiny tremors in your fingers that shouldn’t be there, but they are.

Why? You know? How do I erase it? A different compartment, a completely different yogic object. Sensibility comes along, which affects your posture, your grounding. And don’t you need grounding when you’re dealing with the flux of other people throwing you off your kilter, if you’re, if you go out on grounded, you’ll be attacked, you’ll be psychically attacked and you’ll be discombobulated and you will not be able to hold your ground and your will will be weaker, you know?

So feeling connects with will. As well, because your will is not something that’s directed by the intellect. It’s directed by the feeling which is true consciousness And so the more the more that you feel in a certain place and you find your gauge you find where you are You know on the meter everybody’s different But the moment that you click into that normal sense of feeling nobody can fuck with your body or your mind Because you have your center now and then your will is directed from that center and it won’t get uh, Contaminated or, you know, skewed, maybe temporarily, but it immediately comes back to focus because you’re in your feeling center.

And unfortunately, intellect does not give us that center. It’s not for that, so don’t expect it to give you that. It gives you other kinds of, you know, readings of the world, but the introvert, I call it central version because other words like introversion have become connected with solipsism, you know, wrongly, you know, and we, we don’t like that word, especially Americans don’t like the term introversion, never have.

So I use the word central version, which is as if you’re coming back to your center. And this is, and coming back to your center is a thing that often can be done even, even in a bodily way, you know, where you just boom, you’re back to your center. But again, just to make this simple point, if you’re, if you’re not a feeling person, yeah, you can gain weight, you don’t want to stop eating, you know, your fridge is full of rubbish.

You don’t know, because intellect is saying, well, it’s okay, you know, it’s all right, or whatever. Or tomorrow I’ll work it off or whatever, but feeling has been screaming at you for years. This is not right. You’re not in your center. You’re not, you’re not a heroic being. 

Ronnie Landis: I mean, so many brilliant points.

There’s so many things that come up for me. One, one of them, you know, is, is this, this binary mind that our society has been locked into? It’s this like hyper literalism, linear linear realism. And the phrase that comes up for me is timeless mind, ageless body. Right. And that’s, that’s like, that’s just like an incredible, incredible thing to ponder because if we’re in the mind, which is always trying to manage time or the way that we believe time is, is this linear kind of, um, by, you know, by linear kind of thing where we’re always, there’s always like, you know, one, two, three, four, it’s not even an accurate set of mathematics has nothing to do with the fire ratio or the Fibonacci sequence, which is, which is exponential versus linear.

Okay. Um, and it’s, it’s not inclusive. One of the things you, you had mentioned kind of throwing a few different thoughts out there, but one of the things you had mentioned was wholeness, right? And I can’t stop, but think about this binary mind that we’ve been trained into instead of getting into a trinary mind where it’s all inclusive and there’s multiple dimensions of our, our reality.

There’s multiple dimensions of our life that are not compartmentalized, but they’re all integrated. And I feel like. Part of the problem here for people, whether, whether it’s this anxiety that comes up when they’re like, Oh, I got this thing over here. I got this thing over here. Ultimately their center is being pulled in multiple different directions.

They’re fighting with time and their, their, their interpretation of time. Time is pressuring on them because we only have so much of it. Right. And so there’s this, this hyper movement to like manage time, do all the things we got to do and somehow stay in our center. When our energy is being diverted in multiple directions.

So to me, that feels like, you know, when you say wholeness. It really feels like, um, having a, having a holistic or an integrative sense of not only our external life, like all the different pieces and puzzle pieces that go on our external life and making sure that we’re making the decisions or the choices to invest our energy in places that are actually giving to us, not robbing us, but also, also our inner journey.

Right.

Michael Tsarion: Is all that makes sense? I was kind of throwing a few different thoughts out. Yeah, I just was muted. You see, yeah, let’s look at it this way. I can’t remember who said it, but there’s only one health and many diseases. And what he was saying was that, um, to try and find this, you know, elixir, this point of health is an art.

And as I say, uh, I think, let’s look at it this way, connecting it to, you know, what we said about Emerson, that we’re devolved beings. Part of that devolution of being is bioenergetic immunity. We don’t just lose our spiritual intelligence, the way that, say, Blake so beautifully drew our, you know, we’ve lost our senses, we’re down, you know, we’re like, we’re, we’re, we’re lower.

Like in the Kabbalah, let’s say, or some Vedic thing, you know, where they’re showing you that you’ve fallen from a great height and you’re in a sleep, sort of a coma of souls, right? But, uh, I think it was, uh, I’ll remember the author later, but he was kind of saying that, look, this fall is also the fall of a physical immunity against disease.

Because he was looking at it from this theosophical point of view, the disease and pathogens are coming to you because you’re not well. 

Ronnie Landis: Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 

Michael Tsarion: It’s like, stop right fucking there, right? Dead meat or half dead meat. Yeah, it’s rotting. So you’re going to get some maggots turning up, right?

Crows will come around, even a hat. The thing isn’t dead yet. They’re, they’re, but they’re flying above because they know. Dinner on the way, right? So, he was saying that the spiritual devolution has left us in such a toxic, anti living state, right, uh, unvital state, let’s say, that now the diseases of the world are around.

Of course, I know a lot of people thought about that. She was like, I mean, just look at the whole thing. And then out of that comes a medical leviathan based on that premise. Like, hey, you can’t take it into your own hands. You know, you’ve got to lie to us because the world is full of pathogens and disease.

But whatever criticisms we have of that, the fact remains, why do we have disease? Because there’s been some sort of fall or devolution. And I’m saying that unless you return to feeling right, you can’t get to that one health. You can’t even get to it because, you know, it’s almost like the disease. The good thing about being surrounded by disease is it’s pushing you in the direction towards health.

So, you know, there’s a Chinese in Chinese medicine or in Chinese hieroglyphics, the glyph for crisis is made up of two glyphs. One is danger and the other is opportunity. So somebody had it nailed. We’ve just got to learn that simple thing. I believe that the most healthy person is the one who was once very unhealthy.

Because he was there, right? Yeah. And so on. So there’s, you know, and that’s all of the human race. And it’s about throwing off these shackles. Realizing that there’s been a serious spiritual devolution taking place, very much as people like Goethe and Schelling and others had thought about, but others as well, like Steiner was a huge, you know, thinker on those lines.

I’m not saying I believe it, I’m just saying we need to bring all the evidence to the table and sort through it. Uh, one other attack? It’s just what we’re talking about right now. So it comes under the heading of true individualism. It’s not that individuals didn’t exist in past historical periods. They did, but they were more suppressed in past historical periods.

Only in the late 19th, 20th century, do we actually are free to express someone could say even later than that. Don’t don’t ever think that in tribal eras, you know, back in Eastern lands or even in Western lands, there was no individualism in the tribe. There’s always been individualism, but it’s been always crushed.

And in those days, it was crushed even more. You had to, you couldn’t walk five miles from your village and all, so there’s a lot of error on that, you know, uh, and it can be, when you read back, sometimes even scholars who should know better try to say there wasn’t any individuality, you know, in any sense back in, say, the middle ages, no, there was.

It’s just that you couldn’t damn well show it. You couldn’t step outside your chains like we could in later years. So we’re all the reason why it’s so difficult for people to make change based on an independent thinking Based on psychic sovereignty and all of the ways you might want to language It is because it’s not the order of the day We’re just beginning to heal.

I’ve said this about the ancestral trauma. We’re in a very vulnerable place where we could end up taking many steps backwards. There’s always that possibility, but there’s also the possibility that we’re in a healing cycle that will gradually continue. And some of the things that we’re seeing, you know, people like yourself working in this movement, uh, since, you know, uh, the growth of the alternative movement, you know, there’s been that, that.

To me, that could be taken as a signal that healing is on the way. I mean, you’d have to account for it in some way with all of this new, great learning and knowledge and people like yourself reading up on these things and then taking it to the world with the latest technology and you don’t see these snowflakes, these socialists or arch socialists and the thugocracy running around looking too healthy to me.

These, these are people who are profoundly biologically toxic, profoundly so, and they’re even intellectually toxic, but their feelings are shut off. One look at the soy boy. And you know, something’s really off there. 

Ronnie Landis: And then that, that in itself is such a brilliant point. I definitely want to make space for a couple of these other directions.

I want to go, but on that point, one of the things I, ever since I did get into the, the conspiracy and truth movement, I did start to observe, uh, The different characters and caricatures that were on both sides, both sides of the, um, the dualistic spectrum. People that are so called good, that are bringing in the truth, but then looking, having to move through all those, that whole rabbit hole of different characters to, to ascertain You know, not just the information, but the embodiment of that individual.

And, and, and what, you know, like there’s, there’s a lot of people that are, that are, you know, obviously not very healthy. And then there’s others like yourself and other, other people that actually take this very seriously and actually embody the information. Um, and aren’t just kind of mentalizing it, but are, uh, and just kind of writing off on passion, but are actually taking this seriously and doing.

You know, maintaining their holy vessel, their holy temple of a body. And then I look, but then on the other side of things, the so called, uh, oppressors, um, and the people on that side of the spectrum, when I look at those individuals, we can even just take it down to earth and just look at the politicians, right?

When I look at them, it’s, it’s atrocious. From a health perspective. It’s like, I always felt like if you put a colon hydrotherapist into the white house and you gave it 30 days and gave everyone a colonic and maybe a green juice once a day, we would have a completely different political system entirely.

But because, because like you said, people are not feeling The policies or the politics of the day persist and people just continue. The more people get into that, that I don’t want to go on a ramp, but I just know, I’m just like, I’m thinking of like Barack Obama or Donald Trump or these different characters.

They look completely different before. I’m thinking of Barack Obama in particular, before he went into office, he looked like a completely different person, but a year, two years into it, you can see the stretch marks on his face. You can see the stress marks. You can see like how absolutely, um, Uh, just toxic.

That whole, that whole thing is on the individuals that are within it.

Michael Tsarion: And it’s also true for a lot of the British politicians of antiquity and whatever, you know, many of the, uh, generals that served these people, I have this, this is absolute fact, absolutely despised, you know, coming from the four corners of the empire back to Britain. They actually didn’t like it. This is true for Lord Kitchener and Lord Sykes and all these guys.

They hated coming back to have any interviews, you know, in Parliament or in the White Hall because of the utter, utter drunken sodden state of these ugly, hideous monstrosities. You know, they’re out there, their generals are out there riding their camels and their horses and being very fit and being out with, with military types.

And it’s on record in their memoirs, if you read these, that they loathe coming back to these stodgy cigar stinking brandy soaked. Assholes, you know, and, and of course they’re decadent and look at Brezozinski. Look at Rockefeller. You know, when you see pictures of that type and many of the others, they look demonic.

It’s rancid. It’s really, really bad. And I’m, I’m a believer that these people are Unwell, you know psychologically and in every other sense, and although you might see pictures of Bush jogging, you know, Camp David Or all this nonsense or chopping wood, you know, and everybody knows it’s just total lies You You know, it’s absolutely, it’s absolutely not true, but I think that when we talk there about the historical action of the suppression of individuality, don’t forget that there’s also on the ontogenetic level, the suppression of individuality in the family dynamic.

So it’s both historical and then it’s, you know, you got to jump through those hoops. And so when you follow the will of others to that degree, and of course, when there’s a child, that’s what we’re talking about, child is a prisoner of childhood. You don’t have a choice. After 18 years, 20 years of following the instruction of other people, and most of it against your own personal will, you are now so smarting with hatred, you know, and also self sadism, because you’ve also suppressed your will to fight back.

So there’s a whole psychological cocktail that also leads to ill health, because now that you’re absolutely maxed out with self criticism, with following the will of other people, you don’t even have enough will to take care of your health. I don’t even blame a lot of these people, because I see what’s happened.

Your will has so been crushed, so deflated, so misguided and sabotaged that I don’t think people even, you know, so it becomes a catch 22 situation. I need the bioenergy to awaken my bioenergy, but, but I, I don’t have it. Well, that’s why I point people to nature. ’cause you won’t have it if you remain within the culture that catch 22 situation probably.

’cause where are you gonna get the inspiration from this, from deep down inside? When I say bioenergy, I’m speaking about rike. I’m speaking about a, a, a, uh, cauldron. I don’t know what the term is in, in, uh. Qi gong anymore, but it’s the stomach area, you know, there’s a cauldron there It’s like take a card 14 of the tarot.

There she is with a That’s where the mix comes. That’s where the, you know, the lightning of your being is contained, but you’ve let all the other wills direct you. This is really a matter of will. This is really a matter of will. And if you want to get to find that cauldron of bioenergy within yourself, I don’t think you can go back to the society.

That’s the problem. The Midweld is the problem. They only suppress your will or hand you some fictitious, fallacious idea of health. You know, where the, Jogging and the working out on those idiot machines, right? It’s nothing about the real thing at all. That’s very different. Uh, so when you go to nature, though, you start to, uh, that, that what nature is a spirit and spirit is taught, talks past your consciousness, past your intellect, as I say, into the feeling mode.

And it speaks directly to you and starts to awaken the need for you to start breathing differently. And when you start breathing differently, guess what? From that cauldron of life force, it Percolating up from it, it starts happening. And then you’re going to say, I don’t think I want to live in this fucking cul de sac anymore.

See, so one thing leads to another, and you go, I want to be a little bit closer to nature, maybe have a better garden, or even maybe move out to a village or something like that. So, and then, or walk on the beach more. And see, just by having the sand under your bare feet, and I mean bare feet, see, we walk on nothing but flat surfaces.

All the buildings, all the office blocks, all the streets are flat. Do you know how bad that is for your posture? Do it, do it for long enough and then go on to take your shoes off or even with your shoes, walk on uneven ground and you’ll find you’re in agony. You can’t do it. Your body’s lost it. So flat surface, I mean, you ever thought of this, but I am a big believer.

The flat surfaces are absolutely toxic. You’re not meant to walk on them. And if you do it too much, you know, somebody bringing the groceries home, you know, and then a little incline up to their house, they’re staggering, sweating and sweltering. And they’re going, I didn’t realize it was this unfit. And it’s not just unfitness.

It’s the fact that you are, you’re kept in this, uh, concrete and steel and very flat surface. Well, you got to think this shit out. It affects your calves. It affects your ankles. You see, you start getting ill and diseased from this because what’s your, if your foundation is bad Upstairs is even worse and then upstairs.

It’s all goes out of kilter So walking on beaches walking in bare feet, even if it’s only 10 minutes a day putting your bare feet on grass It’s easier to do in america because it’s warm, but you know, this message goes out to even You In places where it’s not. Try to do that. Try to get onto uneven surfaces and put your bare feet on grass.

on stone, on sand, and on uneven surfaces. And that already is going to help you transform your insights. 

Ronnie Landis: That’s such a powerful point. And, um, I know that from personal experience, that’s been scientifically shown just the anatomy and the physiology of the body. I actually had a healing experience.

experience when I had a multiple knee surgeries from my prior athletic career. And um, I did exactly that. I learned about grounding, getting barefoot on the earth, getting the, the ionic electrical connection from my foot, the K1, K2 points in my feet, the bio, the bioenergy essentially connecting to the Schumann resonance of the earth, which is what’s feeding everything and getting more of a magnetic.

Pulse to the earth connected directly to my body and not just, not just that perspective, but also walking up hills. Because as an athlete, I was running on flat surfaces most of the time. And I didn’t realize the damage that that was doing to my joints, into my hips, into my knees and into my neck, even all that translates all the way up.

And once I started to get into nature, And also with the nutritional, um, adjustments, I, I healed a seven year knee injury in 30 days and not, not just that, but I also became, I just became more alive. I had more inspiration. I, that’s actually what changed me from being an athlete or being like on the athletic path to becoming an orator.

And being a voice for a message because I had my own experience. So you’re so right about that other thing you said, which is those that choose to bring healing to the world tend to have been the ones that have had to heal themselves really. And it’s an initiatory path, right? I think, I think that’s, that’s a perspective I want to lean into going into the next topic, which is so relevant.

Um, is that there’s the, there’s the, the, the, um, there’s like the beginner or the initiate and then the adept, right? The apprentice, that whole kind of archetypical phase of becoming your own, the master or whatever your craft is. And, um, leading into that, I want to just kind of take a little bit of time, if we can, to really talk about the nature of fear.

And the principles of what it takes to adopt a more courageous approach to life. Because you mentioned a number of times about being heroic and people may not exactly know what that means. Or like you said, it may be like this kind of grandiose kind of X extroverted kind of idea. That’s like, you know, Bruce Lee or some kind of like Hercules or some kind of like entrepreneur or something, Elon Musk or something.

That’s, that’s what heroes and heroism is. But in my little life right here, it’s. I don’t really know what that looks like. And so I’d like to, um, you kind of break that into two things. Just what’s your perspective on fear beyond just the nebulous emotion that most people feel it is. Obviously, you know that I’ve been working on a book on fear that you’ve, you’ve looked over, um, and, and really looking at it as like a pathology of the mind, like a psychic infection of the mind and.

Potentially even the soul and turning and learning to turn that, that fear program into courage. So that’s a lot to throw at you, but 

Michael Tsarion: no, no, these are things I think about all the time. I mean, you know, all my work is permeated with those psychological themes. You know, you’ve got, you got fear and you’ve got also, I would say even on a deeper level, more spiritually,

uh,

meaningful is dread and anxiety, right? But fear is. Is mostly a super ego construction, right? So you’ve got the ego and then you’ve got the supervising super ego, which is the voice of society, the voice of the parents steering you to do, right? And that is a moral center. So again, I’m not a person who negates it, I’m just studying it, right?

You know, you, you have to understand the the thing. And so fear is the, is the emotion that arises up when you are guilty and you’re ashamed of not listening to the dictates of the world or the parents via the super ego. Right? So now, but, but with one small Freudian addition, the superego punishes you more than any parent is likely to do.

Not in all cases, in extremely tyrannical situations, the parent is worse than the superego, but that’s quite rare. Actually, usually even in a hectoring, you know, miserable, tyrannical parent, because you’ve embodied that voice, your superego is like, it sort of turns it up to 11. It’s always buzzing. It’s always keeping you, you know, this way and that way.

And so the super ego’s voice is so frightening to you that that’s where fear comes from. And so what it does is just, it keeps you on track, following the dictates of the non I, or the non will, because we said all about boils down to will all of this has to do with subversion of your will. And then there’s dread and anxiety that are much more existentially based.

These are ontological states in which we all have to be human means to have dread and anxiety, you know, and we don’t want to get into, it has a lot to do with time. Uh, those things are emanations not of parental hectoring or anything like that, or not, not living up to standards. That’s called ontic, you know, that’s the ontic level, like the worldly everyday level.

Dread and anxiety come from what’s called the ontological. You can’t be human without, they’re fundamental, and they have to be, they have to do with the nature of time. But I don’t think that’s what you’re asking. Uh, one more thing to say about the, the, the fear is that, uh, I think that, uh, you know, you know, the, you know, where people start with the gateway, they’re called the gateway questions.

Who am I, you know, where am I going? What am I doing here? Who the fuck am I? You know, those precious philosophical early questions called gateway questions that open you up. But when we are asking those questions, who am I, where am I going? You’re asking vocational questions that ask you to jump over the crevasse.

So there’s, there’s fear already in those questions, by the way, you know, and that’s why there’s so much recoil from philosophy, you know, down the line. People go try to live an alternative life and then either for one or many reasons, you know, they, um, they fail. But say, say, say, let’s take it this way.

Let’s go back to a more of a physiological sort of look at this. All that master slave dynamic that’s between us and the elites, or even with, you know, institutions, the IRS, whoever, right, whatever institution, whatever, wherever the dynamic of master versus relationships, but what I have gone blue in the face trying to, you know, explain is that the master relationship, the master slave relationship is already active eigen well, between you and your body.

This is what nobody seems to get. What they can learn, or at least now they’ve learned to recognize it, sort of, you know, well, yeah, I guess it is in this, you know, with my government, my society, and, you know, various things. Or I do realize it does enter into, you know, parental relationships with children, or with, you know, loved ones or relationships.

I think, you know, that’s sort of like almost psychology 101. It has to be accepted. But there’s still tremendous resistance and tremendous ignorance. That the fact is you have embodied within your own relationship with your body. And when you do that, when you instigate a self sadistic relationship with yourself, fear is also going to be one of the results because it is a, it’s thrown up because it’s like the body’s way of saying.

You know, and maybe this is like fear slightly different from what we, what we expected, but where I’m trying to go is that when you fear shark, right? Like jaws, right? Or you fear the boogeyman under your bed, or you have a fear of something or fear of swimming and water, right? Or I don’t want to go into the forest because I know there’s a lot of grizzlies there, right?

That’s all sort of semi rational. Don’t you see that you also must fear those shadow aspects of your own being, aren’t they? Ghoulish, spectral, and frightening. You’ve been taught to fear legitimate aspects of your own self that you’ve never actually met and encountered. They’re lurking there in some place, right, kind of, kind of thing.

And so fear can arise that way as well. So, and one thing that one will have to do in nature is face that fear. How many people can go out, sit in the log, say, you know, like the Pacific Northwest, right? There’s nobody around. And you go to the forest there, sit on the beach, and wait for night to fall and stay there all night.

I don’t think many people can do that. They’d be scared shitless. Of what? Of nature, of your own body. So that’s where I’m going. Nature and the body are one. So you, if you go and sit in a forest and try to sit there all day, and then you stay there all night, you’ll be, you’ll be in a petrified state. I guarantee it.

That is what I’m talking about. So you’re walking around in the sunlight, hiding in the light. I’ve said this many times. Society becomes You know what, you know, it’s, you know, it’s, you know, it’s a gulag, you know, it inwardly, you know, it’s a, you’re incarcerated, but you’re, you’re hiding in the light, the bells and the whistles and the bright lights.

You know, we have touched on this in several articles and what have you, and so this needs to change. And until people go back to nature, you know, and our whole comportment towards nature and animals, you know, to the weather and all, we’re not in discourse with it at all. You know, there’s a solstice happening right now as we speak.

How many are even aware of it? Right. So, you know, one year has died and it’ll never come again. Another one is beginning right as we speak. You know, have you sung a hymn of praise to the year that has gone and never will come again? Right. No, you fucking have it. You’re going down to Macy’s and buying a lot of junk to stick under the Christmas tree that nobody will even fucking want.

That’s what you’re doing. You see? So, and yet the tree is the tree of life. We have it. We’ve got the, we’ve got it all around our knives and forks. Our floral designs, our ties, our clothes, ladies dresses, uh, the tea cloths. I’m looking at a pillowcase, but you’ve, you’ve controlled it. You have it where it doesn’t hurt.

You have it where it decorates your insanity. It decorates your incarceration, the fucking world of the smiling depressive. No, no. I’m talking about the real thing. Go out there and sit there, go up to Yosemite, you know, go out to Iraq. You don’t even have to go to exaggerated places. Go just down to the local park, even, you know, look at the sky and that’s where fear comes.

You know, there’s a fear there because you’ve, you’ve, you’ve hurt yourself. You’ve hurt nature. You’ve, you’ve, you, it’s like a, it’s like parting from a great friend, you know, or selling them out or something. You’ve literally committed crimes against yourself by way of, of this, uh, you know, uh, this embargo that you’ve put on nature and you smart inside from it, you know, you’ve done bad, you know, you know, you should be smelling the roses.

And so I keep coming back to that, you know, in Sherlock Holmes, in one of the great books, Holmes is leaning out the window and he goes, what a beautiful thing a rose is. And Watson goes, yeah, I know they’re beautiful. He goes, no, no, but I’m thinking of the fragrance. It’s an extra. Nature even provides us an extra.

It’s, it’s, it’s overflowing with beauty. It’s not just the, the, the beauty of the flower itself, its color would have been enough. It’s gracefulness, how it turns to face the light, naturally, without ego, without, doesn’t have a consciousness. We said even this aroma, nature is so bountiful, and yet we are in poverty, in every sense of the word.

Ronnie Landis: Wow. Yeah, I can’t remember if it was Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung who said it, but the treasure that you seek is in the place you least want to look. Right. And when you said that we’re hiding in the light, I couldn’t help but laugh. Cause it’s like, I, you know, it’s so funny. And it is true coming from, you know, being, being immersed in different natural environments of Hawaii or different, you know, different, different semi tropical environments or wherever else in the world that I’ve, I’ve been, there is a differently, a different tone at night.

And there’s a different paranormal experience, especially when you are in nature, you definitely feel that there is a spiritual influence for sure. If you didn’t catch that, um, before it went dark and there is this avoidance of the dark, right. And, and, um, so that’s obviously a long topic. I, um, Oh man, it’s like you, you, you really hit on some really key things right there.

I mean, maybe just kind of hitting on that, that point that I brought up from that, that quote, because that really. That really symbolizes, I think, where I was wanting to go with the question ultimately, is like, what is the, I guess it is, what’s the aversion to seeking the treasure that we know is in the place we most want to look?

And even when we get deep down into the process to that point where we can see it, we know, some of us in our, you know, our journey, we get to that place, that place where we can see it and we know that it’s, it’s right over there. But we have almost like an aversion. There’s something in us. That’s like trying to turn us away From going into the dragons the dragon’s lair, so to speak.

Michael Tsarion: That’s right Uh, can you give me one second? I just want to turn the heater on absolutely be right back

Ronnie Landis: We’re going deep ladies and gentlemen 

Michael Tsarion: Yeah, well, it’s, uh,

uh, it has to do with the hemispheres of the brain. We’ll get into that in a minute because, you know, and it connects to Gnosticism as well, but um,

they, they, they’ve known that, well, see, we were, we’re creatures of language as well. We said about hiding in the light and, and I think I hold by that, you know, this is the situation. It all comes down to, you know, our, our block. Our block with nature and that nature is no really longer, you know, in a poetic and, uh, spiritual way.

We’re not engaging with it in a holistic way. There is another more neuroscientific explanation for what you’re asking. And that is the fact that we are divided. You spoke about this just a minute ago, but we’re also divided in the brain, so to speak. And that means we’re, we’re two people in one. We have the right and left hemisphere and all the latest neurosciences is actually confirming this.

They know how they work together. There’s been a lot of science on the bizarre of the holographic, holotropic, you know, uh, nature of the brain. There’s a lot of working together from full sides, but they are still two sides separated. So some neuroscientists focus on the non separative, you know, aspect and others go, look, there still is a divide, a corpus callosum, and then two sides.

You have to keep, you have to factor that in. So depending on what book you read. You know, there’s kind of two schools, right? But we don’t want to get into all the details. We just want to point out something very interesting. And that is that the right brain is the place that maintains the original connection to nature.

Like the, you know, the one that’s been for thousands and thousands of years. And for me, it’s the left brain that, uh, although not completely disconnected from that has sort of grown away and it faces the world. Or allegedly faces on the world that is, you know, sort of in front of us. Like a bird needs to, or a lot of animals, but let’s just take a bird, it needs to focus on the, you know, if it’s on the beach and it sees all these stones, how does it pick out a seed from all those stones?

They all look the same, right? Like a seagull or whatever, right? And then as it’s picking on the food it needs for its survival, it has to have one eye on the predators all around it. So the brain developed in this way. Whereas it hones in like a, you know, a lighthouse focus, like a laser onto what we need to first survive in front of us.

But it also must keep one eye on, on sort of, you know, what’s going on around the background. Because we’ve been talking a little bit in the past about our ability to conceive of a whole. You never actually really can. See a whole you, you merely an intuited or, or conceptualize it. All we are able to see physically as, as is objects, particular objects, but because we see so many of these objects, we get the idea and it’s not an illusion.

It’s a very, very important fact that there’s a totality, not just of the objects, but a totality almost onto itself in which these objects then exist. But it’s paradoxical concept because we couldn’t remove, it can’t be falsified. You couldn’t remove. All the articles of the universe to see if there’s what’s there when you remove them, because even in removing you’re putting them somewhere else, there’s no taking yourself or your, you know, or the objects out to see what’s there.

So then we conceive, uh, and Emmanuel Kant said, Hey, do you realize that in your conceiving of a whole or conceiving of space or something that these objects are in? It’s your mind putting it there. It’s not really there in itself. And nobody had ever thought this before. You see, so it sparked an entire new kind of philosophy, which is still going on today about the fact that time and space are just really, uh, you know, mental projections, right?

Getting back to the point, the right brain is the one that sees the totality and the left brain says the hell with the totality. I’m focused on the reality right here now. And look at what a good boy I am at doing this. Everything you’ve got comes from me, so to speak. But the thing that I was thinking of in regards to all what we’re talking about is that the left brain then is really a sensor.

It’s a lens. It’s a focusing lens. It has to focus, otherwise we couldn’t live without it. But it tends to over focus. And the more and more our society and our teaching and our education, you know, works with the left brain, and the left brain works with it, then we’re living in a world that is dominated by the vision of the left brain.

And that’s where we are now. So, uh, and by the way, just as an interesting point, it’s in the right brain that all your memories of trauma are kept from the first scolding, the first hurt knee when you fell off your bike or whatever, all the way up to the emotional shit, the heavy duty, emotional shit, and still have, it’s not so, see, you know, people say, Oh, you’re talking Freudian.

I am talking Freudian, but I’m also talking Neo Freudianism in which we’re not just looking at traumas you experienced in childhood. Trauma is something you experience all the time. Failure is like something you ask, but this enchantment, right? So it’s Freudian and it’s the essence, but it’s, it’s way beyond that.

Now, when you realize that you’re having these experiences of failure and doubt and shame and guilt right now, anxiety and fear right now. So it’s all going into the right brain. So then the left brain has become a kind of a filter in which we don’t have to look at all of those kinds of things. And it starts to dominate, you see, and people can prove this because.

Look at the art. You see, the right brain is also where the music comes from, where the art comes from, and all the rest of it. Right? Because, because isn’t art having to focus on a totality? Well, the left brain art doesn’t want to do that. So it just goes, no, I’m gonna, I’m gonna paint, uh, you know, an eviscerated corpse.

I’m going to paint a pillow with a cigarette butt sticking out of it. So, you know, it’s just ludicrous. You know, it’s like these, it’s like these, uh, sort of existentialist plays where two women just sit in their kitchen on chairs, you know, waiting for God. Oh, nothing particularly happening. Or they have stage plays this bleak, you know, Samuel Beckett type of crap.

That’s because you know, there’s the, we desire to hide in the light. We don’t even want to face ourselves. We don’t want to open the intelligence of the right brain. You know, and I’ve gone into this in Cards of Darkness series, by shutting down the right brain or by taking parts of it and repackaging them in the sort of way that the left brain presents.

And a language, by the way, has a great deal to do with this. We probably don’t have time to go into all of that. That’s what our language has become contaminated as well. So there’s many, many, many aspects to this, but just in brief, the left brain as a sensor, as a sort of a Berlin Wall, you know, this is then allowing our vision of the world to be very mechanistic, because I even believe that the materialism, per se, comes out of a lot of things that we’ve been talking about.

The people who are disconnected from their body, people who do not feel, materialism works for them every step of the way. You know, they want that they’re urbanites, they’re institutionalized, they work within the colleges, pats on the head and medals and stripes mean very much to these people. That’s never underestimate that hoop jumping is there is they love it because it gets them.

I do this and I get that. You see, it’s, it’s mechanical. That’s why it’s mechanistic. It’s true. I do this. I got an award. I’m a Dean of a college. I’m on, I’m on the newspaper. I wrote a book. I’m a bestseller, right? You know, uh, I’m top of the class. It’s very much. You know, call and response in a very limited, uh, an impoverished sort of way, because they’re making up for the abyss that’s within.

See, some of the greatest philosophers, they weren’t academics, but the academic type, he’s filling his abyss with all of those degrees and those awards and that, that sense of being the big boy, you know, uh, these Dawkins and all running around. And to me, it’s, it’s quite obvious. What’s really going on there.

Ronnie Landis: There, there, I mean, there’s so much that, that could be spawned from that one topic. I’m thinking about, it was hard to connect, to, to find the connective tissue to that, but it’s almost like if we have this. Repository of prior traumas that have been recorded and potentially rehearsed unconsciously, let’s say in the right segment of the, the, the brain and then the left brain is a filtering mechanism and it can only focus on basically the immediate moment and kind of bringing back to one of the things that I brought up before, which is like this, this, this punishment reward, pleasure, pain, kind of cycle that people are in where people are avoiding punishment.

Which could go in a whole different, a whole different, a whole bigger topic. They’re seeking the reward. They’re seeking the pleasure, avoiding the pain. Is it, is it plausible to say that this phenomenon that you’re talking about has a lot to do with that particular, um, aspect? Another way of saying it, just in a very, just kind of obvious way, I guess, for people to understand, is that what I see is that people have a hard time thinking long term They have a hard time focusing on what’s going to bring longterm fulfillment because it’s uncomfortable in the moment.

And also the aging process is interesting because it is a gradual process. You don’t change. You don’t change dramatically in the mirror every single day, but over the course of six months, over the course of a year, over the course of 10 years, 20 years, Exponential changes will happen, but you don’t notice in the moment.

So it’s easy to forego responsibility in the moment and put it off another day, put it off another month, put it off another year. The, um, same thing with the environment, et cetera, et cetera, things that are actually meaningful. It’s easy to put these things off and just focus on immediate gratification or, or preservation ego or pleasure preservation in the moment.

Michael Tsarion: Yeah. So we, we’ve been avoiding talking about time because we were all want to focus on other things, but see part of this dynamic, you know, after you’ve passed through the gateway questions, after you’ve reconnected with nature, see, none of this is really that hard. It’s just a umwelt, mitwelt, eigenwelt must be in harmony.

So what I’m always talking about has an existential component. Uh, we left out time because time is really something that we think is clock time, you know, of the mitwelt that there’s a, there’s a calendar, you know, you were born and then you die and all that, it’s all formal. Formal versions of this. But of course, anyone who’s starting to do the holy work, whoa, they know that my development is vertical.

No clock really maps it right. It’s like we were saying the clock that we know maps your vocational, so your occupational and your recreational life. No problem. Yeah, but when it comes to your vocational stepping, sorry, or your creative or your creative life, right? It doesn’t work but where I want to go is more deeper than that and and will it will it get to the heart of one of the Pathologies one of the things stop because remember I’ve always said from architects of control onwards If you find that the human spirit is not following its destiny and rising, it’s because there’s something in the way.

I believe all human beings already have the wings. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have an imagination. So why are we not flying? It’s because, as I said back then, there’s a hidden hand of control stopping you from doing it. So that becomes an important, you know, study. But it’s still not the complete solution.

What if I was to take that, you know, a barrier away, what happens? Well, one of the, one of the oppressive, you know, uh, tactics that’s used by the enemy is, is a false sense of time. So getting back to nature helps to unseat. That false sense of time. Time is very different, you know, because you’re watching the clouds pass.

You have a different sense of the 12 hour clock, the sunrise and sunset, uh, and all of that. And what I’m really getting to though is the fact that none of this change in health takes place. Because every time that I have given readings to people or, you know, we have to deal with this issue of their physical health, there’s not enough time, Michael.

I wish there was, but there isn’t. I haven’t got time to read. I haven’t got time to study. I haven’t got time for to work out. And so I’m looking at that going, Hmm, you have a very bad relationship with time. So let’s finish with all, let’s just bracket all the other shit that you have time for and deal with time itself.

It’s now a relationship with time that we found out is the essence of the problem. Why do you think that you don’t have time? Why don’t you befriend time? You’re either trying to conquer it or it’s trying to conquer you. Hey, why not befriend it? Why not greet it? Why not change your relationship with time?

And then you’ll have all the time in the world. It’s the same as, you know, say you make time. So that’s a new kind of thinking and a meditation that people can take away with them. What is my relationship with time? There’s something fundamentally wrong. And yeah, it’s because you were conditioned when you were a child and when you were a child, you see, uh, you didn’t know you were being traumatized.

You are certainly didn’t have the way to really, you know, focus on what was taking place. You might’ve even accepted it as natural. You know, it’s like James Hetfield from Metallica is always talking about his Christian science family and how they fucked them up, but you know, he could have easily become.

Daddy’s golden boy. He’s got songs about this where he just got in line and start dancing with the serpents and not taking medication And then all the other shit that they’re doing he could have just been that kid You know if he didn’t rebel so when you’re a child, you don’t know any different Well, yes, but when you grow up you do and that’s called looking back through time you look back Cause now you have the tools, or hopefully you do, you’ve got some tools.

Now those tools were missing in the past. So when people tell you, Oh, you’re just living in the past. No, I’m not living in the past. I’m making sense of who I am now because I, but I’m using the, you know, the past as my science, like an anthropologist does or an archeologist, I’m not living in the past, I’m not dwelling in it.

I’m using it as forensic evidence to find out why I’m in the state I’m in now. Where else am I going to look? I want evidence. I want, I want the evidence of this crime. That’s been done to me. Well, that lies in the past, but when you were in the past, you know, when you were young in the past, you didn’t have the hardware, you couldn’t conceive what was going on.

You had no choice. You were tyrannized. So that involves time and then looking forward to where you want to be now. Cause you, what we know as the present is the place we plant a seed of what we want to be tomorrow. And, uh, people like Heidegger, the philosopher, German philosopher actually went so far as to say, you only inhabit the present.

By way of the future, you don’t actually inhabit the present at all. You have gone forward into a future and your conceptuality of that and what you’ve made of the future Actually sort of in a weird way reflects backwards and makes sense of the present So you only really know a present by way of the future this changes the total conception of of what we know about time We just talked with Anthony Peake on this weekend on, you know, the daemon and, uh, and he also had a very interesting concepts of time.

But I think that one of the fourth or fifth benefits that when you go back into nature and step outside, you know, your, your commitments to the mitwell is a new understanding of time, which in itself then sends you back into your body where you realize time should not rule me. I should rule time. And then you do have the morning hours to work out.

You do have that hour and it can be just an hour. It can be a very, very short time. It can just be a little stretching or, you know, and mostly, uh, even almost, uh, you know, in your, in your chair at work, you know, you, you might even want to change the chair at work. You know what I mean? It starts very small.

We’re not asking the people to be very grandiose or you want to stand up for a few minutes or whatever it might be. You see? So there’s very simple ways of, of, of checking into this, but what I’m just trying to say on this point is. Do not ever think of time as an enemy get into a whole meditation where you befriend time and lots of changes will take place Just from that 

Ronnie Landis: Very brilliantly said i’m glad you went there because they definitely kind of Sparked that that topic up a little bit a few times before i’m glad we could kind of um expand upon it and one of the things um I just want to uh, one of the things that came up from what you just said is that Um, we’re not talking about doing anything grandiose or extravagant.

It’s it’s about What I got from that is that you kind of shift your own personal identity based on the vision of the future So it’s like the future is actually influencing your present moment But if you’re always backtracking and you’re always kind of like You’re in the repository of the past, but you don’t have a, but it’s not taking you somewhere.

Like, so if you’re only going backwards, but it’s not leading you forward, it’s not giving you information or you’re not, you’re not investigating it like an architect. You’re not pulling out the necessary insights that can lead you to. A greater future and you don’t have a vision for your future. You can’t communicate, you can’t interact with that probability timeline, that possible future awaiting you.

So you just repeat the same patterns, right? Because you essentially just recreating the past because you have nothing to look forward to. And what’s what you would have to look forward to isn’t looking at you, um, so to speak. 

Michael Tsarion: No, it’s true. It’s absolutely true. Because I think that everybody, you, it’s what we said about heroism.

Heroism is having the will to project into the future and be something more that you want to be. But if you’re not, if you’re not connecting to that bio energy that, you know, which is the octane to get you there, it’s all going to fall out. And then you get dejected, then you get this consulate and then you say, well, what the hell, give me that, you know, bad food or whatever.

Right. Because something is being suppressed. You’re, you’re see your parasympathetic system in relation to the sympathetic is to suppress. pain, feelings of trauma, right? That in most people in the West today, the parasympathetic is overused. It’s burned out the trauma inside. That’s not being flushed and dealt with, which has done by shadow work, by the way, by the body, you know that, but people don’t, and therefore they’ve let their, it’s like, it’s like two cogs, right?

The parasympathetic sitting underneath. It’s a very much a sub all of its activity is subliminal, but it’s like an engine room in a ship. That’s burning up and there’s no oil anymore. The steam is just burning. Even the cogs themselves are burned out. And so they start disconnecting from the cogs of the upper, you know, the frontal lobes and the sympathetic system, which now it’s only, that’s only about 30 percent of your consciousness.

So it gets easily flooded with trauma and the great sump, you know, with all the, uh, the engine of, uh, Oil to cool it down and stop the PTSD isn’t working anymore. And so that’s where we’re going even historically. And the big brother knows this and co ops it by more rumors of wars and all the rest of it.

So shadow work will mean restoring the parasympathetic because the parasympathetic system is so banjacks now you need other suppressants from outside because it’s a suppressant, the natural one. But when we banjacks that we need the food, we need the tobacco, we need the alcohol, we need the gossip. We need the other soporifics.

Because we’re in pain. And so the big gulps and the big foods, right. And I’m not saying any of this is bad in moderation, you know, but the thing is that it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s, uh, it’s literally a suppressant, right. And now it’s gone overboard. So the root of it again. Is to get back to, you know, healing the parasympathetic system, which is a complex, you know, sort of subject, but people can read up on it, you know, go to type in polyvagal theory, you know, and parasympathetic and start brushing up on this stuff and then start taking some classes and Qigong and all, they deal with it, they’ve been doing it for thousands of years.

But one thing we did forget, I just remember now, is when we’re talking about the dynamics between the two hemispheres, I said there was a Gnostic connection. Loosely, right? And all I meant by that was the fact that, um, when we cut off the right brain’s intelligence, which links back You see to the ancestral brain, the ancestral knowledge, it is almost, it can be construed as sort of the fallen God, you know, the left brain, which just embeds us in the world.

And we’re, we’re living there materially focused, you know, and everything has to be linear and mechanical and neuroscience is even accepting this. Now there’s been some very major changes. So the part of us that is connected to the great ultimate has been cut off. The left brain does this, you know, so the absolute intelligence, the absolute mind, the Tao, in other words.

It’s another way of languaging what’s taken place. So we’re no longer drawing upon our ancestral consciousness. Now, for Blake and a few other people like Emerson and others, it’s being an artist. You know, Otto Rank would have certainly supported this. It’s getting in touch with your creativity again. So if people find a lot of stuff that we’re saying kind of vague and they don’t really want to do a lot of work on, I would suggest start getting into the body workouts to a degree, but also then back it up by also being more creative and especially if you have already have some creative juices, you know, that were suppressed in your youth, playing the piano or dancing or, you know, painting with oils or calligraphy or whatever, I found this very, very helpful as well, you know, getting in touch with nature, awakening your creative sensibility, You know, and then also working out these three things have to sort of run together because they all are helping to release, unlock, you know, uh, the part of you that’s been locked up by the left brain, the left brain has given us so many benefits.

That’s why we failed under its spell. If you study the left brain, what has given us, it is so overwhelming, you know, the focus, the science, the language, the, you know, all the rest of it, it’s, it’s made our grip on the world in this hyper focused way. So, so lucid. That’s where our engineering and our invention comes from.

So it’s very, very hard to detach from it. All the things that’s created are quite wonderful in one sense, but you see there’s a dark side and that, I mean, shutting down the poetic creative side. And so there’s quite, quite a lot to get into here, you know, as you, as you said, it, but we have to do it. That’s the, that’s the whole thing.

And, uh, I think the fear comes up because the left brain says, don’t go there. It’s full of demons, right? It’s chaos. I’m the light. I’m order. That’s chaos. You see, and we’ve fallen for that. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah, it’s kind of like, it’s also the, the fear of the feminine, the divine feminine. It’s a fear of femininity because it’s, it’s completely out of order.

It’s like, it’s, it’s chaos from a person, from that perspective, like control and order. And then you have like, This like tsunami wave of, of, of emotion, um, which is a beautiful thing though. It’s the creative kind of procreative impulse that brought you and I and every single other person here through the womb.

But there is this interesting thing that I’ve been thinking about, um, when it comes to masculine, feminine polarities and the disconnect. And that’s obviously, Oh, that’s a long, big subject. Um, but this, this kind of conflict between the so called masculine, the so called feminine, let’s just say archetypically speaking, but the way that that’s embodied between men and women, whether that’s a man that’s masculine or not, or a woman that’s feminine or not.

Um, there seems to be this fear of femininity or this, this, um, how do I want to say it? Where I’m getting with this is ultimately a fear of the divine. That’s the ultimate kind of conclusion of this train of thought, but it seems to be, um, kind of representing itself and like this opposition of the divine feminine or that, you know, to, um, yeah, I’ll kind of leave it at that.

I think, you know, I’m, 

Michael Tsarion: yeah, absolutely. I think that in any, uh, Aspiring spiritual aspirant. You talked about the adepts and the ones that go beyond, right? There’s going to be another little conundrum, and that is that there’s the spirit itself, and then there’s your ideas about the spirit. And for a lot of philosophers, their ideas about are, are infinitely more important than the thing itself.

And, uh, you know, some people even argue that from Plato’s time, Aristotle’s time, that’s what happened. We stopped being interested in being, let’s put it that way with a capital B, and we got interested in other things. We got interested in our ideas about reality. Not reality itself. So there’s a whole other, uh, you know, attack then required about sort of seeing that illusion in yourself and, and, and getting out of that, and then getting more into what you are talking about.

The way to look at it is that un, unless you’re living a kind of a heroic life, now this doesn’t mean that you’re running around, you know, madly in a suit of armor. A heroic thing. Remember, remembers to do with the will. The will to leave the lie,

to leave the lie. Is the hardest thing there is because the lie has embedded itself in you. So of course you’re going to need a will this idea that you can retreat to a mountain, you know monastery or Retreat from the world of some, you know, misanthrope all wrong. You need to be engaged with the very problem to know the problem through and through, and then you find the technique of creating out of it.

But in this process, will is required. Um, and the will originates in a mass is, is, is considered masculine, you know, and I, and one can complain about all of this language. Cause maybe we’re lost in the words. Maybe the language is part of the problem. And I think there’s a big case. I think we talked about earlier on that even masculine and femininity, we know it are totally wrong.

You know, uh, the masculinity we know isn’t real masculinity and the femininity isn’t real femininity. There’s that whole question, but separate to that, let’s just go, let’s just use the language as it traditionally is. The will is something, and the heroism is mostly a masculine faculty, but just like any circuit, just like lights being on and off or the day and the night, you can’t just have 100% of one mode, right?

Climbing the mountain, then you have to come down, right? So what is femininity is repose. Femininity is the state of repose of the spirit after its moments of aspiration and achievement and accomplishment. You absolutely need the power of repose, right? And so traditionally speaking, and it still holds up, uh, the feminine, whether it’s in a man or a woman is the principle or the state.

In which the heroic comes to rest so it can replenish itself, right? Right, right the wave rises up and then it troughs you see and there’s it’s a rhythm of life You’re on let’s put it this way You’re on the boat and the and and the boat is on the river now There’s going to be moments Where you can either hear the river moving and you go with it and the river can be either in its masculine mode Or it can suddenly A bait, it can be furious rush, which can make you feel exhilarated.

And, you know, you, you feel that you’re enlightened and touching the stars. And then there’s this other moment that’s part of it. But what has happened in our time is we have said, Oh, the masculine is this. And the feminine is that as if they’re completely split without realizing it’s ebb and flow of the same river.

You know, an idealist would say there is no difference between the river bed and the water. Because one must be married to the other. What you call a river. Equals the bed and the river. So there can be no subject object divide. If the bed wasn’t there guiding the river, the river wouldn’t be a river. And if there wasn’t something to move on the bed, then the river bed would be dry and meaningless.

Right? So light and shade, you know, masculine and feminine, they work together, but we’re been slowly losing the principle and without that Bauer of repose and replenishment, the masculine is dead. Because masculine energy, I don’t even care if it’s in a supernova. I don’t care if it’s in the most, in the sun or a hundred times the sun.

That sun still needs somewhat to set. It still needs to replenish its energy. It cannot just 100%. That’s a lie. That’s a myth. You see, energy needs to be, you know, replenished. And that can be confirmed even by science. But it certainly is the same psychologically speaking. That’s why we even have experiences of, you know, sleep and waking.

It’s just not possible for a human being to go, go, go, You know, there was actually a, a 6 million man episode way back in the seventies on us. And it was actually William Shatner, which is why I remember it, you know, from Star Trek who acted this guy who did have something wrong with his brain. He went through an experience at Narder space and he couldn’t turn off.

And when he came back, I think it’s called burning bright or something like that, the very being that he was, you know, he, he wasn’t gonna live long. This was kind of implicit, but he was burning like a flare. And in this state, he was able to talk to dolphins. I mean, completely, he was open. He could do all the mathematical, you know, conundrums that anybody brought to him.

He had almost an enlightened state. What happened? His brain, his brain exploded. Right. So, you know, you have to have this moments of repose quiet. Ebb and flow, you know, and Tai Chi and these things that, you know, you see the eyes of the dragon, the yin yang symbol, right? There has to be that ebb and flow.

And to me, that’s what the feminine is. So the right brain can be considered, you know, it’s not that you can actually isolate it. It’s, it’s part of a rhythm. So it’s not that one part of you is feminine and the other is masculine. They interchange. There’s a working constant process going on. You can’t point to, that’s what the materialist wants to do.

Point to one and point to the other and categorize it to a board. Man, this thing is a deep synergy, a deep dynamic. That’s our thinking has to become more about process philosophy, what is actually called process philosophy, in which you understand that everything is a process, history, time, your own desires of the future, and then you repose from those, you know, never think of failure as being bad, it’s always good, create a new connection to time, that’s good.

You know, these are the meditations that we’ve forgotten. 

Ronnie Landis: Yeah. I mean, you know, time and space is merely just a concept. So if there is no actual beginning, I don’t buy into the big bang theory. That’s not too far. That’s not too far of an assumption. Um, and this, just this idea of like, you know, we’re going to create a start in a finish when there is no start or any finish.

It’s just a continuity. It’s a universality. It’s, it’s all, it’s, it’s an omnipresence. This is the word I’m looking for. It’s, it’s omnipresent when you, and they, even when I was bringing up the masculine, feminine. I noticed how language was attempting to isolate something that is, that is inseparable. And, uh, it’s, I really appreciate you bringing that point.

I, and I really like, as I’m listening to you, I realized that that is so much of the problem, right? Is that we’re trying to compartmentalize and trying to isolate things that are inseparable, that are omnipresent, that are occurring all the time and trying to divide it in different like categories, instead of looking at the phase, um, Of things the cyclical nature, which doesn’t have a start.

It doesn’t have an end. It just is in motion Even like the present moment, you know, there’s that the eckhart tolle thing about Being in the now but it’s like what now you mean the now from now from now, which now are you talking about? It’s like it’s a synchronistic Continuity and I feel like that distinction for me going back to the whole timeless mind ageless body thing I think like for me and probably for most people that’s a huge You Shift because when I get out of trying to take a snapshot of time or I try to get out of, you know, trying to compartmentalize things that I’m just in the flow, that’s what, that’s a big topic right now in neuroscience is like, how do you get into the flow?

How do you get into the zone? It’s like, well, you just be, you just be in the, the, the, the current of the river of life. Right. And I feel like when we get, when we get out of that or we’re burning the candle at both ends and we’re constantly pushing, pushing, pushing, then that’s how the brain and the The psyche actually can create like a bifurcation can create a split in the right and the left brain hemispheres actually divide from one another.

And then there is this compartmentalization of the quote unquote, masculine, feminine, um, energetically, and also between men and women as a whole. 

Michael Tsarion: That’s right. Language does play a role in that because I think that, you know, the right brain works more with symbols. They’re looking into this. Nobody really knows the truth, but I, I would say that the body intellect connection is a symbolic one.

The body why, why bodies go outta shape and all is because the body is not, it’s not silent, but it communicates in symbol. So as I say, going to nature, trying to blank the mind a bit, and then you’ll start to talk to you. It starts to talk to you in symbols. But the language that we know is only one kind of language, you know, made of grammar, made of words, made of sentences.

And by the way, even if you look at the structure of it, you start to realize something very holographic. I mean, there’s a whole story there that language is definitely not just a concoction of the left brain, although the left brain has. Made a very sophisticated, taken something that existed somewhere else, came from somewhere else, came from a deeper reservoir.

What I mean by that is that letters are symbols. Let’s just cut to the, language is a set of symbols. But the left brain has co opted that, you know, particular tool and used it in a way that, you know, again, as I say, is key to this hyper focused aspect. When we talked earlier about one of the left brain’s way of being focused on the world, language is the way you do it.

Language, it would be, another way to look at it is this. When I talk to somebody, I’m bridging the gap that exists between the me, the I, and the non I, right? You’re the non I, but my language, and you do it to me, so the language then is a way of breaching the gulf that exists between me and the world, or me and other people.

But I also use body language, right? So the language is the left brain, and the eyes, and the expression, and you know, that’s the right brain. That’s why we gesture. And gesturing comes from ancient, ancient, ancient times. Before language even existed, man communicated with the gesture. We know this from cave paintings.

We know this from different sources. We know that dance and music and drumming, you see, was always used as a means of communicating even in land. Tribes would communicate with others through drumming. And it’s even been noted that rather than just being the mechanical drum beats, each drummer put his own consciousness of what he was trying to communicate into the beat.

So it wasn’t just the beats saying, you know, stampede of whatever on its way. Or volcano ready to erupt or whatever. The drum beat actually contained the individual’s own emotional language of, Hey, no, don’t panic or no, this is fucking chaos. We’re done. Right. You know, you could read the drummer’s own input.

You see, this is why we still love music today. So there’s a whole concept here of bridging the gap between the I and the non I. But as I always say, that dynamic, you know, that divide also exists. Within yourself, you see between the split that you’re talking about, there’s been decision, you know, uh, we, we, we are ready.

We’re clearly, it’s a no brainer that there’s two hemispheres of the brain. There’s the split, but the split is an inside and an outside. I mean, you know, the split is irrefutable

and language is one way to get over it. Body language, you know, communication is another way to get over it. And, and I, and I would say that when you move into the more of the adept level, then you have to express yourself in some symbolism, because that underlies. Everything we’re talking about, you know, it includes your embodiment as well.

You know, it includes the invisibility of the things around you by their proximity. You know, people like Dali and Magritte and Escher. Some great art is to try and even just make you aware of the things that you use on an everyday level. You know, like you make a comb 50 feet high or whatever, you know.

Uh, because he wants you to see the comb, you know, we’re, we’re, you know, the door handles, uh, the laces that we tie, you know, we’re oblivious by things proximity. So a great deal of art is to sort of become lucid over these things, you know, and that, that opens and expands your mind and beyond, because as we said earlier, when you’re a human being, and by the time you’ve got the seven years of age, the super ego, which is the voice of the world in your head is now directing your actions.

And just. Based on that fact, that you’ve been forced onto these tracks, there’s going to be deep discontent inside, deep dread, deep fear, deep sense of shame and guilt, you know, all of the negative cocktails, because you’re not living your vocation. And the answer in psychological terms, we’ve talked about neuroscience and body and Reich, but in strict Freudian terminology, it’s, we need to have a changeover from the superego to the conscience.

Right. Because there are two moral centers. And it’s not that you really bash one and, and, and laud the other, but ultimately speaking on the spiritual path, or this is the pivot point that the voice of the superego has to be lessened because it’s also the voice of self sadism. It’s the voice that’s hurting you within, even when the nobody else is hurting you outside.

And if you had a bad relationship with your mother or father, you better believe you’re going to take it into the new relationships. And you have to be very, very conscious of how you treat a partner, you know, so that those don’t creep by and they will creep back. So it’s about, again, an on process in which you’re at least addressing it.

You’re at least aware of it. You see this kind of thing. Uh, but the point is that higher than do you get from the super ego to conscience? It’s another act of heroism because unless you’ve got heroes, you won’t make it. Because there’s one little component of our psyche called the ego ideal, which sits, it’s actually part of the superego structure.

And that’s your friend in need because you can only sabotage. There’s only one pressure point to unseat, you know, the superego it’s, it’s rock solid. It’s tough as nails, but there’s one Achilles heel and that’s the image ideal. It’s actually way that superego got created itself through the image ideal, but the images was mom and dad and all their bloody heroes.

You’ve got to step out of this, you know, and, uh, refresh all your heroic characters. And that will mean going back to literature. That will mean going back and reading the, you know, and these heroes are problematic. They’re not altogether good, but they’re heroic. And you need to get that image in your mind.

And I think people already want to do it. I think the kids are screaming out for it, but they kind of get waylaid, right? Uh, they go more towards a transgressive and a more of a demonic sort of a manifestation of the anti hero. That’s not good either. Yeah, but it’s a mixed bag. I mean, you know, you’re even in the classic Robin Hood, uh, sagas, you know, it’s not just white man, you know, sort of the white hat and the black hat.

It’s an over, you know, it goes back and forth, but, but essentially. This is a key piece for people who are raising children as well. You’ve got to get those heroic figures. And even if they’re complex and problematic, you’ve got to get them in there. The child’s are clever. Children is clever. They’ll work it out.

They’ll work out what’s good and what’s bad, but you’ve got to get those heroic figures in front of them. Dr. Van Helsing, you know, Robin Hood, you know, William Wallace, Sherlock Holmes, the doctor who, you know, various characters in British sci fi. You’ve got to get them involved in that because then the ego ideal now sets new And in doing that, that assists in the shift from the superego to the conscience.

It actually does, because the heroic figure is ultimately working from his conscience. So, so then this brings us now to media, you know, our role in making films or making documentaries, or at the, at this moment, I’m just bringing forth what other people have done, at least that’s the platform, you know, when you’ve got limited resources and whatever, but you can still work to bring forth what has already been created by previous, you know, filmmakers and documentary makers and writers, I bring those names to the fore as heroes, because it will take an active will.

To again, make this a shift. You see, so will will actually becomes a whole study and I’ve done that. There’s a three part premium program on auto rank, who was a psychologist of the will. His therapy, his form of therapy is called will therapy. He’s one of the deepest people to look, not the only one, but, but he’s much better than Schopenhauer.

He’s much better than Nietzsche. And the reason why is this. He didn’t just All the existential psychologists don’t just accept that there’s only the will to power, which is a kind of a raw engagement with like pushing forward. And maybe on a better day, it’s the getting together with another group of people who share the same sort of ambition.

And then the will to power takes on a social mode. They weren’t just talking about that. They were talking about a thing called the Will to Meaning. Right? Right. And that will to meaning is what we’ve been talking about, this whole reviewing of, of your own life. And then, then the coming into balance of the three parts.

You know, iGen, wealth, MIW, and Unw is can never happen until the Will to Meaning is awakened within you. Mm. And I believe that that’s done, you know, through nature. And through study, you know, deep study and so on. What we’re seeing now, and I brought that this out in the latest article, uh, hatred of wisdom is what we’ve got now is something so perverse in our society where yes, it’s the will, the power has made it the society, the culture, but it’s now turning into even a more degraded form of the will to meet a will to power, the will to negation.

Which is just completely an act of dissolution into, you know, it’s, it’s a lower grade of it. It’s the will to power. It’s culture. It’s the crowd consciousness, but it’s like the most lost emanation. I just dissolve my identity, you know, it’s Armageddon. It’s just like, yeah, you know, I’m just dissolving myself.

And now there’s just a raw wilt in the gate. So any logical conversation, you know, Jordan Peterson or Stefan Molyneux, forget it. Nobody’s listening. He’s just, they’re just preaching to the choir. The rest of them go, yeah, you motherfucking white man, you know? So it’s just, you see, you can’t, there’s no argument anymore.

The platform has rotted away. They’re, they’re drowning. You better save your own ass and get on the dry ground and just let them draw it, because they want to draw it. The will to negation is the pulling of the final, it’s the red switch, isn’t it? Kalmar, right? And explode. They’ve given up the ghost. So trying to get in there and fix it, like some people are trying to do, not, not, not going to work.

Not going to work. We have, we’re arriving at a sort of a, a, we’ve passed through an age of despair. You know, you’re talking about fear. We we’ve moved through this. We’re in an age of almost annihilation now, and that’s okay. In unjust things need to perish. I’ve been saying it from day one, don’t get in a prop it up.

The thing must die. Where’s the silver bullet. It’s part of the age of revealing thing that I, you know, released many, many, many years ago when we talked about Pluto and I use different languages. Some of it was astrological, but that doesn’t mean that this just can be seen from an astrological point of view.

It’s psychological as well. It’s sociological. We’re in an age of revealing where masks are coming down, where people’s true face is being seen. I’m a lot of people don’t like. To have that mask on, for themselves to see who they are, or for society to see who it is. Well, too bad. It’s going to happen anyway.

And we’ve got to be okay with it. My statement to the world and my audience, is that, look, it’s a grey area, it’s cathartic, it’s good. Let it happen. Don’t try to cover it over again in the solar way and hide again in the light. Let this decay take place. I know it’s hard because it may be happening right in your family.

Probably is. Happening at the place of work is might be happening on the political stage. It is, but out of that comes archetypal characters, you know, people in politics and whatever that facilitate somewhere on the dark side, somewhere on the light side, but it’s all good because it’s returning you to sovereignty, helping you to review what your commitment is to the culture, but also what your commitment is yourself, your parents and other people have forced you into just being a worker around for the hive.

And you’ve entered into a kind of a hive mentality because of it. And I’m, I’m against that. The time comes like the femme, like you’re saying, the divine feminine is to pull back and repose and regather yourself. Centroversion, you know, is the term I use in my books. And that I think is absolutely crucial because now you’re going to bring meaning from within, as opposed to waiting, you know, for the world to give you meaning.

Those days are long, long past. And if you don’t know how to bring meaning from within, you’ll, you’ll implode into despair. And then it’s a dejection. Wow. Big brother will eat you up with the pharmaceuticals. You know, you’ll have no choice but to turn to big brother for the very final, you know, coup de gras you’ll turn to big brother.

And that’s what they’re hoping for. They’re hoping to pull the rug so bad that you’re so passive and docile that you just come for any governmental system with George Soros’s picture, right? All, you know, like a big brother save me from myself, save me from, you know, uh, you know, I said freedom from freedom.

That’s where most of the human races have. 

Ronnie Landis: Wow. Well, let me just take a breath on that because you so, you so perfectly tied a bow on the entire conversation and pretty much every direction that we took. It’s a perfect place to conclude on. I think people are definitely going to need to need to go into a little more receptivity, more of that feminine principle and take this in because there’s even in this moment I’m taking this in.

Um, it’s a perfect place to conclude on. Um, wow, that’s, that’s. That was literally the perfect way to, to, to conclude this, this entire conversation. Oh, you’re on, you’re on mute, Michael.

Michael Tsarion: I agree. I agree. And I’d add one point, people should pick up a tarot deck, you know, work with astrology, work with the divination arts.

When you move it, like I said, when you move across this crevasse and you don’t have people of the world helping you far from it, maybe even condemning you. Well, there’s other, there’s other tools. There’s other age old tools created by the Egyptians, created by the Druids. You know, going back to nature means also this.

Cause as I said, the body, right, uh, in my tarot work, there’s a section on, you know, the body. So when you pull a card, it even gives you the medical, you know, sort of description there to give you some pointers as well. Come up with this study divination. Don’t don’t go on a cold Turkey, 

you 

know, set a new foundation.

Yeah. See the feminine, the feminine means the sweeping away of the old. That’s it. It’s part of it. It’s repose, pulling out the roots of the old and burning them up and don’t burn them up in scorn or hatred or burn them up saying that was the life I was. That’s the, that’s the false self. I throw the mask into the fire, make a ritual of it, do it with love.

Because that was, that was this, you know, uh, Tennyson said something, he says, we, we, we step, we, we, uh, we step, uh, yeah, we, we move on stepping stones from lower to higher things, you know, from our higher selves to our lower. It’s like you’re crossing a river on these stepping stones. Don’t, don’t despise the road on which you’ve come.

You’re up here now and you’re looking back at the road, but love the road that you’ve come on, even the ignorance that you were in. You see, and, and the feminine is letting go, cathartically saying, I shed this, I shed this persona, I shed this skin, but I lay it down with love, I thank it for what it did for me at that time, and I’m here now because of it, and then you start laying the foundations of a new, you know, self.

And that’s the masculine. So, you know, uh, and, uh, ask people to come over to, you know, Dragon Mother, read the articles on michaelstein. com. There’s a lot there. And especially read the inner zodiac article, you know, for people who are looking for tools and they’re making this crossover. The divination arts are monumentally important in this exact sense that we’re talking about.

Not the woo woo sense. I agree that that’s just charlatanism, but there’s a very other great purpose for those divination arts. You know, maybe we can also, you know, talk about that at another time, but we certainly have you on next week. Isn’t that right? Uh, uh, this week, uh, yeah, so that’ll be really interesting as well to hear more about your own journey and all of this, uh, Ronnie, but thanks again for today, mate.

Appreciate it. 

Ronnie Landis: Absolutely. Thank you so much and all the brilliant, timeless wisdom that you’re bringing forth in a life, literally a lifetime of study, research and application. You so beautifully embody this in a way that very few people in this, this movement do. And that’s why you’re still at the, at the head of it.

And I just really appreciate you. And, um, Appreciate that. And definitely encourage everybody that’s listening to this show that’s watching this video right now. Um, your, your podcast with David Whitehead, unslaved. com is, is essential. If you guys want to go way deeper into this, I’ve, I’ve, that’s really what got me so much deeper into your work.

And then eventually I studied your older work and a lot of the, the, the lectures and interviews that’s just flooded all over YouTube that goes into, um, A lot of different dimensions of everything we’ve talked about things way beyond what we’ve talked about as well Um, so I highly encourage everybody to go to your website go to unslave.

com as well Go on youtube check out all the information there if you’re just new into Michael’s work and again, thank you so much for joining me

I hope you enjoyed this fascinating episode of the Holistic Health and Human Potential show. Before you head off, I want to invite you to go to my website for further podcast episodes and tons of free content on Holistic Health, Natural Nutrition, and Human Potential. Please go to www. ronnielandis. net to find out how to take your health and your life to the next level.

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